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I have read through the scenario, read through this thread and its seems that Mr. Duval intended the 5d6 damage from the checks that failed by 5 or more to be cumulative per failed check.Am I reading, understanding this right?
I believe it is supposed to be 1 per failure, but it is also an hour long ritual, and the types of actions described it seems unreasonable that *all* of the hits would come at once. I would space them out over the in game hour.
IF it had been spelled out that way then I think our GM would have used one of the Sages to warn us that we were making matters worse and to quit our inept attempts at assisting.I actually did have Amenopheus point out that this was a *very* difficult and complicated ritual, and that while help would be appreciated, clumsiness could weaken the ritual, not strengthen it.
I ran this the same way, spacing them out over the ritual for each effect and before others took their actions. Example:
“Crowe decides he’s feeling good about his ability to help set up a ritual and goes around cleaning debris from the area, etc. He moves a magical artifact that he didn’t realize is contributing to the overall balance of flow of magical energies that Amenopheus is trying to set up. Tahari siezes on this opportunity and sends a wave of magical feedback through the room. Everyone takes 3d6 damage. Amenopheus yells at everyone to stop mucking about if they don’t know what they’re doing. Next PC decides ‘maybe I better just assist’.”
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At high tier, there is an expectation that pathfinders will go into scenarios prepared for the unexpected. It's harder to financially afford this if you've min/maxed all your gold into your gear so that, while awesome at your couple of tricks, you're lost elsewhere.
People had negative levels? Totally. That's what that wand of restoration was for. Also...maybe spend some of your own resources on things that will help you or your companions out.
Essentially though, those who didn't like it want everyone else not to like it.
That's just not going to happen. In the words of Elsa, "Let it Go!"
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You do realize that a TPK doesn't mean a Scenario is too difficult or that it wasn't fun, right? I've had some awesome games that ended in TPKs and everyone still had a great time.
Especially with high tier scenarios, TPKs are more likely a result of not having proper preparations or just an unfortunate party composition. If try getting through most tier 1-5s with only casters you're likely to TPK too (color spray withstanding).
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Receiving a spell doesn’t trigger the disease. Being exposed to remove disease or another effect for removing infections with the rarer incurable version can. But as others pointed out the DC is much lower on that version and you should be waiting till the disease is handled before restoring to manage resources.
The scenario’s story telling makes it obvious when you need to start preparing for the big fight.
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Actually, the writer has no official say in how the scenario should be run after their turnover is submitted. They can tell you what their intent was, but final say is in the hands of the campaign staff and developers, who often make changes to the author's submission.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I have run the scenario, and it has been run locally. My low tier run was relatively tame (and a learning experience) and players overpowered her relatively quickly. The second table was much tougher and from what I heard players enjoyed the challenge.
Currently, I would likely give a 4-star review (the Torch thing really annoys me that much among some other choices), but I try to run and play scenarios first.
To be fair, the module does lead GMs toward dealing all the final damage at once. It asks that the GM tally up the failures, and then issue damage. If that was not intended by the author or the editors, then there is some very misleading text in the module that needs to be corrected.
Having said that, I still think the module is OK because a GM who fully reads this will understand the danger and act accordingly to guide the players with good information. The sages should definitely let the PCs know that their help is not needed unless they're good at what they do.
In my game, the GM did all the damage at once, as per the module. We still lived. The fight was hard because we couldn't fully heal before rolling for initiative. However, we did survive and I can't complain.
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For goal purposes, I don't remember the timeline, how long ago was the site abandoned? I suppose it's a stretch to say we 'Recovered an intact sage jewel' since we started with them all. 'Too bad' it was someone else who was malevolized, another goal I need to check off. Everyone we met was already Scarab Sage, to no one to recruit.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
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The site was abandoned around -3047 AR a little before the Song Pharaoh's overthrow of the Pharaoh of Forgotten Plagues, so close to 8000 years ago. More than qualifies for the 1000 year or longer goal, and the site is definitely big enough.
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I have read through the scenario, read through this thread and its seems that Mr. Duval intended the 5d6 damage from the checks that failed by 5 or more to be cumulative per failed check.Am I reading, understanding this right?
I believe it is supposed to be 1 per failure, but it is also an hour long ritual, and the types of actions described it seems unreasonable that *all* of the hits would come at once. I would space them out over the in game hour.
