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these are all great! thanks everyone! to give more insight on what I'm doing, is i want to be a tiny telikinetic fox with a sword floating next to me. it just has a fun/ny image to it :)

doc chaos wrote:
Can Chatgpt Stat out characters?

I've had it stat a character for me, but it forgets it after it hits it's token limit. so its kinda moot for playing but great for making a game. you can even give it a point buy limit.

there is a new ai that can hold 64k tokens at a time before forgetting, im going to experiment with feeding it like a one shot campaign that i made and see how well it does. it surprisingly knows a lot about the pathfinder 1e world. but yeah, I'm super exciting about the more fictional aspects of the technology. you can also have chatgpt make a battle grid made of numbers (like a ten by ten with 1-100) with a legend for which numbers corresponds to bad guys, obstacles and you, but it still forgets after its token limit is reached and just removed people from the board when they dont have a turn quick enough.

what ways exist to weild a weapon with just your mind. spells? class features/feat combos? dancing weapon does it, so on a related question, what classes/archetypes/prestige classes do we know can temporarily make weapons dance? i know magi get it at level 5 but cant use it for a while because its +4. any other magic items or monster powers out there?

so yes you can kind of play pathfinder 1e with chatgpt and i spent several hours saving a village from goblins, raised their lair, built a magical farm, and even formed a guild with those I met along the way. but it has some flaws, like long term memory, confusing npcs sometimes, etc. i even asked it to run both kingmaker and rise of the runelords for me and to my surprise it started both games correctly! but then after meeting lady jamanji, it forgot what it was doing, switched am my npcs around, and sent me on an adventure to get artifacts from the mwangai Expanse.

so what's my point? my point is: Dear Paizo, i would give you infinity dollars to develop one of your modules with the chat gpt api to be played all the way through solo with chatgpt as both the GM and the other players. Infinity dollars. :)

and no, i dont want to replace my GM. humans are fonts of creativity and i love that irreplaceable experience, i just want something to causually play on my phone throughout the day to scratch the itch until game night :) plus intrigue and stealth missions are soooo much more fun when your not holding up the game session or having your stealth be irrelevant because of the half orc in full plate walking behind you.... :)

Have any of you had a good chatgpt game experience?

This question is way too hard. How about a quad gestalt Bard, Druid, Shaman, Kineticist with one level of unchained monk to get the perfect gestalt BAB + karate?

I've never heard of Ashtifah! what a cool archetype! Swift Kitsune shapechanger is the feat, its the prereq for vulpine pounce. My worry with the witch archetype is that it might cover up my bite attack if I have to wear a veil right?

Derklord wrote:
This is one of those situations where we need to try and understand the rules, not merely read them. The feat makes the tail strong enough to hold items, and dextrous enough to perform steal, disarm, and SoH with it. So what is missing from wielding a weapon? Being able to put enough force behind an object it holds to make it an actual, damage dealing attack!

A good argument. :) I think the reason they wont let you, rules as intended, is more of them not wanting extra appendages for players, even the alchemist version has harsh limitations built in to it. It just sounds like improved weapons wants to have its cake and eat it too, by not being a weapon and not-not being a weapon hehe

Name Violation wrote:
thelemonache wrote:
Name Violation wrote:

"you cannot effectively wield weapons"

Not even improvised ones. You can hold items. You can not effectively use the weapon. You can ineffectively swing it about. But you can't make useful attack rolls

An Improvised Weapon IS a weapon, hence the name Improvised weapon. A weapon is also an object.

they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient" .


a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

an improvised weapon, is a weapon. hence weapon i its name....

it is not a martial, simple, or exotic weapon. those you can take weapon focus in. not every weapon fits into simple, martial, siege, or exotic catagories, and those are improvised weapons.

improvised weapons ARE weapons with their own rules.

a kitchen knife isnt a dagger, but both are knives.
A butter knife is an improvised weapon, a butterfly knife is a simple weapon (dagger)

I respectfully disagree. it even says in the game definition of improvised weapon "Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat." Using something in combat doesn't make it a weapon. You are simply using a non-weapon as a weapon which is different than it being one. Like grabbing a scroll rolled up and swatting someone with it, its not a weapon its a scroll being used as one. Evident by the existence of improvisational focus feat, you can never be proficient in it like weapons, only "considered proficient:"


Benefit(s): You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls you make using an improvised weapon. You are considered proficient with the improvised weapon and are considered to have Weapon Focus with improvised weapons for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of feats that specifically select a weapon, such as Weapon Specialization.

here is at least one other forum where people constructively discussed this topic.

Name Violation wrote:

"you cannot effectively wield weapons"

Not even improvised ones. You can hold items. You can not effectively use the weapon. You can ineffectively swing it about. But you can't make useful attack rolls

An Improvised Weapon IS a weapon, hence the name Improvised weapon. A weapon is also an object.

they aren't weapons though, you can't take weapon focus as an example (improvisational focus is the replacement). you cant even be proficient with one, not even with exotic weapon proficiency, you can only ever be "considered proficient" .

yes, open to all suggestions :) knineticists are really really strong depending on what you pick. you can basically throw someone's house at them if you were creative enough, but that's another thing I loved about terro, it reins the power in a bit because you never know what you can do ahead of time so there is a lot of making lemonaid out of lemons, and you might get the fire blast vs the fire immune boss, etc.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

just like the title, can mischievous tail attack with improvised weapons?

