Trying to come up with a good prophesy for my campaign

[Duncan888]

I been trying to come up with a prophesy.

Something like...

When the champion falls.
Hero's revealed.
Alliances broken.
Allies found.
A city in peril.
An artifact created.
Sacrifices done.
A dragon slain.

Then the shadow of evil can be driven from this world forever.

Now I don't want to spoon feed the plot to my party. But I want some kind of prophesy that includes the above.

[prong999]

I hope you read it to them in a "movie announcer-like voice". :v

[Daethor]

Hmmm. Writing a prophesy sounds fun. Could you give me some more details? I think I'd need information on the relevant campaign points, the deliverer of the prophesy, and when the players get the prophesy.

You can PM me if you don't want to post the details to the messageboards for whatever reason.

[blackbloodtroll]

Going to need more info on the campaign.

[Duncan888]

Can't really lay out the whole campaign here. Those would be the major plot lines. It just sounds like I'm giving them too much by this.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, without info, we have no idea if it is too much, too little, or terribly misleading.

You are kinda asking "I am building a thing, but I can't tell you what it is, and I need advice on building it".

[Petty Alchemy]

Very general as is, but we can't really add any mysterious touch that most prophecies have without knowing more.

Since you know all the stuff, I suggest using a lot of metaphor. Something like this perhaps.

"A city in peril" - "The pulse of stone quickens"
"An artifact created" - "A new hope born in fire" (assuming it's for the heroes)

[Mark Sweetman]

Metaphor and misdirection are your best friends when trying to write a prophecy. I'd start very simple (as you've done) and then layer on the obfuscation and twisty words... but if you'd like any real help in the writing as other have said... details, details, details.

[rorek55]

try combining lines, like.

When Champions fall, the heroes revealed
Old alliances broken, new allies found
A city in peril, an artefact created.
ect ect.

[rorek55]

try combining lines, like.

When Champions fall, the heroes revealed
Old alliances broken, new allies found
A city in peril, an artefact created.
ect ect.

also, just saying, good rhymes makes prophecies much better imo.

[cnetarian]

hmm, would something like this work?

When the victor spoils and reveals the names,
When old friends leave and new friends remain.

The city must find a route,
To avoid a future moot.

Make what is needed and pay high cost,
Ensure the dragon dice get tossed.

[Rynjin]

Why do prophecies always have to be so damn cryptic? It's a cliche, and a frustrating one used primarily by lazy storytellers who want to be "Ooh cryptic" for no adequate reason other than that they want to reveal tiny snippets of their plot that will probably turn out to be misleading later.

Try and be unique, do something different that no one will suspect.

Like actually having the prophecy be straightforward.

"I have had a prophecy. The city will be in danger, its Champion will fall in the first wave. You will be our only hope. You will need to gather allies, break the unholy alliance of our enemy, and create an artifact if you're to have any hope of saving us all. The dragon can be slain, have hope, though it may require a great sacrifice. That's all I got."

Your players will never see it coming.

Sure, now they know the general layout of the plot...but is that a bad thing? Adds a bit of a sense of urgency that they KNOW what's going to happen, but can't do anything to stop it yet, and have to race to gather up who and what they need to save lives.

[Vamptastic]

Rynjin wrote:

Why do prophecies always have to be so damn cryptic? It's a cliche, and a frustrating one used primarily by lazy storytellers who want to be "Ooh cryptic" for no adequate reason other than that they want to reveal tiny snippets of their plot that will probably turn out to be misleading later.

Try and be unique, do something different that no one will suspect.

Like actually having the prophecy be straightforward.

"I have had a prophecy. The city will be in danger, its Champion will fall in the first wave. You will be our only hope. You will need to gather allies, break the unholy alliance of our enemy, and create an artifact if you're to have any hope of saving us all. The dragon can be slain, have hope, though it may require a great sacrifice. That's all I got."

Your players will never see it coming.

