Invisible Rogue Underwater, gets Sneak Attack?


Rules Questions


Hey all,
I searched around for this scenario a while before posting this, so I hope I didn't miss anything. We're doing an underwater campaign and I'm playing an aquatic elf rogue. I saw that I could get the ninja trick and master trick "Vanishing Trick" and "Invisivble Blade" which essentially gives Greater Invisibility for up to your rogue level in rounds.

My question is does the alteration to how invisibility works underwater change whether a rogue would get sneak attack damage while invisible?

"Invisibility: An invisible creature displaces water and leaves a visible, body-shaped “bubble” where the water was displaced. The creature still has concealment (20% miss chance), but not total concealment (50% miss chance)."

"Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any)."

I don't see anything RAW that would say you no longer ignore the DEX bonus, and therefore sneak attack, just that you're more easily located. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If your enemy can "see" you, you don't benefit from sneak attack. Underwater he can "see" you. In reality he can see your bubble, but that is enough to know your location, so enough to negate your sneak attack.
You need to find a way to get total concealment to be able to use sneak attack.


Diego, do you have a rule segment to back that up? We're pretty Rules as Written in my playgroup because it stops a lot of arguments. Either something that says you need total concealment or something that specifically negates the "ignores its opponents' dexterity" part of the invisible condition.
I'm fine with using those rogue talents elsewhere (3 talents to use it once a day) but I'd like to know for sure.


Combination of the sneak attack rules from the rogue and dex bonus to AC rules in the combat section:
Sneak attack applies when you're flanking or when the opponent is denied their Dex bonus to AC. Dex bonus is normally denied by being unable to react to a blow.
When a rogue is invisible, the target is unable to react because they can't see the blow coming, but underwater they can see the bubble where the rogue is, and therefore they can see the bubble move when the rogue attacks. Therefore, they can react to the blow, aren't denied their Dex bonus, and sneak attack doesn't apply


There is a few caveats on Invisibility...

The most relevant line is An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment.


I think I'll just avoid it and go with a different ability. Thanks everyone!


on a side note, lighting effects are often forgotten about for sneak attack. Normally there isn't a whole lot of light Underwater, make sure your amount of light isn't giving your opponent any % of concealment, because you cant sneak attack someone who has concealment without the "shadow strike" feat. Unless you have "normal light" or "bright light" (or darkvision/magical nonsense) you cannot sneak attack anyways :D

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