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I have an android character concept in mind that both of these classes fit. Can anyone help me pro con between these choices?
Operative:
The hacker operative is going to be more like a sneaky spy hacker. You'll be favoring Dex over Int. They'll have a much wider variety of skills. So in addition to potentially being good at hacking, you might also be good at stealth, acrobatics, piloting, disguise, etc. They have some abilities which help with hacking, but not many. So you'll be a better generalist, with some cool abilities for other situations, but a worse specialist in hacking.In combat, their trick attack does significant damage, combining a move action with an attack action. However, as levels go on, their accuracy drops a little due to only 3/4 BAB. Trick attack has some team utility as well at higher levels.
Mechanic:
The Exocortex mechanic will be more like a guy in his garage hacking into secure facilities remotely for fun. They'll be really good at hacking, along with good at a few other skills that involve intellectual pursuits (sciences, engineering). They won't be sneaking into buildings with pure stealth as easily, but they might be quite adept at simply deactivating all the high tech defenses. Remotely even.
They will be much more accurate in combat at high levels, but less mobile, and less bigger hits (although don't underestimate full attack). They can get higher AC than an operative because of heavy armor and one or two other abilities which can boost AC.
They can eventually remotely hack from a distance and fight at the same time, something an operative cannot do. They have many more hacker themed powers, like a guaranteed shut down of something technological for 1 round or do on the fly upgrades in a move action which last for a minute.
While an operative can pick an ability to hack in half the time, the Exocortex Mechanic can take an identical ability, and then get two standard actions per turn to hack, essentially dropping the time to a quarter, or alternatively do two completely separate hacks simultaneously in half the time. If you want to be the best with computers, you go Exocortex Mechanic.
At mid-to-late levels they can get some nice drone upgrades built into yourself. Things like permanent flight or another armor upgrade slot to go with the Android's armor upgrade slot.
Summary:
If you want to be a slick spy hacker, who sneaks in, slices into the mainframe, then repels off the top of the building, and finally changes into a tuxedo at the end to blend in with the crowd in the ballroom, be an Operative.
If you want to be the ult1mat3 hacker, whose computer skills are second to none, and likes custom made technological gadgets that make him accurate and hard to hurt in combat, go Mechanic.
Hope that helps.
Being that it's generally hard for stealth to matter in your average kick-in-the-door party, the mechanic will usually be better.
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Being that it's generally hard for stealth to matter in your average kick-in-the-door party, the mechanic will usually be better.
The operative will be much more effective at combat thanks to trick attacks, without being stealthy at all. If your party is a kick in the door type, that's combat effectiveness is going to make the operative more attractive.
Being that it's generally hard for stealth to matter in your average kick-in-the-door party, the mechanic will usually be better.The operative will be much more effective at combat thanks to trick attacks, without being stealthy at all. If your party is a kick in the door type, that's combat effectiveness is going to make the operative more attractive.
That combat effectiveness will vary based on level, and what other abilities come into play. Certainly the Operative will have more mobility. However, an 18 Dex ranged operative is rolling +5 1d6+1d4 (6 avg) at 30 feet, about 75% of the time against flat footed at 1st level. Or they can target EAC, doing 1d4+1d4 (5 avg) out to 80 feet.
A ranged Mechanic (18 Dex, 14 Int) is targeting EAC with +6 1d8 (4.5 avg) at 120 feet. Or if they go they are Human and go crazy, 12 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Int, grab Heavy Weapons proficiency along with Heavy Weapons focus, and get an Artillery laser targeting EAC for +6 1d10 penetrating (5.5 avg) out to 120 feet. Wouldn't recommend it at 1st, but quite reasonable after 5th when you can put a 12 in Str, and at 7th there's an option to get the Heavy Weapons Proficiency as a "drone" mod without using the normal feats every odd level.
Those look pretty similar in terms of raw damage numbers, with accuracy going to the mechanic. AC will probably be the same depending on armor.