Evidence for it:
1. MT can hold objects
2. ImpWe aren't weapons, they are objects
3. MT can be used to attack. combat maneuvers (spelled out as legal in the feat description) are attacks.


Mischievous Tail
Your tail seems to have a mind of its own.

Prerequisite(s): Dex 15, Grasping Tail, you must have a tail.

Benefit(s): You can use your tail for all purposes as though it were a free hand, though you cannot effectively wield weapons or shields with it (you can still carry such objects with your tail, as long as such an object could also be comfortably carried in a hand normally). In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on disarm and steal combat maneuvers and Sleight of Hand checks performed using only your tail, and combat maneuvers performed this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity.


Improvised Weapons
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Okay, I think I'm just about done shopping what kind of character I am making, and I'm hoping for some advice on how to sew it together! :) It's currently tri-class, and its feeling a bit diluted and aimless. Maybe a strong prestige class can help make sense of it?

I've settled on a tiny fox thief, that is such a good thief it steals the elements around it (via terrokineticist). I like all the flavor, fun, and twists of the character, but I'm struggling to rein it all in with the multiclasses. The character would dip in and out of fox shape, but predominantly hang out as a tiny fox and uses mischievous tail to steal like a boss.

Core character concepts:
ROLE - melee with the option to shoot on surprise rounds, high rogue-like skills (disable/slight/acro) and magic traps. A big focus on stealth. I want a damage source that is irrelevant to size, like kinetic blast and sneak attack. Reach is good too.


CLASS 1: Terrokineticist - archetype that changes (or steals) its elemental focus based off what ranger terrain you are in. Pure Aether is better for the thief concept, but after reading Terrokineticist it just sounded so fun to suddenly find yourself with a whole other toolkit for an encounter. I love the idea of elemental overflow changing my fur color as I walk into a dungeon or find a fire shrine in the middle of the woods. Really cool RP stuff.
CLASS 2: a trap springer class (so unchained rogue, slayer, trapper ranger, either of the seekers) the popular campaign trait for traps is not an option.
CLASS 3 - one level of Mouser so that I can flank inside enemy squares

RACE: Kitsune for free fox shape, i'd love to do 9 tails some day but no feat economy for it. +Cha or +int depending on how the classes work out.

20 point buy: In fox for the stat array would be either 6/22/14/10/10/16 or 6/22/14/16/10/10 depending. I prefer int in general, but mouser makes good use of Cha


FEATS: For combat stuff, think "square domination." feats that I know I want are:
1. "Redirect Attack" (combined with Mouser it can be pretty powerful, though I'm worried about competitive CMB as tiny, Equality of All trait gives a +2, but the non perfect BAB hurts without feats)
2. Gasping Tail, Mischievous Tail - needed for kinetic blasting in fox form. KB specifically says KBs are never wielded and therefor should be good enough for Kinetic Blade/Whip. Once we get whip, the Fox would be in a sweet spot for the build.
3. Vulpine pounce/swift kitsune shapechanger - this is why people play kitsune right??
4. Lunge (optional) - to help with the foxes reach, but this might be moot by the time I get kinetic whip or something else with reach, like prehensile hair (if I do the rogue that gets hexes)f

I dont need the ranged suite of feats, i only want to shoot things that arent in melee. Tripping would be awesome too, just worried about the CMB. Tiny uses Dex to CMB which will greatly help in that department though.

focusing on rogue with a minor in kineticist makes midgame combat weak, lacking the major support features needed to tackle mid-end game monsters. even unchained rogue seems very lacking compared to other classes, being pretty gear dependant to check things like dr and high ac. kineticist make with a rogue minor, just feels like a kineticist behind on his high level wild talents and gets way less skills but brings major mass damage mechanics. vmc rogue could bring more flavor, but feels dirty and starves an already feat starved build. Esoteric Knight slows down everything, but brings some much needed feat support at the cost of damage. One of the million wildshape classes could bring a ton of needed utility in this build, and I could just give up on kineticist at that point, or just take a small dip in aether and call it a day.

What are your thoughts? What can you think of to help me steal the elements?? Should I just give up and play druid?? :)

Trokarr wrote:
I would also consider having a Helm of the Mammoth Lord constructed for your Fox Shape. That will give you another natural attack to use (I think gore attacks are piercing as well).

Spirit Oni Master would give a gore too, but it would take a precious feat. I'll have to look into the vigilante thing you mentioned, i wonder if fox shape counts as a natural form too since it uses the same mechanic?

Chell Raighn wrote:

Either way… you could take a 1 level dip into Menhir Guardian Monk to gain the ability to use some natural weapons with flurry.

Unfortunately that wouldn't work, the Menhir flurry only works with shifter claws, and shifter claws only work in base form or wild shape form, rather than regular ole' polymorph. But if I did go the wildshape route, then that would work! :)

Trokarr wrote:
Bite attacks are bludgeoning slashing and piercing so you could use them with swashbuckler finesse.

