Ranged Oradin options and build plan


Advice


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I've been asked to bring a healer to a game starting at 3rd level.

I'd been half thinking of trying to do an oradin of some type for a while and this seems like as good a chance as any, and I think that doing a bow using version sounds good (plus slightly inspired by a mini in my collection).

I can get a +2 Chr and either +2 to Dex or Con from a number of different race choices, I'm not overly concerned with that, but if someone has an interesting option I'm all ears.

Stats
Str 10 + 4 = 14 (5 pts)
Dex 10 + 4 = 15 (7 pts)
Con 10 + 3 = 13 (3 pts) + 2 (Race) 15, will go to 16 at 4th
Int 10
Wis 10
Chr 10 + 4 = 14 (5 pts) + 2 (Race) 16

I'd rather not play an Int/Wis dumped character if I can make this work without doing so. Making Str a 12 wouldn't be the end of the world, and I could buy into the idea of that to bump dex/con/chr

Oracle 1 Life (no archetype, I'd rather not fiddle with Spirit Guide)
Paladin 2 (Hospitaler and ... Tempered Champion or Warrior of the Holy Light) Any opinions on this?

Feats
Point Blank Shot
Fey-Foundling

Traits
Finding your Kin(Haleen) - its a bit of shenanigans, but I can use all the HP and skill points I can get.
Blessed Touch

Am I overlooking something?
I think leveling build pretty much builds itself - a few bow feats, Selective Channel, Quicken Channel, Dex to 16 at 8th, all point to Cha after

Try to stay middle rear of party, shoot in support, focusing on dropping targets to reducing incoming damage


Selective channel is OK for healing during melee. But forget any and all other channeling feats for now. Quicken channel may be hyped by many, but it really cuts your healing power from the ability in half for the meagre advantage to use it as a move action. If you really have a feat to waste on that, wait until later, when you need channel less and can afford to throw half of it away.
(I could do that at my level, but it is pointless, because there were many other more important feats to pick, and oracles are feat starved.)

If you are needed as a healer, an oradin (and an archer at that) is not the optimum choice, because:
- heal spells are all touch, which requires you typically to stay near the melee to take care of enemy crits; hanging back works against you here
- picking up pally levels delays your oracle, which is already one level behind the cleric spell levels; keep in mind that your healing capacity will be below that of a typical oracle; it is true that life oracles are the strongest healers (I should know), but they take a while to come into their own

My most important feat is Reach Spell, since that is the only practical way to heal across a battlefield, where the party is occasionally split far apart. High hits or even crits are common, so waiting till the end of the fight if often not an option. Therefore I recommend picking that one up, once you have the slots to support it a couple of times.


You have to bring a healer?

Can it be a character that can heal but do other things more productive than lick wounds with their Standard actions? How boring to be told to be a healer and play some reactive healbot.

I recommend a class that can do healing but you focus on maximizing your action economy to contribute more to the team than being a band aid. Reach builds are perfect since your first Standard action tends to be buffs. Move to position and pick up AoOs with your longspear. Then either attack or determine what is best use of actions. I personally like the Evangelist cleric, Hospitaler paladin, Oracle, or shaman. All can accomplish healing when nessicery but can be built to contribute more to combat and out of combat.


If you want to be ranged, I'd suggest the Divine Hunter archetype for Paladin. Precise Shot for free at 2nd level is huge, and better fits the whole "ranged" concept. And since it's only a 2 level dip, it's the perfect investment. Sure, you lose Heavy Armor Proficiency, but since you'll be pumping Dex up for your to-hit, it's not really a loss at all.

You really should consider Spirit Guide. Having effectively two Mysteries at once is extremely overpowered for you. (I'm surprised this was even permitted as an archetype to be published since it's better than the base Oracle in every single way.)

Traits could use some work. Blessed Touch is meh, consider things like Reactionary or Indomitable Faith. I also don't know about the whole "Finding your Kin" trait, so I doubt it's much good either.

That being said, everyone is right in saying that healbots are a waste of time unless you can just spam the Heal spell over and over again.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks everyone for some input.

Channel Feats are for later build - likely after 8th, and Hospitlar + Life Oracle will have 2 channel pools.

With likely a max of 4 levels of oracle, healing via spells will be at a minimum, Life Link, Channel and Lay on Hands will pretty much be the healing.

Life Link + quick channels at most uses a move action, and I dont necessarily need to focus purely on in combat healing, but I also know I wont be able to be able to rely getting magic items from the store, so having my own battery of heals will be useful out of combat - obviously a Phylactery of Positive Channeling will be very useful.

Contributing to the party outside of just healing is important, thus the quandary over Warrior of the Holy Light vs. Tempered Champion to combine with Hospitaler.

Divine Hunter isn't a bad call, but I think that Hospitaler+(another)gives a bit more, even if those other choices lose spell casting. Tempered Champion adds a fair number of feats and damage.
Warrior of the Holy Light adds a fair number of extra channels

I can revisit Spirit Guide, and consider how it improves the combination.

Reactionary (or something like it) is probably better than Blessed Touch unless I can get away with combining it Life Link (obviously not RAW, but *shrug* I can ask the DM), But +1 to will saves is pretty questionable when you already have +8 to will without items at 3rd level.

Finding your Kin lets me treat both classes as favored, and one class gets both the Skill Point and HP, leaving room to go 8 Int, 12 wis.

Heal bot isn't exciting, no, but this should give some flexibility and at least something passable to do when healing isn't needed.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If I'm topping out at Oracle 4, I'm not seeing a big advantage to Spirit Guide, and it drops Survival as a class skill which (due to deity based reasons) I'd like to put a point or two in.