At mid levels, say 10th, the Mechanic is still keeping up just fine in damage (with AoE options in Heavy weapons) and has better armor.
A 25 Dex ranged operative is doing +15 3d6+5d8+10 (43 avg) with their full action trick attack, plus a handy side effect, probably flat footed for the party for another virtual +2 to hit. They have 29-30 KAC.
A 25 Dex ranged mechanic is doing +17 3d8+10 penetrating (23.5 avg) vs EAC. With a second move action they can bump it up to +19 3d8+12 (25.5 avg) for a minute. Later they can full attack with something like +15 vs EAC 3d8+12 twice (47 avg), which will generally be identical odds of hitting as the operative. You also have more AC at 31-33 KAC (hyperoverclocked AI gives +1 insight to AC, plus the heavy armor). So you are generally going to be a round slower on taking out single target enemies because of the setup time, but tougher in exchange.
However, that doesn't include the option for going the long range AoE route, which depending on circumstances could sometimes do much more damage in an opening surprise salvo situation.
What about both? I've been working on an android mechanic build, and am now thinking I'd take one level in exocortex mechanic and then switch to operative. With a high Int (say 16 to start) and the skill advantages from Operative's Edge and Specialization, you could have some crazy high skills.
I'm not necessarily focused on the hacker model here, so I'm okay with giving up some of the later hacker options - but I could still be very good at those things while getting some of the broader utility of the operative.
Any thoughts on what I'd be giving up and gaining with this approach?
What about both? I've been working on an android mechanic build, and am now thinking I'd take one level in exocortex mechanic and then switch to operative. With a high Int (say 16 to start) and the skill advantages from Operative's Edge and Specialization, you could have some crazy high skills.
I'm not necessarily focused on the hacker model here, so I'm okay with giving up some of the later hacker options - but I could still be very good at those things while getting some of the broader utility of the operative.
Any thoughts on what I'd be giving up and gaining with this approach?
Interesting. I am also considering an android mechanic, but basically because I want to make a sort of android that evolves and adapts as he accumulates experience and the Exocortex and Custom Rig stuff seem well-suited to that, what with all the sorta kinda cybernetic abilities they grant at the various levels. Plus, what can I say? I always liked Data and the various other androids of sci-fi. :-)
Interesting. I am also considering an android mechanic, but basically because I want to make a sort of android that evolves and adapts as he accumulates experience and the Exocortex and Custom Rig stuff seem well-suited to that, what with all the sorta kinda cybernetic abilities they grant at the various levels. Plus, what can I say? I always liked Data and the various other androids of sci-fi. :-)
F. Castor, as I live and breathe! A pleasure to see you again, been a long time since we PbP'ed! I like that way of thinking about the android, as the nanites it's made of adapt or swap in and out.
Same here! Still around, mate, even though my free time has diminished somewhat. Still in a couple of games or three, but they are moving along at a relaxed pace so it is fine. That said, Starfinder has certainly caught my interest and I am once again stalking the Recruitment threads for a game that will appeal to me.
I'm still in a few long-term games, but have found that PFS works really well in the PbP format, as the scenarios are nice and short and you don't have the inevitable ebb and flow of energy and pace that a full AP or other long game has. I just had too many long games either end when the GM vanished or fade away due to waning interest from players, GM, or both.
Looking more closely at the Mechanic 1/Operative X option, I'm seeing some weak spots in the plan. The exocortex gives you proficiency in heavy armor (which makes a number of the operative abilities not work) and long arms (which don't work with trick attack).
So, you'd still get a +1 to attacks from Combat Tracking, and the reroll and Skill Focus from Memory Module. You'd also have the skill bonus from Bypass, but you're slowing down the Operative's Edge progression. Custom Rig would give you the basic tool kit needed for Computers and Engineering, but that's something you can buy for 20 credits.
Having sort of answered my own question, anyone else have thoughts to share on this?
I do not think that Bypass and Operative's Edge stack, if memory serves. In fact, the latter pretty much makes the former obsolete.