Dervish Dance and Buckler


Rules Questions


I know there have been many discussions regarding this issue and I have read a number of them, so I'm not looking to create a new discussion regarding this topic. All I'm simply wondering is 1) if there is any official response or ruling on being able to use the Dervish Dance ability while a buckler is equipped, and 2) if it is allowed, do I still retain my AC bonus granted by the buckler?


A buckler can be used with Slashing Grace, so you can use it with Dervish Dance just fine. You're not wielding it in your off-hand, so you're good. Also, yes, you maintain your AC bonus.


A buckler is strapped to your arm rather than held in your hand, so you can use it with almost any ability that want you to have a free hand. And yes, as long as it's on your arm, you get the AC bonus.


Yes, you can use a buckler with Dervish Dance.
Yes, you get the AC.

Sovereign Court

Dervish Dance wrote:
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Buckler wrote:
This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm.
Slashing Grace FAQ wrote:
Slashing Grace does not allow most shields, but bucklers work because they don’t occupy the hand.

Seems pretty clear that Dervish Dance and Buckler works just fine.

Most of the arguments you probably saw were before the Slashing Grace FAQ, which really put the last nail in the coffin.

Lantern Lodge

The question stems from the whirling dervish class feature dervish dance. Dervish dance relates to swashbuckler finesse. Dervish finesse alters swashbuckler finesse to work with a scimitar when not carrying a shield.

Also the Dervish Dance feat does not work when carrying a shield.

Slashing Grace works because you only need your off-hand free. The other two specifically state they don’t work with shields. Slashing Grace has different verbiage.

So both instances won’t work unless you have the unhindering shield feat.

Looking back through threads apparently there has been much debate on this topic with no clear answer as to what qualifies as “carrying”. Here was Mark Seifter talking about how the slashing grace FAQ doesn’t apply to Dervish Dance and calls out the different language.


I agree with the majority, it works with a buckler, enjoy.

Lantern Lodge

vhok wrote:
I agree with the majority, it works with a buckler, enjoy.

In a homegame you can rule this no problem. But it doesn’t work for things like PFS.


I've never had a problem with it in pfs. show me the ruling.

Lantern Lodge

Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.

While strapped to your forearm you are still carrying it.

Dervish Dance feat / Dervish finesse require you not to be carrying a shield.

Fencing / Slashing Grace use different language stating your off-hand must be unoccupied.


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The entire text is "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand." So bucklers work.

Lantern Lodge

Azten wrote:
The entire text is "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand." So bucklers work.

Please see above why the buckler description explains that having it strapped to your forearm still counts as carrying it (a shield)


"In your off hand."

Grand Lodge

kaisc006 wrote:
Azten wrote:
The entire text is "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand." So bucklers work.
Please see above why the buckler description explains that having it strapped to your forearm still counts as carrying it (a shield)

You're not going to find anyone agreeing with that sentiment. It has been clarified repeatedly that a buckler is not counted as carried in your hand.

By that logic you couldn't use Dervish Dance while you carried a buckler in your backpack.

Edit: On closer examination of the text of Dervish Dance, your logic is also completely wrong.

Dervish Dance wrote:
You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

It specifically only cares if you're carrying the shield in your off hand. You don't carry the buckler in your hand therefore its not an issue.

Lantern Lodge

Yeah I stand corrected lol!


kaisc006 wrote:
vhok wrote:
I agree with the majority, it works with a buckler, enjoy.
In a homegame you can rule this no problem. But it doesn’t work for things like PFS.

The persnicket level for some unidentified difference between the the two to somehow get you different results is well beyond rare even for PFS.

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