so i just started looking into spheres of power and i have a question because i was told by some people that you get unlimited casting effectively with spheres of power but i'm seeing that everything you do costs spell points and each class has a finite amount of spell points. did i over look something, or was i misinformed and spheres of power isn't actually unlimited casting of stuff per day?
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I think all spheres have a 0 SP ability.
For most spheres this is a concentration effect, in SoP concentration means spending an action each turn to maintain the spell. Normally this is a standard action though there are a few ways to reduce it to a move action.
e.g. the Protection sphere equivalent of mage armor has a duration of 1 hour per caster level if you spend 1 sp. However you can cast it for 0 SP with a duration of concentration.
This is generally not super useful normally but if say the warrior is fighting and the wizard has nothing better do to with their action they can use it to magically keep up mage armor on the warrior even if they have no SP left.
Other spheres have a cantrip like ability that scales with level. This is pretty similar to how 5e has scaling cantrips so that a caster always has a useful thing to do when out of consumable resources.
So overall compared to vanilla PF you still have limited resources for your cool big spells but your cantrips are actually useful and scale with level.
well i what i was looking for back when i was told about spheres of power was all day single target blasting and fireballs but to do any of the stuff i wanted to im looking at like 6-7 sp per casting with a max sp pool of level+casting stat modifyer
...What in the world are you doing to be needing to spend six spell points per-cast? Tons of metamagic?
The basic Destructive Blast is a 0 SP ability that you can use all day, with an optional 1 SP cost to boost your damage above the normal level. Fire Blast, to get that elemental damage, has no SP cost. If you want to make it explosive, there is the Explosive Orb talent at 1 SP. Which, after the first few levels, you could do quite a few times per day.
More broadly, the system is broken into basic, free abilities that you just have to know, and stronger abilities that require one or more points from your daily resource pool. Even if you're out of SP, most characters will still have plenty of options for things they can do.
well from what i can tell it costs 2 points to get to medium range or 3 to get long range, 1 for explosive, 1 for the element i want plus any additional effects for meta magics.
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...I think you may be confusing Magic Talents (spells known) and Spell Points (your daily resource pool). In Spheres of Power, you pay one Magic Talent to learn the base powers of a sphere, then one additional Magic Talent for each additional power from that sphere you want to know. It's a lot like picking feats.
To attack from further away, you can take the Extended Range talent once (for Medium) or twice (for Long). Once you know it, you don't have to spend any of your Spell Points on that. And, again, Fire Blast doesn't require you to spend a spell point to use it, but you do need to know it.
you are right its a little disorientating, is there any way to lower sp cost sphere cast time? and i remember seeing something that add modifiers but adds complexity what does that mean?
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"Complexity" relates to crafting items. Basically, the more complex an item is, the more it's going to cost.
what about reducing cast time or sp costs? is there anything there for that?
To reduce casting time, there's really just the Quicken Spell metamagic - which is intentional, since most casting is intended to be a Standard Action. (Action Economy is the most valuable resource in the game, and should not be bypassed lightly.)
There's no real way to reduce normal SP costs - those are, and are meant to be, a limit on your character's power. Even just -1 SP would be a huge benefit. You can, however, purchase wands (which come with their own SP pools) or rods (which tend to offer permanent effects while activated), or use various consumable items like scrolls.
GM Rednal wrote: To reduce casting time, there's really just the Quicken Spell metamagic - which is intentional, since most casting is intended to be a Standard Action. (Action Economy is the most valuable resource in the game, and should not be bypassed lightly.)
There's no real way to reduce normal SP costs - those are, and are meant to be, a limit on your character's power. Even just -1 SP would be a huge benefit. You can, however, purchase wands (which come with their own SP pools) or rods (which tend to offer permanent effects while activated), or use various consumable items like scrolls.
so applying meta magics don't increase casting time like they would for a sorc?
They do increase casting time (with, of course, the obvious exception of Quicken Spell). More specifically, each Metamagic applied to a spell increases its casting time by one step (Standard to Full-Round, then 1 Round, then 1 Minute, etc). The table for casting times can be found in the basic rules for Spheres of Power.
anything like this for the spheres?
