Best type of Grappling Druid

[Atalius]

Which Druid archetype is the best for grappling purposes. Goliath Druid seems cool however one big downside is he cannot become an Octopus or Squid (and my GM allows Multiattack feat). To have a Huge dinosaur companion via Enlarge is pretty cool. Could anyone recommend the optimum choice please?

[Louise Bishop]

There are a lot of builds for this. Most things with grab will work as grab gives you +4 to the check.

There are optimal builds floating on the forums for this already. Just do a serch and click for newest threads first so more of the newer options are shown first.

But this is getting outside my area of Expertise Atalius as I prefer casters or "Basic" styles of Combat. Grapple is one of those manuevers I need to break out the flow chart for to make sure I'm not missing anything during my turns. Hopefully, you find your answers.

[Atalius]

Louise Bishop wrote:

There are a lot of builds for this. Most things with grab will work as grab gives you +4 to the check.

There are optimal builds floating on the forums for this already. Just do a serch and click for newest threads first so more of the newer options are shown first.

But this is getting outside my area of Expertise Atalius as I prefer casters or "Basic" styles of Combat. Grapple is one of those manuevers I need to break out the flow chart for to make sure I'm not missing anything during my turns. Hopefully, you find your answers.

I understand, I believe this might be more of Scott Wilhelm's department.

[Louise Bishop]

Atalius wrote:

Louise Bishop wrote:

There are a lot of builds for this. Most things with grab will work as grab gives you +4 to the check.

There are optimal builds floating on the forums for this already. Just do a serch and click for newest threads first so more of the newer options are shown first.

But this is getting outside my area of Expertise Atalius as I prefer casters or "Basic" styles of Combat. Grapple is one of those manuevers I need to break out the flow chart for to make sure I'm not missing anything during my turns. Hopefully, you find your answers.

I understand, I believe this might be more of Scott Wilhelm's department.

Yes, he is very skilled at Grapple builds and Multiclass monstrosities.

[Grandlounge]

Here is my basic rundown on grappling.

Basic build and optimization is improved grapple, greater grapple, rapid grapple. This with items that boost attack and/or CMB/CMD are what you want. For a druid you add size and grab to this list.

Look for bonuses to CMD so your grab is harder to break. Circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Items and spells can help with this.

Druid 4 Tetori x with Powerful Shape and Shaping Focus. This is a common build for a very high bonus build. Tetori is used for the ability to grapple ungrappleable things.

Other dips that work well IMO are Blood Conduit, or Id Rager.

If you want to tie-up but have the option to do melee damage a goliath druid that turns into a freshwater marrow seems like a good idea.

If you're looking to do damage while grappling Warpriest + Weapon Focus, Strangler Brawler, Improved Natural Attacks all help. Add in constrict and armor spikes for tons of grappling damage.

Other optimization options:

For a particularly brutal build Throat Slicer (Combat) is a pretty potent feat.

Things to consider when playing a grappler:

What do you do after a pin? Tie up is an option, if you're not a tiger. Throat Slicer means two turns to kill an opponent. Hold and damage is an option. What do you do against an iron golem? CMD 39 CR 13 do you have the bonus or do you need a backup plan?

[Atalius]

My GM said if I'm in octopus form he will let me tie up foes if I can make a sleight of Hand check, so I will need to put ranks into that. I guess octopus would be good for both grappling and DPR.

[Atalius]

I wish there were guides on Druidzilla and how to build him. Grandlounge Throat Slicer seems like a great feat once I've pinned my opponent

[Scott Wilhelm]

Atalius wrote:

I wish there were guides on Druidzilla and how to build him. Grandlounge Throat Slicer seems like a great feat once I've pinned my opponent

There is.

This is where I saw my first Druidzilla build.

Both of these are old, so you should look into the rules to make sure they information is still up-to-date. For instance, on the latter link, elsewhere on that thread, I proposed a Natural Attack build that would use Feral Combat Training to apply Monk Unarmed Strike Damage to the Natural Attacks, and FCT no longer does that.

[Atalius]

So is multi classing druid/monk the way to go instead of druid warpriest?

[Atalius]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Atalius wrote:

I wish there were guides on Druidzilla and how to build him. Grandlounge Throat Slicer seems like a great feat once I've pinned my opponent

There is.