IF it had been spelled out that way then I think our GM would have used one of the Sages to warn us that we were making matters worse and to quit our inept attempts at assisting.I actually did have Amenopheus point out that this was a *very* difficult and complicated ritual, and that while help would be appreciated, clumsiness could weaken the ritual, not strengthen it.
I ran this the same way, spacing them out over the ritual for each effect and before others took their actions. Example:
“Crowe decides he’s feeling good about his ability to help set up a ritual and goes around cleaning debris from the area, etc. He moves a magical artifact that he didn’t realize is contributing to the overall balance of flow of magical energies that Amenopheus is trying to set up. Tahari siezes on this opportunity and sends a wave of magical feedback through the room. Everyone takes 3d6 damage. Amenopheus yells at everyone to stop mucking about if they don’t know what they’re doing. Next PC decides ‘maybe I better just assist’.”
Sure, except page 17 of the scenario reads:
"Track how many successes the PCs attain and how many checks fail by 5 or more."Why would we have to track the failures by 5+ if the damage happened piecemeal?
The word choice in that specific section reads that all the damage happens simultaneously.
If the damage is meant to be handed out piecemeal, then we, as GMs, shouldn't have to track failures by that amount. We should only have to track successes. Those 8 words after "and" at the top of page 17 are what screwed over Marc's play-through (I was the GM).
Contributor
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An odd question for Mr. Duval,
Our tragic Paladin of Osiris wears Gold Dragonhide armor...which has raised some eyebrows at my tables (both when I played and when I GM'd). The only conclusion I could draw was that it was given to him as a gift...by any chance, did you have any story for this that just didn't make the final draft?
(I'm putting my GM credit on a Cleric of Apsu and as such was reminded of this question just this evening!)
Thanks for writing us a really solid send-off for the Scarab Sages!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
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An odd question for Mr. Duval,
Our tragic Paladin of Osiris wears Gold Dragonhide armor...which has raised some eyebrows at my tables (both when I played and when I GM'd). The only conclusion I could draw was that it was given to him as a gift...by any chance, did you have any story for this that just didn't make the final draft?
(I'm putting my GM credit on a Cleric of Apsu and as such was reminded of this question just this evening!)
Thanks for writing us a really solid send-off for the Scarab Sages!
A completely reasonable question. It did occur to me during writing that it could be a bit weird for him to have the gold dragonhide but there wasn't a lot of word count to explain much of what was going on with him and it didn't give him the right look in my mind if he was wearing armor made from a chromatic dragon.
My personal head canon is that during his earlier adventures he helped a gold dragon and received the molted scales as a boon. I have some very slightly sketched out ideas for what was going on with that. One involved stopping a ritual sacrifice performed by some cultists of Rovagug to birth some monstrosity and the other involved assisting a gold fighting an old blue wyrm in the desert, but neither idea made it off my notepad. I'd personally go with the latter if I needed a back story running it. Describing a draconic battle just sounds more fun to me and the scenario has enough creepy already. :-)
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Contributor
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My personal head canon is that during his earlier adventures he helped a gold dragon and received the molted scales as a boon. I have some very slightly sketched out ideas for what was going on with that. One involved stopping a ritual sacrifice performed by some cultists of Rovagug to birth some monstrosity and the other involved assisting a gold fighting an old blue wyrm in the desert, but neither idea made it off my notepad. I'd personally go with the latter if I needed a back story running it. Describing a draconic battle just sounds more fun to me and the scenario has enough creepy already. :-)
Given that one of the Spawn of Rovagug is a quasi-mutant gold dragon already (that I have used in a home game of mine before, in fact), I find your head canon to be something I wish to subscribe to!
Thanks very much, again, for that!
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes
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Thanks Matthew for the answer (and Mike for remembering to post this question). I was one of his players that was wondering what happened.
I would say that since Mike wasn't certain that it was a gift I let it go there...but I was wondering if it was that this paladin saved the dragon somehow (maybe from a sacrifice) that while the dragon was mortally wounded he gifted his scales to the paladin to help.
All in all though, that was mostly one of those moments that make you go hmmm...the actual scenario itself was an awesome scenario. I probably have never seen Mike that exhausted after the scenario...that last fight was truly epic as a player (and has to be mind boggling as a GM).
I am now going to go give a great review of the scenario...need to do that.
Again...thanks for the information.
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Prepping this for a likely pbp run in the near future, having played it during Outpost.
I have a question about the graveknight: graveknights are tied to their armour, but if the party finds Dalla in his crypt they can apparently take the armour - how do GMs explain the graveknight joining the final fight if this happens?