I know, I'm saying if I went with other forms for the purpose of getting more attacks (like claws), I would more than likely need either a full finesse, or one of the feat packs that lets me have more damage types (like feral combat training/snake style, that sort of thing)

Trokarr wrote:
If I were to make a “Firefox” build I would probably go about it a bit differently. One option would be to go all in on elemental ascetic with a one lvl dip in mouser swashbuckler (for weapon finesse and the ability to get into the enemy’s square easier). I would take the fan of flames infusion and use it as a “breath weapon” (since a foxes’ mouth is more hand like than a paw as far as functionality it seems reasonable that the kinetic blast would originate there). The Elemental ascetic flurry of blows can only be used with fists but if a permissive GM allows paws to be used I would go VMC monk to get increased unarmed strike damage and the ki class feature (as well as all the other goodies). Another option is to go crossblooded sorcerer with the psychic and draconic bloodlines. With psychic you can cast while polymorphed so no problem with fox shape there. I would use Burning Hands as my “breath weapon” for this build (until level 9 when you get a real one). I would go VMC wizard for the familiar and take the admixture school for increased damage with evocation spells like burning hands. I would also take the Blood Havok bloodline mutation to increase damage on burning hands and the draconic bloodline will add to that as well. Intensified spell metamagic will also be needed. Flumefire rage feat will up the damage also once you get a reasonable fort save. Those would be my 2 number one choices.

Oh yeah that last sentence literally says no polymorph...ouch. I love all the rest of these ideas though. My first level was definitely going to be mouser. My original plan is an "evasion tank" style character, but i was finding it difficult to actually do damage without sneak attack (pre level 3 at least), and to give the tiny fox a toolkit, it really felt like I needed to do multiclass.

Original rough idea:
1. Swashbuckler (mouser) - Half Finesse, and Cha for int combat feats, combat expertise
2. Kineticist Elemental Ascetic - pick an infusion
3. Flowing Monk 1 - Dodge, Redirect Attack
4. Flowing Monk 2 - Improved Trip
5. Flowing Monk 3 - bonus to dodge based off adjacent enemies, deceitful
6. class??
7. class?? - misdirection tactics
8. class??
9. class?? - swift kitsune shapechanger, maybe osyluths guile
10. class??
11. class?? - misdirection redirection
12. class??
13. class?? - possibly vulpine pounce if I have the BAB

The main idea, is charging into peoples squares and drawing attacks of opportunities away from party members. While in the square I provide flanking and try to get bad guys to hit each other.

Class??? ideas:

elemental ascetic would be very fire thematic and good damage I think. possibly the best idea out there? but i would be limited to just one bite if im doing melee (im sure there is some cool kineticist things I can do as well in melee with that class). most kineticist stuff requires a free hand though. I think Grasping and mischievous tail would work as a hand if it works while polymorphed.

rogue gets me the much desired sneak attack and dex to damage with bite, and rogue talents could get me a few combat feats that I would have taken anyway

shifter gets me shifters edge, waaay better wild shapes, and most importantly at sixth level would let me full attack with bite. would probably drop monk if i went this route since shifters get better AC than monks with their ability to wear armor and keep half wisdom bonus. I would need a real weapon finesse though for this since swashbucklers only allows piercing weapons. very feat starved with this direction

swashbuckler would get me precise strike for better damage with bite and feats which are more than welcome

Paladin is always good, but not very thematic.

more monk is always good, but not very firey, quigong can get scorching ray I guess

Druid would also get me decent spells and lots of utility as well as all the wildshape things, incluing weapon shifting a battle poi or flameblade for the complete "I do fire damage with my natural weapons" package. but soooo feat starved.

Vigilante gets all the best feats and great skills, and could even get combo dependant sneak attack. Not a lot of fire though...too bad I cant "warlock" while not having hands.

I think Crane Style is more important than misdirection tactics, but I've just always wanted to see it in action, dodging a crit into someone else sounds fun. I'm going to chart out how I would do an elemental ascetic and see how that looks while I'm thinking of more ideas.

Diego Rossi wrote:

On the other hand, you can don an appropriately shaped mask after polymorphing and obtain the benefit.

A good point!

Trokarr wrote:
What you want I think is Feral Hunter with the Planar Focus feat. Feral Hunter gets wild shape, and Planar focus feat with the Fire focus grants 1d6 fire damage per 4 levels of hunter.

feral hunter could be really cool! But dang, losing all those teamwork feats is brutal. I wont be summoning much in fox form.

Chell Raighn wrote:
thelemonache wrote:
Makarion wrote:
If you're looking at wildshape, anyway, there's always the Flame Blade Dervish Combat feat. The heal/fire theme also lines up with Sarenrae, and a sun-soaked fox druid sounds pretty interesting!
I really like the flame blade idea, but im not sure it works well with weapon shift. It would turn the damage to fire i think, but it wouldn't become a touch attack, nor get the cha to damage while shifted, would it? I think it only gains damage "type" but doesn't count as the weapon. For example, I dont think I could use weapon focus scimitar to get a +1 while shapeshifted with Shift Weapon. Unless I read it wrong?

This is exactly correct. Weapon shift only applies damage type and weapon properties nothing more. Improved Weapon Shift will applies weapon special abilities, and Greater Weapon Shift will apply enhancement bonus from the chosen weapon… your natural attacks will still be natural attacks, they wont count as the weapon itself.

As cheesy as it may seem, nothing really stops the battle poi from changing your damage type to fire through weapon shift… so long as the poi was lit when you shifted, you would deal fire damage.

It is worth noting though, that generally the weapon shift feat chain is not worth it… 3 feats to gain full benefit of a magic weapon while wild shaped is a heavy investment for a class as feat starved as the druid or shifter.

