Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I have begun converting the map to creative commons images to get a pretty full color version of the map.
(Spoilers, obviously.)
Map?
What do people think?
(There are some tool artifacts in that image, those will not be there obviously...)
Tools:
Maptool
Tiles:
http://www.fantasticmaps.com//free-stuff/
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Hmm... I was able to get a little more contrast, but the problem is that to get more, I would literally have to rework the entire wall texture set, and I just don't have time for that. Since I was planning on cutting out the rooms, and placing them individually, I don't think I am going to have an issue with it.
Link above now points to the 3/4 complete conversion. And if you knew how proud I am that I managed to get a wall segment curved, you would understand just how limited my command of these tools really are... :)
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Strangely, because of the tool I am using, I don't get as much benefit from that as I hoped.
That said, I am planning on just printing it out twice. I only duplicated it in the map as a favor to people using the map as is.
Above link is now complete except:
1. Adding statues. I usually use custom Pawns for statues. (Usually I just find a picture of the creature depicted, and desaturate the color.)
2. I want to go through and add furnishing (torch sconces for example) but that is going to require a closer reading.)
3. The river of Goo. I am going to add that in gimp, where I can mess with special effects.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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So I am noticing a lot of "This Lock is not Pickable" and "This spell is not Dispellable" Is anyone else anticipating a certain level of frustration from players when they are told "No, the skills you took to bypass exactly this sort of thing cannot bypass this thing."
Further there are a lot of things that seem to only be set up to be solved in a single specific way, with no margin for clever solutions.
There is *no* perception to see the button without being struck and taking damage. There is no AC or acrobatics to hit the button if the gauntlet misses you (let alone to let a uber archer hit the button with a blunt arrow.) or to use telekinetic finesse, or etc...
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There is a check before it starts going (but i don't think you can turn it off before it starts... maybe make it a disable device check before it activates)
"Those inspecting the statue can attempt a DC 20 Perception skill
check to notice that there is a seam around the waist of the
statue and the arms look like they might pivot. Anyone who
beats this check by 10 or more can notice that on the back of
each gauntlet, shrouded by energy is a matching gemstone
that looks almost like a button."
but yeah, I see what you mean about resolution its only be hit and then fix it...
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I just played this under Mabgabeus this week. We did a lot of preparatory work via email, such as asking questions, character introductions, and preparations, so we won quite a bit of time there. We ran through this in just over 4 hours, but I must admit we had some pretty optimised players at our table that helped us power through some combats. 4-5 hours seems like a good amount of time to spend on this, maybe 6.
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As a note I'm running it as a pbp over here if anybody wants to watch me blunder through it.
Took us awhile to get through the first room, but they managed it eventually. We'll see how long we spend at the well.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Has anyone thought about what the knowledge local rolls should be for this? Some of the background seems like it should be known
Specifically:
When the Pathfinder Society cleared out the ruins of
this single-floor structure hundreds of years ago, the
Decemvirate flooded the site with resources to transform
it into a ready-made training dungeon for use by new
recruits. Wizards affiliated with Absalom’s House of Secrets
[were employed] to create a truly deadly environment. Too deadly.
the Decemvirate shifted it to a test of
mid-career agents, whom they reasoned ought to be more
prepared after a steady career of dungeoneering.
[It is] positioned as a test and “re-set” for each
group of adventurers that attempts it,
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is there a time limit restriction to this module? one of the things that made Bonekeep really difficult was that they only had the 5 hours of the session to do it (IIRC) and so they couldn't camp basically after each room and were done as soon as they left the dungeon or took longer than an accumulated 5 hours in the session and in-game.
I am not seeing anything in the sanctioned PFS sheet that would really prevent them from camping (especially after clearing a room and then using I don't know, a teleporter to go back one room and rest).
and is this supposed to be a true module and go for longer than one session or is this supposed to fit in a standard 4-5 hour time slot?
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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It should run in 4-5 hours, yes. I've posted above. There's quite a number of combats, but rarely any roleplaying, so you can just speed through.