Great scenario, btw!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4
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So my understanding with the graveknight is that she's yanking his imprisoned spirit from Abaddon to aid her and using the memory magic of the jewels to manifest him a new physical form for the battle. So messing with his original body doesn't affect him manifesting, but he also won't rejuvenate after the battle.
Hope your group has fun!
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Question about B3: What is the point/effectiveness of the remove sickness in terms of the scenario.
I'm assuming it doesn't suppress the detection of any diseases - but given that it is followed straight away by a remove disease, I'm not too sure why it is even there. Or maybe I'm missing something here.
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Question about B3: What is the point/effectiveness of the remove sickness in terms of the scenario.
I'm assuming it doesn't suppress the detection of any diseases - but given that it is followed straight away by a remove disease, I'm not too sure why it is even there. Or maybe I'm missing something here.
It also grants a +4 morale bonus against sickened, nausea and disease effects for 10 minutes per casterlevel. So triggering and receiving that benefit can do wonders for those who keep getting into contact with everything down there.
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Right, nice bonus for when they are in area ten and such. But they need to have a disease active on them in order to trigger it to begin with... luckily there was that ghoul swarm earlier.
The third aspect of the trap - the incineration - should only be targetted on characters who are diseased, is that right?
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It's everything that's contained by the wall of force. It's very much an 'airlock' to a 'clean room' using magic.
Now one might wonder *why* a cultist trying to perfect Ultimate Death Plague would want one in their lab, but the answer should be reasonably obvious -- they didn't want to have cross-contamination with other illnesses en route to perfecting The Big One.
EDIT: The above is my 'read' on the situation, if that is incorrect, please correct my gross conceptual error!
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I have yet to run this beauty.
I did all the work, I had it all prepared, I even got a suite so when we inevitably went over-time, we'd have a space to play in... and then the table that showed up looked at what the scenario was involving and what they were bringing and exercised caution by requesting other play venues.
I'd *love* to run Tahari as a 'put-upon' 'workplace genius' 'that's doing the job that no one else can because she MUST'... but I've yet to get a table of it.
...someday... someday... oblivion...
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Some Questions
1. Incorporeal Casters
Aryana Tahari is not the first spellcasting ghost, nor will be the last. However, she is probably the most powerful of them all, and perhaps capable of casting more spells per round than even a Runelord. The burning question in my mind though is, can such spellcasters cast spells while entirely inside a wall and benefitting from total cover?
On this same topic, are people remembering to apply the 50% miss chance / 50% damage rule for incorporeal casters targeting corporeal opponents? It seems like her first move should be malevolence, but then that limits her spells to ones that do not have material components...
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On this same topic, are people remembering to apply the 50% miss chance / 50% damage rule for incorporeal casters targeting corporeal opponents? It seems like her first move should be malevolence, but then that limits her spells to ones that do not have material components...Some Questions
1. Incorporeal Casters
Aryana Tahari is not the first spellcasting ghost, nor will be the last. However, she is probably the most powerful of them all, and perhaps capable of casting more spells per round than even a Runelord. The burning question in my mind though is, can such spellcasters cast spells while entirely inside a wall and benefitting from total cover?
That's new, I thought it was only the other way around (corporeal vs incorporeal). Could you quote the rule for me? I can't seem to find it and I'm genuinely curious about this.
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I think he's just remembering it backwards.
Incorporeal (Ex)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
It only ever states that they take half damage and that spells have a 50% chance to miss them if they have an affect besides damage. It never states they have the same limitation when attacking corporeal threats.
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The incorporeal vs corporeal miss chance was a thing in 3.5e. But in 3.5e etherealness and incorporeality were basically the same. This equivalence was not carried over into Pathfinder.
I recently finished running this scenario in pbp (low tier). It was awesome! Not one to try to run in a 4 hour con or FLGS slot though: it's big and complex.
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The Conclusion writes:
If the PCs saved every sage jewel, the sages are elated, and Tahonikepsu commissions a sculpture for the sages’ sanctum to commemorate for all time the Pathfinders’ role in the salvation of the order. The faction pools its resources
to restore the PCs to full health (removing any conditions and restoring dead PCs to life), and each PC receives the Savior of Knowledge boon.
Yesterday, after a bitter fight, almost all Sages were dead except the lich, while all the Sage Jewel were intact. And 3 of my PCs died in the battle. So RAW, they will come back to life for free, right?
What about the dead familiar ?