As I build this, I am noticing that... haha. My best build so far is only 4-6 levels of druid with the feat that gives me 4 multiclass levels of wildshape. If I use ranger, I can squeak out some more free feats and use shapeshifting hunter for extra times per day too (i dont really need all the spells, even though they are really good for natural attacks). So far it seems the most "synergistic" way to pull off a combat shapeshifter without being overly feat starved.

Another thought is to just embrace the fox shape feat, and go all in with a martial class that enhances it. maybe a dip into white haired witch for at will hair, a monk investment would be great but at that rate just use fists...But alas, fun first. ;)

equipment melds into you while shapeshifted, but usually still gives statistical benefits (other than armor and things you have to "use"). So the spirit oni feat turns on if you are wearing the mask. if you shapechange...does the gore manifest while polymorphed?

I'm inclined toward yes based off my read of the below polymorph rules, but I need some non biased opinions. :)


Spirit Oni Master:
Through forbidden blood pacts, you have bound a spirit oni to your service.

Prerequisite(s): Knowledge (planes) 3 ranks; Lawful neutral, lawful evil, or neutral evil.

Benefit(s): Whenever you wear a specially crafted oni mask (which costs 50 gp), you gain a primary gore attack dealing 1d4 points of damage. If you have poison use, you can apply poison to this gore attack as a move action.

Normal: Applying poison to a weapon is a standard action.


Polymorph rules:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).

AwesomenessDog wrote:

Another gentle reminder of the "stealth" update (pun intended) whereby the size difference was reduced to 2 sizes or wider.

Giant Hunter's Handbook wrote:

Hiding Behind Another Creature:

Large bodies that break your opponent’s line of sight can sometimes be just as useful as darkness for hiding your position.

Special: Normally the soft cover provided by other creatures is not sufficient to allow you to attempt a Stealth check. Soft cover provided by creatures at least one size category larger than you does allow you to attempt Stealth checks against other creatures not already aware of your presence at a –10 penalty. If the creature providing the cover knows which square you occupy and is trying to avoid concealing you, this penalty increases to –20.

You can also hide from a creature by staying under its own body if it is at least two size categories larger than you and you are in its space. Such attempts also take a –10 penalty, which increases to a –20 penalty if the creature is aware you are in the area. If the creature moves away from you, you are automatically revealed, unless you have readied an action to move with it.

with this stealth rule, can you standard action attack, move action hide underneath him/her? that sounds worthy of a high stealth hehe

Makarion wrote:
If you're looking at wildshape, anyway, there's always the Flame Blade Dervish Combat feat. The heal/fire theme also lines up with Sarenrae, and a sun-soaked fox druid sounds pretty interesting!

I really like the flame blade idea, but im not sure it works well with weapon shift. It would turn the damage to fire i think, but it wouldn't become a touch attack, nor get the cha to damage while shifted, would it? I think it only gains damage "type" but doesn't count as the weapon. For example, I dont think I could use weapon focus scimitar to get a +1 while shapeshifted with Shift Weapon. Unless I read it wrong?


This build isnt anything game breaking or anything, just wanted to be a firefox. What ideas do you all have? With two levels, and being a kitsune with fox shape, you can deal an extra 2d6 fire with a swift. Where can we expand it from there? 16 levels of druid for better shapes maybe?

Elemental Ascetic


Elemental Flurry (Su)
At 1st level, an elemental ascetic gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. He gains the kinetic fist form infusion and it costs 0 points of burn instead of 1 point of burn. When using the kinetic fist form infusion with a full attack, he can make a flurry of blows as the monk class feature. He must use only his fists to make this flurry, no matter what other abilities he possesses.

Like a monk, he can use this ability only when unarmored, not using a shield, and unencumbered. He can’t use his kinetic blast without a form infusion, nor can he ever use his kinetic blast with the chain, extended range, extreme range, foe throw, flurry of blasts, many throw, or snake form infusions, or with any other form infusion that requires a ranged attack roll or ranged touch attack roll.

This ability alters kinetic blast and replaces elemental overflow.

Elementalist Shifter


Elemental Strike (Su)
At 1st level, as a swift action, an elementalist shifter can charge her melee attacks with elemental energy. The elementalist shifter can charge her attacks only with an element she has chosen with elemental aspect. Once charged, each melee attack the elementalist shifter makes until the start of her next turn deals an additional 1d6 points of energy damage based on the element she chooses when taking this action (see Elemental Aspects). This additional damage increases by 1d6 at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, to a maximum of 6d6 points of energy damage at 20th level. An elementalist shifter can’t use elemental strike while under a polymorph effect.

This replaces shifter claws.

There's a feat chain that lets you meld weapons into wildshapes, but I'm not sure if Battle Poi would work or not to turn all melee damage into fire. It needs fuel based off its description, but it never mechanically makes reference of it. what are your thoughts? If it did, then any extra damage like power attack or sneak attack damage would also be pure fire (crocodile domain with vivisectionist dip possily). Does the flame blade spell work with weapon shift?


Weapon Shift
Your melee weapons meld into your animal form.

Prerequisite(s): Wild shape class feature.