If I was going to 7/8th level (or higher) as an Oracle I could see the advantage.


The only benefit I can see for Oracle 4 is for more life link connections and for the spell list and hex from whichever mystery you go with from spirit guide.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

4th level does give one more Life Link and be able to cast 2nd level spells without resorting to an item - like Shield Other.

Its the last level of oracle you can add to the build without another BAB drop, and if, for some (campaign/character/party) reason, post 12th level I find that moving back to a more caster oriented build is what is called for, I can.

This could be a dumb plan. But I want some options to put on the table and this seems a bit more on the edge - workable if there are other full casters at the table.

I've worked up a melee oriented buffing cleric and (much more focused and dull) Oracle Healer as alternates as I have no idea what the rest of the table is bringing at this point.


You might already know about this but there is a nice mini guide to oradins.


Looking at your build in the first post, you probably will not be happy with this character.

Most Oradins go melee, to reduce the number of stats to STR/CON/Char and dump some of the remaining stats -- as a ranged character, you are going DEX/STR/CON/Char, and not dumping any.

With your feats going to two dissimilar feat chains (healing and archery), you will be behind the curve in both.

What is the goal of being a ranged Oradin? Meaning, do you need those two clases? For instance:

If you max UMD, and use arcane wands/scrolls to deal ranged damage, would that suffice? This removes the need for STR and DEX from your build and ups your DPS, but costs gold.
If you go thrown starknife and human, there is a divine fighting feat you can take which lets you use charisma instead of dex/str. This is still feat intensive, but your numbers would be higher (more channels, spells, higher dc, better saves, etc.)
If you plan on only healing out-of-combat, what about being a ranger with wands? I mention this as I'm not seeing your healing scaling up with the party. (1d6 channel at level 3-4 for a standard and without selective channel -- and lifelink takes effort (and levels) to make it work).
Or, a ranged warpriest?

Lastly, what level do you see this build coming online?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
meyerwilliam wrote:
Looking at your build in the first post, you probably will not be happy with this character.

Honestly not super thrilled with it as is - scaling as levels go up is a valid concern.

meyerwilliam wrote:
Most Oradins go melee, to reduce the number of stats to STR/CON/Char and dump some of the remaining stats -- as a ranged character, you are going DEX/STR/CON/Char, and not dumping any.

Keeping 10s in Int/Wis really amounts to getting 1 more point of Charisma instead of 8s, a hapless dullard is not the type I'm envisioning with this character, that said I can totally see trying to arrange these the stats in a different way, I was trying to keep Str up for load and damage purposes, 12 might be tolerable, but would be another drag on the damage.

meyerwilliam wrote:
With your feats going to two dissimilar feat chains (healing and archery), you will be behind the curve in both.

Feat starvation is a potential concern

meyerwilliam wrote:
What is the goal of being a ranged Oradin? Meaning, do you need those two clases?

As basically the party's HP battery, it seemed sensible to mitigate my exposure to extra damage when necessary, and maximize the efficiency of the damage I deal - thus bow seemed to be a good plan, not being a "real" archer being made up for by the odd smite.

I KNOW that in this campaign, access to Magic Item Mart is going to be limited at best so being able to trust that I will regularly be able to re-supply wands (of any variety) will be limited at best, and potentially approaching non-existent, so I'd prefer to have never ending heals available innately. This also makes starknife shenanigans probably a bad call too, as the only magic ones would the ones that get made by a PC.

Yeah, the early channeling isn't going to be awesome, I'd like to think that things ramp up after 6th, and by 8th things should be working well enough. Life Link and Lay on Hands is what I'm hoping makes this work, but that is where the decision for the second paladin archetype comes in, Tempered Champion adds some of the Warpriest's damage potential.

As one of 3 options I'm building for this game, its also the most mechanically interesting - and borderline.
It pretty much requires that spell casting is almost entirely handled by other characters, and I have no idea what they're bringing, but I believe that there will be a fair number of new players at this table, so worrying about being uber optimized to be able to "keep up" with the rest of the part is not a high priority.

IF that turns out to that I see a Wizard, a Druid and a Barbarian, then I may just try this.

Oh and thanks for digging in!


meyerwilliam wrote:

Check out my thread.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uh7v?Spirit-guide-oracle-Of-life#7

I'm currently level 9, only had one tough fight, when I was stun locked. Soaking damage is easy


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Male Human Paladin(Hospitlar&Tempered Champion)/Oracle 2/1
Lawful Good
Str 13 +1
Dex 15 +2
Con 15 +2
Int 8 -1
Wis 10 +0
Chr 16 +3

Feats
Point Blank Shot
Fey-Foundling
Precise Shot
Traits
Finding your Kin - Extra Favored Class, get HP and Skill point with that class.
Scarred by War - +1 HP when healing others, +1 Diplomacy
Reactionary - +2 Initiative

Seems slightly better.
Still concerned about scaling

At 9th level, (lets say 6/3)
Barring any items beyond normal ones:

6 Lay on Hands per day for 3d6
6 Hospitlar Paladin Channels per day for 2d6
4 Oracle of Life Channels per day for 2d6
4 1st level spells per day
(all add +1 for others, +2 per die for self)

BAB +8
Bow Attack +13/+8 (within 30') 1d8+1 (normal non-composite bow)
(+Plus Divine Bond 1/day for 6 minutes, +1 enchantment and 1 Smite Evil per day +3to hit, +12 damage)

Fort +12
Ref +9
Will +11

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