This is where I saw my first Druidzilla build.

Both of these are old, so you should look into the rules to make sure they information is still up-to-date. For instance, on the latter link, elsewhere on that thread, I proposed a Natural Attack build that would use Feral Combat Training to apply Monk Unarmed Strike Damage to the Natural Attacks, and FCT no longer does that.

Hmm ya it seems like this first link is based off of bring a nagaji and obtaining Final Embrace which is no longer do-able.

[Atalius]

Reading further suggestions are made on a druid war priest. I need some help here, next level stuff here

[tshop01]

The PFS Druid 12/fighter 1I have at level does pretty good damage.
Sargassum fiend from bestiary 3 does 2d8 with grab (at a cmb bonus of 8 instead of 4), 1.5 strength damage constrict (or at least the base monster's constrict damage has a extra 3 damage), and counts as huge for its grab ability (then can get one higher via feats)
The cmb on the character is 37 with just the things I can recall off the top of my head (probably actually several higher).

The snapping turtle line of feats plus, rapid grappler, lets you grapple/constrict on their turn if your AC is high (wild stone plate plus buffs) then on your turn you can spend a full round potentially dealing (all at the same cmb) 12d8 plus 3x static and 3x1.5 static damage or pin plus 10d8 plus 2xstatic and 3x1.5 static damage.

Easily pinned a enemy and did mid to high 100 damage on one of the seeker mods.
Have to get around it being aquatic though (breath air, life bubble, something like that).

Might have to weather heavy damage from the thing you are grappling if you did not get it via snapping turtle clutch though. They then have a round to go all out on you when cmb roll that got them grappled was in the 50+ range (figuring its better to just try to drop you).

Mid 150s is probably not crazy high at that level if compared to extremes min/max players (e.g. Dual wielding falcata crit build), but it is rather fun to play.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Atalius wrote:

So is multi classing druid/monk the way to go instead of druid warpriest?

I wouldn't say so.

When I first proposed multiclassing Druid/Monk, the rules were different. My earlier idea depended upon a Feat called Feral Combat Training, which allowed you to apply your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage to your Natural Attacks. Then, when Wildshaped into some Large or Huge monster, your MUSD would also scale up with Size. You can't do that anymore: FCT no longer lets you apply MUSD to your Natural Attacks.

But you can apply Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage to your Natural Attacks. You just need to take Weapon Focus for the weapon(s) or worship a Deity whose signature weapon is the Weapon(s) you want. It's not quite as good as in the old days because I have found no Feat like Monastic Legacy that lets you apply some of your nonMonk levels to your MUSD, but it still seems like a good way to go.

I'm not sure which is better. Monktopus seems to rely on combining Strength bonuses from Wildshape Size increases and Barbarian Rage whereas mine depends on increasing Base Damage. Both Lord Markov and I are enamored with multiplying those bonuses by the large number of Attacks that Octopi get. He likes the Giant Lake Octopus because it is Size Huge. I like Giant Octopi which are size Large, but have both Grab and Constrict. I would armor my octopus and use Armor Spikes, and that would sort of work like Constrict for the Giant Lake Octopus. Also, the Lake Octopus is a Template Monster which would not necessarily be allowed in as many venues, certainly not Pathfinder Society, but you are not planning this for PFS, and I wouldn't use Giant Octopus-form in PFS because all those Tentacle attacks would be at -5 to hit--Secondary Natural Attacks--and you can't take Multiattack to offset that in PFS.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Louise Bishop wrote:

Atalius wrote:

Louise Bishop wrote:

There are a lot of builds for this. Most things with grab will work as grab gives you +4 to the check.

There are optimal builds floating on the forums for this already. Just do a serch and click for newest threads first so more of the newer options are shown first.

But this is getting outside my area of Expertise Atalius as I prefer casters or "Basic" styles of Combat. Grapple is one of those manuevers I need to break out the flow chart for to make sure I'm not missing anything during my turns. Hopefully, you find your answers.

I understand, I believe this might be more of Scott Wilhelm's department.

Yes, he is very skilled at Grapple builds and Multiclass monstrosities.

*Blushing*