Benefit(s): When you use your wild shape ability, any melee weapons you are wielding and proficient with meld into your new form. Select one of these weapons; while in your new form, your natural attacks deal the same damage type as that weapon. Your natural attacks also gain all of the weapon’s properties (such as disarm), other than the double weapon property and the fragile weapon property; moreover, when using this feat to grant the trip property to your natural attacks, you gain a +2 bonus on combat maneuver checks to trip an enemy, but you cannot drop your weapon to avoid being tripped due to a failed trip attempt. Weapon Shift does not apply a magic weapon’s enhancement bonus to your natural attacks, nor does it grant your natural attacks any of a weapon’s magical special abilities.

Battle poi
Source Adventurer's Armory pg. 2, Legacy of Fire Player's Guide pg. 22
Cost 5 gp Weight 2 lbs.
Damage 1d3 fire (small), 1d4 fire (medium); Critical x2; Range —; Type fire; Special —
Category Light; Proficiency Exotic
Weapon Groups Flails
This pair of arm-length chains has handles at one end and heavy fuel-soaked torch heads at the other. The weight of the poi is insufficient to deal physical damage, but the burning fuel deals fire damage. If you are proficient in battle poi, you are treated as if you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for the purposes of making poi attacks. Poi can be extinguished by spending a full round action smothering them in sand or submerging them in water.

if we were orc we could worship the fire god and heal, but gotta be kitsune for fox shape at least. If we went orc we could just wait for wildshapes I guess. You could take human guise and then racial heritage to be any other race, but thats a big investment.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Keep in mind that normally you cannot move through an opponent’s square unless they are helpless, or you are three sizes smaller. Also a fine, diminutive or tiny creature can move through an opponent square, but provokes an attack of opportunity doing so. The rules also state you cannot end your movement in an opponent square unless they are helpless or tiny or smaller.

Assuming the tiny fox is a swashbuckler with the deed they would be considered flanking if they are in the opponents square, and if both the target and the fox are adjacent to an ally of the fox. One thing to keep in mind is that if you don’t spend the panache, you will provoke an AoO for moving into the square.

I think we agree, but the way you worded it confused me a bit, so I wanted to link the rules for anyone joining the conversation. :)

thanks for the input everyone!

Movement in combat:


Very Small Creature
A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller
Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself.

A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is. Creatures moving through squares occupied by other creatures provoke attacks of opportunity from those creatures.

Hi friends :)

Do you flank while in your opponents square, regardless of whether you spent panache to enter someones square? for example, could a tiny fox spend all day entering squares the old fashioned way and count as flanking with the second paragraph of the deed below? I feel like you would based on how it reads, but when I read how the deeds ability itself is defined, it makes me think it might only work while activated with panache.

Deeds read like this:


Swashbucklers spend panache points to accomplish deeds. Most deeds grant the swashbuckler a momentary bonus or effect, but some provide longer-lasting effects. Some deeds remain in effect while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, but do not require expending panache to be maintained. A swashbuckler can only perform deeds of her level or lower. Unless otherwise noted, a deed can be performed multiple successive times, as long as the swashbuckler has or spends the required number of panache points to perform the deed.

The Mouser deed reads like this:


Underfoot Assault (Ex): At 1st level, if a foe whose size is larger than the mouser’s is adjacent to her and misses her with a melee attack, the mouser can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet into an area of the attacker’s space. This movement does not count against the mouser’s movement the next round, and it doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. While the mouser is within a foe’s space, she is considered to occupy her square within that foe’s space.

While the mouser is within her foe’s space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser, and all of the mouser’s allies that are adjacent to both the foe and the mouser are considered to be flanking the foe. The mouser is considered to be flanking the foe whose space she is within if she is adjacent to an ally who is also adjacent to the foe. The mouser can move within her foe’s space and leave the foe’s space unhindered and without provoking attacks of opportunity, but if the foe attempts to move to a position where the mouser is no longer in its space, the movement provokes an attack of opportunity from the mouser.

This deed replaces opportune parry and riposte.

I didn't think I ever needed to ask this question, but this DnD 5e designer (Jeremy Crawford) tweeted something that changed that. I am aware that this isn't DnD 5e, but his words have sewn doubt in our group that we are now politely fighting over :)

so... two it 1d4+1 rolled once and dealt to all targets, or is it 1d4+1 and then 1d4+1. I'm hoping there is something concrete in the spellcasting rules that generally addresses this, opinions won't be enough to sway anyone in my group haha.


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Online is definitely better and more inclusive in my opinion, I couldn't go otherwise. But if they ever get back to in person, I'd love for conventions like this to have VR support (like a person that walks around broadcasting it for everyone with a headset), but alas I'm just a nerd with a dream. :)

Trokarr wrote:
Once u hit level 6 in metamorph ur polymorph ability lasts up to 18 hours a day so basically u can use in in the morning and keep ur form all day until u crash for the night. Parasitic Twin discovery will give you a second head and part of a torso. Tentacle will give u another prehensile “tail”. Then take the wings discovery. Now ur an abomination lol.

hehe true, hmmm worth considering. I wish you could get the torso without the head. Too bad it cant go vivisectionist and do torturous transformation on itself haha

Torturous Transformation
At 7th level, a vivisectionist adds anthropomorphic animal to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract. When he uses this extract, he injects it into an animal as part of a 2-hour surgical procedure. By using multiple doses of this extract as part of the surgery, he multiplies the duration by the number of extracts used.