The way Magabeus (my GM) described it, there's one intended rest-point, but we didn't take it. It does seem like you can rest nearly anywhere, though. You should be able to run through it in one day, unless you're blowing through your spells irresponsibly.
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There is no time limit listed anywhere. Inferring one from a completely different series of scenarios makes no sense.
I ran this with a (mostly) very experienced party for Extra Life. ~7.5 hours, but we were running with a full seven PCs and in an overnight slot. We also speed-waved one or two rooms so we could get to the final fight before everyone fell asleep.
I would guess that (with the crowd I normally play with) it would be an 8 hour slot, but might finish early with an optimal group. All of this assumes first time through. Players that have been through it will, even if trying not to meta-game, be able to make some decisions a *lot* faster.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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is there a time limit restriction to this module? one of the things that made Bonekeep really difficult was that they only had the 5 hours of the session to do it (IIRC) and so they couldn't camp basically after each room and were done as soon as they left the dungeon or took longer than an accumulated 5 hours in the session and in-game.
The time limit for Bonekeep is an out of game time limit.
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We used exactly 5 hours, but the group was very efficient. I also was able to speed up play by doing the following:
- I mailed my players to get their initiative modifier and I created an initiative order for each and every encounter
- I also told them by mail they would get 3 questions each that could be answered with a yes or no. I set up a google spreadsheet where they posted their questions, so I could decide on an answer.
- the players mailed between themselves what characters they would play, they did the introduction of their character over mail and discussed some useful items to buy
- some of the players pro-actively mailed me to discuss weird mechanics of their character, so I could review how that worked and we did not have a rules discussion at the table.
What helped is that my players identified the hazard in room 2 and decided to throw in a thinderstick.... I decided that the enemies in that room were burned by that, so skipped the encounter.
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1) Does the party have to save every round that they are in the room against inhaling the multi-colored gas - Burnt Othur Fumes. or once they make their first save are they good? If not how does that work if the fail the save in round 1 are they now saving each round at a higher DC and then once they save make another to see if they are poisoned again?
2) it says if the party burns off the gas takes 10 rounds to fill room, so do they get 10 rounds to act before saves start again, or do I assume it is a heavy gas and those on the floor need to save almost immediately again - or light gas and those flying need to save right away again?
3) Eye Beams, how do you get close enough to disable device if they go off at 10ft. do they have to do a reflex save to get close enough, then the disable device to disable?
1: new saves each round, remember that they can hold their breath to get a 50% chance of not having to make their saves. Read the poison stacking FAQ for the second part of your question;
2: I would not overthink it: the PCs get 10 rounds to act before having to make new saves, regardless of their position;3: you need to get close by climbing, teleporting or flying, you get to make save and the.n you have the possibility to disarm. You better not fail that disarm attempt, because then you need to make another save...
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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What helped is that my players identified the hazard in room 2 and decided to throw in a thinderstick.... I decided that the enemies in that room were burned by that, so skipped the encounter.
I was the one who thought of that, but now I'm wondering. Would it be metagaming of me to consider the gas might be explosive? The character has an INT and WIS of 12, so above average smarts, but I'm not sure how widely known it is in-universe that some gases might explode. Then again, we were warned for devious challenges, so thinking anything might explode in your face isn't a bad idea.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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1) Does the party have to save every round that they are in the room against inhaling the multi-colored gas - Burnt Othur Fumes. or once they make their first save are they good? If not how does that work if the fail the save in round 1 are they now saving each round at a higher DC and then once they save make another to see if they are poisoned again?
2) it says if the party burns off the gas takes 10 rounds to fill room, so do they get 10 rounds to act before saves start again, or do I assume it is a heavy gas and those on the floor need to save almost immediately again - or light gas and those flying need to save right away again?
3) Eye Beams, how do you get close enough to disable device if they go off at 10ft. do they have to do a reflex save to get close enough, then the disable device to disable?1: new saves each round, remember that they can hold their breath to get a 50% chance of not having to make their saves. Read the poison stacking FAQ for the second part of your question;
Damn..... I missed that there is still a 50% chance... My players should have been in a lot worse shape.