Not that I'm aware of, although it's always possible that such an option will be printed in an upcoming handbook. If I were to guess, options for casting faster than usual would appear in the Time-themed handbook (whenever that's released).
The closest thing is probably the Metamagic Expert boon, which gives you a +1 bonus to Caster Level for any sphere augmented by metamagic.
hmm so no way of reducing metamagic costs then, what about something like spell specialization would be something like +2 caster levels when using a specific sphere
General bonuses to caster level for a Sphere are handled by Staves (which can provide up to a +5 enhancement bonus to caster level for one or more Spheres). There's also the Empowered Abilities boon (which gives you a bonus if you're running low on SP), and a couple of odd feats (like Energy Specialization, which gives you a +2 insight bonus to caster level for one particular group of destructive blasts). Incanters can specialize in a Sphere for a flat +1 to their Caster level with it and three special abilities.
interesting thank you another question is are the spheres items? like a dagger or a wand or is it something more like an ioun stone?
also different classes get different scaling caster levels but act as though their level was their caster level for certain orbs how would that effect things like craft wondrous items or becoming a lich
Spheres of Power offers a redesigned system for creating magical items. Many people may prefer to play with the 'base' items of the game, but for those who want to go all the way, most of the crafting feats do something different in Spheres. The rules are in the book, and on the Spheres of Power wiki here.
but do they act like weapons and need to be wielded or are they passive and you can have both hands free when using the powers?
Staves need to be held (or at least 'wielded') in order to provide their effects.
Of course, Spheres of Power doesn't inherently require you to have your hands free when casting, either... so that's really only a problem for you if you want it to be.
alright can a staff and a rod be wielded at the same time or is a staff a 2h weapon?
Staffs are typically wielded in two hands.
so no way of using staff and metamagic rod at the same time then right?
Eh, you probably could. Officially, staves need to be held in at least one hand to be activated (versus being wielded as a weapon in two hands), so having both staff and rod should be fine.
what would be some good alternate spheres for an elementalist?
Depends on what you want to do with them. As a Mid-Caster, they're fairly viable with most Spheres, and Spheres of Power works best when you're creating the kind of caster you want to play.
well this would be a conversion of sorts of a blaster sorc i had in mind, i've never played a caster before but i think i would like to at least try to have the same spells from my list, ill be able to give a full list of what spells i have in mind after work
so here's a list of spells i would like to emulate if possible shield, fly, invisibility, greater invisibility, black tentacles, glitter dust,infernal healing, repair undead, animate dead, dimension door, see invisibility, true seeing plane shift, greater teleport, create demi plane, permanency
now now all that's on the list needs to be emulated i could live without some of them but i would like all of them if at all possible
The closest talents I can find are as follows:
Shield: Protection's Armored Magic (also Mage Armor)
Invisibility: Illusion has a talent for this
Black Tentacles: Dark's Snagging Darkness
Glitterdust: Light has Visual Overload (to daze targets), plus some other handy stuff
Infernal Healing: The Life Sphere has a fantastic Fast Healing talent for use outside of combat.
Repair/Animate Undead: The Death Sphere is half devoted to undead.
Dimension Door: The basic Warp sphere, plus the Emergency Warp talent.
See Invisibility: Divination's Ghost Sense lets you see invisible creatures better, and if you know both Divination and Illusion, you get a divining ability that lets you check for invisibility and such.
Plane Shift: This is an Advanced Talent for Warp, only usable with GM permission.
Greater Teleport: Also an Advanced Talent for Warp.
Create Demiplane: Also an Advanced Talent for Warp.
Permanency: Uh... there are a few Advanced Talents that can make things permanent, but no power that can make any other ability permanent. There ARE rods, however, which can provide a permanent effect while held.
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Now, obviously, you're not getting all of these at Level 1, and some are only with GM permission... but just about all of that list is doable in Spheres. Since you're bouncing all over the place with powers known, you'll probably want to play an Incanter. They get the most Magic Talents, and you probably need at least 16 to replicate everything outside the Advanced Talents, which the Incanter could have by Level 9 (or faster if you invest some of their bonus feats into more talents).
the character is primarily a blaster who will eventually become a lich which is why i wanted the demiplane although i guess i could just buy a scroll of create demiplane and permanency to get my demiplane cutting the need for those talents, i think i can drop the glitter dust i can probably cut fast healing out and the black tentacles equivalent isn't that great so i can cut that out as well, death sphere has no way of making the undead minions permanent so i can scrap that
so my with my reduced list i will have
-destruction-14 talents?