At 9th level, a vivisectionist adds awaken and baleful polymorph to his formula book as 3rd-level extracts. When he uses the awaken or baleful polymorph extract, he injects it into the target (not a plant) as part of a 24-hour surgical procedure. He can make anthropomorphic animal permanent on a creature by spending 7,500 gp.

Trokarr wrote:
A 2 level dip in alchemist would let you take the vestigial arm discovery and gain an arm that way. The extra discovery feat would get you the pair without further dipping. Vivisectionist alchemist would trade out the bombs for sneak attack. Maybe a way to go?

Hmm, I am trying to visualize how a tiger could elegantly have two arms without being horrifying as people walked by haha, but I guess what happens in Golarion stays in Golarion? :D Is there a way to get a torso too? I could just straight up evolve it into a cat centaur or something and make it a bit less awkward. Summoner Synthesist comes to mind, but that archetype is a level of cheese that even I try not to resort to, plus I'd rather it be a permanent or at will thing like the discoveries (metamorph is also a bit too non permanent until level 20)

Just curious, would mischievous tail work for spellcasting? It says you can't wield weapons, but aren't some spells considered weapons or are you just considered armed?

This would at least work for a kineticist I believe. A dip into aether could really improve the awakened cats lifestyle in an urban setting with telekinesis and give it a basic ranged attack

Mischievous Tail
Your tail seems to have a mind of its own.

Prerequisite(s): Dex 15, Grasping Tail, you must have a tail.

Benefit(s): You can use your tail for all purposes as though it were a free hand, though you cannot effectively wield weapons or shields with it (you can still carry such objects with your tail, as long as such an object could also be comfortably carried in a hand normally). In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on disarm and steal combat maneuvers and Sleight of Hand checks performed using only your tail, and combat maneuvers performed this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

oo psychic bloodline is a good idea! I'll have to read up on it. :)

I want to make a paw-caster. That's right, a former animal companion that turned into a sorceror after being awakened. I know there are better things it could take, but lets have some fun and build it anyway.

goals, a still spell mechanic, spells without somatic, eschew materials. In general, ways to cast spells without exclusively using the still spell metamagic +1 modifier. Spell-like ability builds could be useful too.

Question: I've seen a lot of things that specify that creatures without hands still cant wield weapons even if they get them (like through alter self). Is there a rule for that, or is it only a thing when specified? Basically, can a cat still spell alterself or use "a thousand faces" to become humanoid and cast spells like the best of them?

Psychic could work, but we already have one in the party that i dont want to encroach upon. I know there are mechanics for silent spell already (like oracle and mute musician bard) but is there any support for still spell out there? A lot of teleport spells dont have somatic

Natural spell would work if I go druid and just wildshape into itself, but i was hoping for spontaneous caster (possibly the wisdom sorceror, and a big cat that starts with a 15 wisdom).

So far, the most promising build is a wildshaping druid. If I can get them a prehensile appendage (like 1 level of a witch hex for prehensile hair), then that helps too, but that would leave just the rogue that gets hexes because it would hurt my brain too much to have a companion with a companion (plus my party would disown me haha).

Here is a list of all sorceror spells that I know of that have no somatic components:


Arcane Pocket,True Strike,Hold Portal,Knock,Dweomer Retaliation,Emergency Force Sphere,Energy Hack,Imbue With Flight,Damnation Stride,Teleport,Wracking Ray,Contact Other Plane,Teleport Structure,Ice Crystal Teleport,Teleport, Greater,Phase Door,Teleport Object,Power Word Blind,Power ,ord Stun,Prismatic Sphere,Fiery Body,Mage's Disjunction,Time Stop,Teleportation Circle,Power Word Kill,Wail of the Banshee,Vacuous Vessel,Chastise,Feather Fall,Ventriloquism,Hypnotic Pattern,Blur,Steal Voice,Suggestion,Displacement,Geas, Lesser,Triggered Suggestion, Shout,Rainbow Pattern,Dimension Door,Suggestion, Mass,Resonating Word,Irresistible Dance,Charm Monster, Mass,Storm Step,Bilocation,Flare,Flare Burst,Interplanetary Teleport,Buoyancy,Anti-Summoning Shield,Unconscious Agenda,Sundering Shards,Fool's Teleport,Sotto Voce,Darkness,Silent Table,Tongues,Lover's Vengeance,Vision of Hell,Truespeak,Geas/Quest,Baphomet's Blessing,Lighten Object, Mass,Shared Suffering,Echolocation,Planetary Adaptation,Planar Adaptation,Deja Vu,Inveigle Person,Inveigle Monster,Treacherous Teleport,Spark,Lighten Object,Thoughtsense,Telepathy,Tongues, Communal,Sure Casting,Touch Of Blindness,Blindness/Deafness,Hypercognition,Subjective Reality,Wave Shield,Oath Of Anonymity,Fleeting Memory,Fleeting Memory, Mass,Mindwipe,Speak Local Language,Apport Animal,Liberating Comand,Liberating Command,Decrepit Disguise,Anticipate Thoughts,Apport Object,Light,Mindlink,Scales Of Deflection,Raven's Flight,Tail Strike,Heightened Awareness,Knock, Mass,Psychic Reading,Dream Reality,Night Blindness,Desperate Weapon

The MAD comes from needing really high con to power fast healer, but if i drop the fast healer and stalwart chains, i may be able to afford vmc oracle. With life link being early entry, i wonder if it would be worth having a dip, but i admit tagging multiple at once with a higher character level is attractive

I've seen a few threads on skald healers and always wanted to take my own swing at it. It's for an official module with a bunch of other players, so I want to have a bit of fun rather than be super optimal, but I still have some wrinkles to iron out on the build.