3: you need to get close by climbing, teleporting or flying, you get to make save and the.n you have the possibility to disarm. You better not fail that disarm attempt, because then you need to make another save...
Since it is DC 15, shouldn't that be 1d4 rounds? In any case there are at least 2 reflex saves (One on the round you climb into position, one as you take a full round action to disarm.)
That said, neither of the rogues in my home game trial run had *any* problem with making those saves.
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My group of four just steamrolled through this by the virtue of some strategic pre-buffing. Resist Energy 20 to all four basic elements really took the edge of some of the encounters, and the first two rooms were much easier because of Air Bubble. But what can you do, except congratulate your players for using their spells well.
More interestingly, what do you do when your players go "eh, I'm just going to use my adamantine weapon and whack at a wall or door until it collapses" rather than do what the module expects them to do? I had a couple of instances of this when running, but luckily not all the time (Steel bars in room 6, the narrow wall separating Marza from the party in 8 and the door to room 16). Like only the last one actually skipped what the room was intended to do completely (they did try standing in a column, but took no damage because of the Resist Energy). I mostly just wish there was at least some handwavy "the walls and doors here are build of some special adamantine-proof material/magicked so that they're extra strong" counter to this tactic, because at these levels, you gotta start expecting adamantine.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Fun fact: the door won’t open if they take no damage in the pain room. As for adamantine: I would tell my players that that does not work. Seems the designers coated adamantine doors with a thin layer of iron...
Several of the rooms say that the exit cannot be bypassed. In those cases I would just say "It is magically strengthened and sealed"
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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In the last room, the spinning bridge.
They had identified the trap, and were jumping over the trigger to get to the dragon on the opposite ledge.
So I had the other dragon just land on the triggering mechanism himself. Spider climb meant he stuck to the side of the bridge. Tanky Fighter did not... (Rogue who had previously somersaulted past the dragon to set up flank for himself and the fighter was now all on his own, and ate a full attack. Which scared the pants off him.)
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Okay yeah it does say that the doors are "otherwise (if not completing the puzzle or disabling the traps) completely impassable in room 15, that one was my mistake (I was very tired).
But my general question stands: If the module doesn't say what the walls and doors are made of, I cannot really make them extra strong to stop the party from trying to bash through them, can I? Like it only says that most doors are metal, walls are huge slabs of stone (at least the outside of the building is), and sometimes even gets more specific (like the bars in room 6 are "steel"). I'm more looking to discourage players from brute-forcing solutions without outright making things up that amount to "no, that won't work because of reasons. What no, no it isn't in the module, I just don't like when you do that". I mean this is run as PFS, so I cannot really do that. (If it was a home game, oh boy would everything just magically transform into something really difficult to break through).
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After my experience playing this, and only getting to try 12 of 16 rooms, due to time limitations of a con, I'd say you should expect at least 7 hours for this. If not more...
Our group was:
Cleric 7 (negative channeler, I believe)
Inquisitor 8 (melee specialist)
Investigator 9
Mesmerist 9 (feint specialist)
Combats took a while when only one character was dealing consistent damage.
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Also, has anyone written the letter mentioned in the intro? I am running this at a con and want to have the letter handed to each player when they check in to the con.
Probably a bit late for your November run, Jared, but I just uploaded a letter for the intro to pfsprep here: PFSprep.com Gauntlet files
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What happens is that the GM tells what the character should do, and the player acts accordingly. Sometimes the dominating person/thing gives quite strict orders, other times looser. When I run this, I think I told the dominated player "your character picks up the stone, and tries to take it out of the dungeon, otherwise the stone doesn't care how you act", so they could still contribute to getting out instead of blindly walking into trouble, but couldn't do things like backtrack or stop to rest.
After the scenario the domination needs to be removed, of course, as all continuing effects do. The module itself doesn't seem to take Society play into account, going for the more dramatic "character is taken away until you complete this next quest". But I'd let them buy some domination breaking magic anyway like normal.
Considering that no skill DCs or even the skills for recognizing the Wraithsoul Stone are given, you kinda have improvise on that front. Only thing that the module actually gives is the fact it radiates an evil aura.