Sure, now they know the general layout of the plot...but is that a bad thing? Adds a bit of a sense of urgency that they KNOW what's going to happen, but can't do anything to stop it yet, and have to race to gather up who and what they need to save lives.

Them "knowing" doesn't matter. In that above prophecy, it could be any kind of danger, and the 'Champion' could be anyone. Man, this could mess them up for the first two months of the campaign, seeing the prophecy 'come true' everywhere they go.

[Grishnackh]

the funny part about a the cryptic prophecy clichee is that everyone expects the clichee. if guised as a prophecy you can tell them pretty straight forward what going to happen and they will still be confused

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

When the small bears from the windy place win the penant, the end us nigh!

[LuniasM]

I'm no master at creating prophecies, but rhymes seem to be memorable. How about something like this:

A hero revealed when the champion is slain,
Alliances break, though allies may yet remain.
One doomed city crumbles whilst an artifact's made,
Only through great sacrifice will the dragon's life fade.

The third line feels shaky to me, but that's the best I can come up with at the moment.

Edit: I'll add more when I get home from work, this is kinda short.

[Vamptastic]

I'm gonna run a game and have the characters come across a prophecy, and when translated from it's ancient picture-language, it'll translate thusly:

"It starts with Monday/I don't know why/doesn't even matter how hard you try..."

[Rynjin]

Vamptastic wrote:

Them "knowing" doesn't matter. In that above prophecy, it could be any kind of danger, and the 'Champion' could be anyone. Man, this could mess them up for the first two months of the campaign, seeing the prophecy 'come true' everywhere they go.

Just workin' with what I've got. If I had more details I could add more details.

[chaoseffect]

The prophecy should be cryptic to the point of making no sense in any context. NPCs should heavily encourage the PCs to try to work it out.

Their face when the "prophet" was actually the town drunk and everyone else was in on the joke except the PCs because they find it hilarious to mess with the traveling adventurers.

[cnetarian]

Rynjin wrote:

Why do prophecies always have to be so damn cryptic? It's a cliche, and a frustrating one used primarily by lazy storytellers who want to be "Ooh cryptic" for no adequate reason other than that they want to reveal tiny snippets of their plot that will probably turn out to be misleading later.

The more specific and clear a prophecy is the more likely it is to run afoul of free will, and the harder it will be for the prophecy to come true.

A prophecy could say: "On Midsummer, 3214 at 8:07 PM the Dragon Smeagle will be slain by a party of adventures 3 miles north of Marston Moor. The party will consist of the humans Ker-el & Niacie, the elf Silandor and the dwarf Stan and, while all in the party will survive, the dwarf Stan will become corrupted and later (see prophecy no. 23,123) bring about the death of 2/3rds of dwarf-kind and 10,027 years of dwarven slavery." Want to bet any dragon named Smeagle is going to be within 100 miles of any place which might in any way be considered a Marston Moor on that date, or that the name Stan is going to given to any dwarf ever?

[aboniks]

Duncan888 wrote:

I been trying to come up with a prophesy.

Something like...

When the champion falls.
Hero's revealed.
Alliances broken.
Allies found.
A city in peril.
An artifact created.
Sacrifices done.
A dragon slain.

Then the shadow of evil can be driven from this world forever.

Now I don't want to spoon feed the plot to my party. But I want some kind of prophesy that includes the above.

If I understand what you're asking for you want what you wrote translated into something less straightforward and more poetic. Here's my 2cp:

The champion approaches winter;
old light falls upon new blades.

Empty vessels shattered;
made whole by different hands.

Towers burn like paper;
a spark to light the forge.

Lifeblood freely offered up;
to balance out the scales.

Broken wings on broken stone;
no longer block the Light.

The "sacrifices done" bit was a little unclear, but I took it as people sacrificing themselves for something good, rather than people sacrificing each other for something evil.