The whole idea is built around the advanced Divine Fighting Technique for Sarenrae

Sarenrae's Mercy


Initial Benefit: You take no penalty on attack rolls for using a scimitar to deal nonlethal damage. If your attack with the scimitar would normally deal additional damage (such as via sneak attack, the flaming weapon special ability, or the like), this additional damage can be nonlethal damage. You can also alter spells with the fire, good, or light descriptor and inflict spells so that the damage they deal is nonlethal damage instead. You can choose to apply this effect as the spell is cast.

Advanced Prerequisites: Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (scimitar), Heal 10 ranks.

Advanced Benefit: Once per round as you strike a foe with a weapon and deal nonlethal damage with that attack, you regain 1d6 hit points as the warmth of Sarenrae’s approval and the conviction that you are doing the right thing to minimize suffering infuses your body and soul. If the attack that dealt nonlethal damage was from a scimitar, you instead regain 2d6 hit points. You can gain the benefit of this healing only once per round, regardless of how many successful attacks you make with the weapon.

I did a few dozen builds and like the Skald [boaster archetype] the most so far. The idea is to use the shield other masterpiece and use celestial totem/fey foundling/fast healer to keep myself and others up with the various skald tricks.

With Sarenrae's mercy at level 10: I can potentially heal each round for 2d6+(10 from totem)+(half con modifier)+(4 from fey foundling), plus 4+(half con mod) for vigor, plus Gr Path of Glory 5+(half con mod)+10 (from totem), with Ablative Barrier (spell kenning) to basically heal an additional 5 from every heal over time source (since non lethal and lethal are healed simultaneously). On top of that, Boaster's can give the party die hard and fast healer, and all the other good skald buffs.

After 10 I was thinking to focus on giving the party extra DR, stalwart and improved stalwart as well as discordant voice.

What other healing over time things are out there to help the build? Any magic items in particular I could look into? Any dips or prestige classes? I really think the build is missing channel, but its too feat starved already to do VMC oracle. The build worries me on needing to be up front and being a little multi-ability dependent. There is an evil half orc version of this build that subs the divine technique for fire gods blessing and Amplified Rage, but its way too cheesy, even for me! :)

Ryze Kuja wrote:

This is a really cool idea.

Ok question: Since the Mauler doesn't lose the Share Spells ability, any reason why you couldn't use Beast Shape III to turn the Thrush+Howdah to Huge and then make it permanent with Permanency?

And if so, could you use Battle Form ability from Mauler to revert back to Medium size 3x day?

I think only "polymorph any object" would work in that scenario, however you would have to equip a real Howdah at that point because the shapechange rules say if you transform into an animal, your gear melds into your body. The mauler can do it because its only growing in size. I think Mammoth rider would be the best prestige class to just get a permanent huge mount for your travels :D

Oh wow, I didn't even know a howdah was a thing in pathfinder. Good idea! :)

Okay, so I came up with a fun idea, that sounds too fun so naturally I question the legality of it because fun things are often illegal. Like J-Walking.
Question: How far can we push the limits of the words "equipment resizes to match your new size" when it comes to size changing effects?

So I made a tiny race using the race builder. He's a tiny mouse that builds dollhouses with a diminutive thrush "Mauler" familiar. He builds a "dollhouse" saddle on his dim mauler, and at level three it grows three sizes to medium as a standard action. Does my tiny mouse race now fly in style inside his size medium dollhouse castle?

My fav healer so far is the Shaman with the life mystery. Get yourself a familiar that fast healing familiar with the protector archetype (shield master) and you can life link the party to within 5 of full health after every combat without spending much of anything :) You just offload half the damage to your familiar and it fast heals it away

Melkiador wrote:
Have you considered a swashbuckler with the mouser template? Because that sounds perfect for this.

Oo forgot about the mouser :D good call!

crap, forgot Carnivalist doesnt get a 2nd level rogue talent, so yeah that pushes spirited charge back even further. :(

Heya, so It's been a few years since I've got to make a character and I got some ideas that I need help with. I can't seem to get the first 5 of this build to be realistic for a character that has to exist as it's concept from day/level 1.

Goal: Dex based Mouse sword fighter that rides a bird of paradise and wields a blade of grass! (without spells!!!)

Big goal yeah, I know. Anywho, if this character started at like level 6, I'd have no problems, but I wanted to start the RP of the character from level 0 so it has some challenges. I have a fun backstory that I wont bore you with but basically I don't have to actually BE a mouse (since a tiny mouse race doesn't really exist, and yes I'm making fun of your missed opportunity, Ratfolk)

Challenges (one at a time):

Size - Getting tiny without spells. No idea if I can be both bipedal and Tiny without reduce person. Weretouched shifters are at most small, which isnt the end of the world. Ratfolk are already small but are kinda crap. I was thinking of just going Halfling and making the "mouse" part of my vigilante costume (that would fit my backstory too). Halfling have a lot of feat/trait support for this style character and are overall fun sounding.