-warp-3 talents
-illusion-2 talents(unless illutionary odor can mast my smell to fool scent
-divination- 1 talent
-protection- 1 talent
>.< just noticed the one talent point for blasting that the build 100% needs costs spell points so my plan of all day blasting is ruined
so make that 13 talents for the destruction orb
Note that you can generally only apply one Blast Type and one Blast Shape to any given Destructive Blast. Oh, but the Gather Energy power does let you improve your damage by spending more time casting instead of paying a Spell Point...
Lady-J wrote: ...death sphere has no way of making the undead minions permanent... Advanced Talent: Permanent Undead
It might seem like you can't do nearly as much fun stuff with Spheres of Power, but it has its own merits. Heck, my group would rather use Spheres now than the old system.
Some things I learned from my time in Rise of the Runelords playing a Witch.
1. Don't worry too much about trying to match spells to their equivalent spheres to get the effects.
Just try to find the effects you want in whatever sphere it is and try to put it together efficiently. Some things don't work as easily as they used to, but Spheres is almost meant to limit the overall power of casters.
2. Limit how many talents you get that require SP expenditure.
You only have so much SP to go around and picking a bunch of SP use only talents could be limiting if other equally attractive options require none.
3. Divination is extremely helpful, the base sphere might be all you need.
The more spheres you have, the more you can divine for.
4. One caster cannot be relied upon to solve every problem.
Two full casters can cover a lot of ground, but the single wizard prepared for everything isn't possible with PC wealth expectations.
5. Stone Blast (blast type) is extremely valuable for even the most generalist caster.
Piercing SR, Immunity, and darn near every other type of protection offered is amazing.
Favorites:
Time Sphere, Eject, Group, Ranged
Fate Sphere, Pain - Fate Sphere, Harm
Divination Sphere, Divine Future
I played a support character that invested heavily in Warp (probably too much), but those produce some fun effects any caster could appreciate.
how many books does SOP have btw?
The main book, Expanded Options, I think ten released handbooks (out of 20 planned), and then they have at least two other books planned, I think.
hmm then there's a lot of combing i have to do in order to use an option i need the book is there an easy way to tell what talents come from what books?
If the talent didn't come from the base SoP book, it came from the handbook associated with the Sphere.
Archetypes and drawbacks; those get a little trick in determining where they come from.
Some archetypes came from the expanded options book, but most are also from the sphere specific handbooks.
thx that will save a bunch of time at least i hope
another question are there rules for converting current classes over to the sphere system?
Yyyyyyyup. Most appear in Spheres of Power: Expanded Options, and they're also on the wiki for quick online reference. A fair few classes also have additional archetypes, above and beyond straight Vancian-to-Spheres conversions.
do drawbacks need to be taken or can you just skip them?
You can have no drawbacks, but that also means you will have less SP or no boons. No restrictions can also be useful though. It is just a lot of trade-offs.
The drawbacks section can be used to fluff out different types of casting traditions which provide flavor for how magic is harnessed in world. The conversion archetypes list what drawbacks closely resemble the normal casting used by that class.
Of course, all this can be skipped if you like or if the GM doesn't want to bother with it.
Technically, the entire Casting Traditions section is an optional rule - though personally, I highly recommend using it. It's quite good for helping to give some unique style and flavor to casters, and most of the drawbacks are genuine limits on what characters can do.
also can sphere casters and non sphere casters co exist? like say have a group want to play with spheres but half the group prefers traditional casting can the two work together or does it unbalance things?
Lady-J wrote: also can sphere casters and non sphere casters co exist? like say have a group want to play with spheres but half the group prefers traditional casting can the two work together or does it unbalance things? It is designed to fit into the existing system if desired, it should be fine. The largest potential for unbalancing the game will still be vancian casters just as in vanilla.
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