Bird of Paradise - this clearly needs to be a Thrush with the Mauler archetype (we allow mounting weird size appropriate things with the right saddle and the right skill checks). There is a lot of RP utility from being able to have the mount shrink back to tiny when going into a tavern, etc. Is there an AVENGER Vigilante that gets a familiar? Magical Child gets an awesome one but...spells (it's a campaign thing, so not negotiable really). Martial classes that can get familiar and have archetypes to kill their spells are Eldricht Guardian, Chosen One (pally), Divine Bound (ranger), carnivalist (rogue), Bonded Investigator (extracts are a go!! but no alchemist because tumor familiars are gross...), am I missing any?? If only there was a cavalier that got a familiar as its bonded mount...(there isnt is there???)

Blade of Grass: Exotic weapon, maybe a reskinned bladed scarf or just a masterwork Estoc to be shaped in an artsy way. I'm not too worried about this part.

So putting it all together, my best Lore start so far is that I haven't really gone vigilante "pro" yet, so I have a crappy costume that gets better at level 4. So something like Rogue 3 (the unchained version of carnivalist so that I can get the finesse training), then 2 Vigilante, 2 eldricht guardian. But tri-classing and jamming all the finesse and the mounted combat stuff in there is tough, and level 7 is already like a year into a game just to get into a good spot. Is there something more elegant I am missing to get what I want? Doing the same thing but with an actual animal companion I think delutes the whole "riding a bird of paradise" thing since its hard to get early game rideable birds. Since I probably cant realistically be tiny without spells, I might have to squeeze in Dragon Style so that I can charge through all those pesky friendlies (tiny can charge through whatever, really).

1: rogue finesse, Exotic weapon (Blade of Grass)
2: Mounted Combat (rogue talent, combat trick)
3: finesse training, Ride By Attack
4: (vigilante social talent)
5: Mounted Combat, shield of Blades (Vigilante talent/Power attack)
7: Spirited Charge

BAB+6 saves+4/6/4 skill points/40 (average 5ish per level before int)

avr wrote: you might be able to afford Shared Stash and a valet familiar via elemental whispers if a ratfolk...

Shared stash is a pretty handy little trick I might be able to work with, has some steep requirements though. hmmm.

Using the bow with a regular blast isnt so bad, its the using Blue Flame composite with the 2 burn cost (3 or more if empowered etc) where it really starts to hurt without the gather power.

Dragonborn3 wrote:
Since it's a form infusion could you add a substance infusion to it as well? Once you have Infusion Specialzation it could be pretty cool.

I would assume you can, i think since its a "blast" now it even gets elemental overflow plus to HIT, but it clearly says no to damage. The character I am building uses a conductive bow and I was planning some decent elemental damage but the build kind of shuts down since I need all my hands just to gather power. Back to the drawing board I guess?

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I'm late to the party, but as I am making a kineticist right now I wondered the same question. As written we already know the answer, but were all hoping it's an oversight/oops and that's specifically what I would like to FAQ. :) I mean to even not use the talent so that you can gather power again for regular blasts, you have to spend action putting the weapon away. Kind of a pigeon-holding pain. maybe give us a feat that lets us gather power with one hand?

strange yes... but I'm building a cohort that is a quadruped mount and I was hoping to make it a kineticist, but you "must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands)". are there any feats that can be taken by non specific races to achieve this?

class dips?: witch hex prehensile hair, alchemist discovery tentacle
magic items?: monkey belt but only 5 minutes per day

avr wrote:

A magus like Lady-J says, in particular a bladebound magus because of this ability:

Energy Attunement (Su): wrote:
At 5th level, as a free action, a magus can spend a point of his black blade’s arcane pool to have it deal one of the following types of damage instead of weapon damage: cold, electricity, or fire. He can spend 2 points from the black blade’s arcane pool to deal sonic or force damage instead of weapon damage. This effect lasts until the start of the magus’s next turn.

Thats a fun looking ability, I think magus is a good fit, my only worry is that Magi seem to run out of steam quick if there are lots of encounters in one day. The kinetic blade route seems hard to beat damage wise. If this wasn't a thematic/challenge build for myself I think that would be the way to go. Visually there is just something cool about energizing a sword you know? :)

bloodrager is a swift so it wouldnt stack with the 6d6 from shifter :(

Hello! I'm making a character that uses a Kitana and I want to be able to do lots of energy damage with it. So far shifter archetype "Elementalist Shifter" gets me 6d6 as a swift, shocking 1d6, Elemental fist and Djinn style 1d6+wis... what other goodies am i missing? The multiclass barbarian variant could get me their elemental rage power for another 1d6 but kills my feats.

Tried working in kineticist with conductive but doesn't seem to work for melee. Any ideas?

unarmed strike is irrelevant to fists. Unarmed literally means "not armed" and makes no mention of a fist. In fact a gelatenous cube can make an unarmed strike. Karate dire tigers sound fun.

Under polymorph rules, you lose your base forms natural attacks, so no bite while polymorphed if your a kitsune/tengu/whatever, but if you have a feat like aspect, then yes you can use that while polymorphed as long as you still have the limb to use it (so no claw attacks while in snake form etc). If your referring to the shifter claws, then they specify that you can use them for natural attacks only while in your shifter major aspects, but i am assuming you meant more broadly.

As for damage type, yes just assume, they forgot, honest mistake. Fire is fire, water is cold, earth is acid, air is electricity. I'm also willing to bet that they will never take the time to spell it out/correct that omission either so I wouldn't hold your breath for an official answer on that one hehe :)

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