[rorek55]

LuniasM wrote:

I'm no master at creating prophecies, but rhymes seem to be memorable. How about something like this:

A hero revealed when the champion slain,
Alliances break, though allies remain.
One doomed city crumbles, an artifact's made,
Only through sacrifice will the dragon's life fade.

The third line feels shaky to me, but that's the best I can come up with at the moment.

Edit: I'll add more when I get home from work, this is kinda short.

I changed to what I would probably say. less is more in prophecy ryheme lines

[Mr.Fishy]

Duncan888 wrote:

I been trying to come up with a prophesy.

When the champion falls.
Hero's revealed.
Alliances broken.
Allies found.
A city in peril.
An artifact created.
Sacrifices done.
A dragon slain.
The fish bowl cleaned.

Then the shadow of evil can be driven from this world forever. Or until some idiot opens the door, marked in five languages, do not open.

Mr. Fishy added a line and amended the last line.

So...What are the major plot turns? Champion falls; falls into evil or is killed? Hero's revealed, is that the party? Allies and alliances who's? Sacrifices, who's the hero's, their allies, or the enemy? You need to know, but a clue that could be misunderstood could be a plot hook.

[Rynjin]

cnetarian wrote:

The more specific and clear a prophecy is the more likely it is to run afoul of free will, and the harder it will be for the prophecy to come true.

Well, for one it doesn't have to be super clear, just give them a general idea of what's going on rather than random "Ooh spooky look at my RHYMESSSSSS".

Second, with that in mind, wouldn't it make MORE LOGICAL SENSE for a seer who wants to prevent something like that from happening to do so?

"Smeargle has turned tail and run, sir."

"All part of my master plan. And how goes the purging of the Stans?"

"It proceeds swiftly. As it turns out, Stan is not a very common Dwarven name to begin with."

[LazarX]

Rynjin wrote:

Why do prophecies always have to be so damn cryptic? It's a cliche, and a frustrating one used primarily by lazy storytellers who want to be "Ooh cryptic" for no adequate reason other than that they want to reveal tiny snippets of their plot that will probably turn out to be misleading later.

Try and be unique, do something different that no one will suspect.

Like actually having the prophecy be straightforward.

Unless you're going to deprive your players of free will to the extent that railroading sounds like a loose rein, it's best to leave prophecies vague enough to encompass a range of outcomes rather than a nailed down plotline.

Personally instead of prophecies, I'm more akin to foreshadowing signs such as "Bad Wolf" or Mysterious cracks that keep popping up at odd moments. If the campaign revolves around a particular diety, use omens, signs, bound to that diety.

And be patient, frequently you'll have several repititions before the players notice the pattern, and tht's good.

[jwes55]

Prophecies in a campaign can cut both ways depending on the group, but can be incredibly powerful narratives depending on how you present it. Aboniks definitely has the right of it; you need to be more vague, yet more precise. Prophecies are at their best when they can be interpreted in multiple ways, but they also have to have a mystique around them.

As a GM, it's time to think about how the Champion will fall. Maybe the Champion is a Paladin with a distinctive Shield - a Lion, let's say - and you know he's going get killed by the a badass orc who rides a worg - and the prophecy becomes more interesting: "When the Lion falls to the Wolf"

There's a couple ways you can go with this depending on what you've already fleshed out in your campaign world - if you have a set world, then Eureka, you've got tons of reference material to inform your prophecy. on the flip side, if you have a general idea and the prophecy is your main thing, then then use it to inform your campaign.

I highly advise you utilize two resources as reference material - the Nostradamus Quatrains because they are vague and confusing, (and very wizardy-crazy) and the bible - Psalms comes to mind, but you could literally just open a page and get good prophecy material(Oracle and clerics). And if you're looking to build your campaign world, you may get the added bonus of extra ideas.

[master_marshmallow]

There will be four jackasses who, in their attempt to find wealth and power, will inadvertently rise to become heroes and cut through the heart of darkness! Destruction will be wrought and pain will be felt, mostly by the people. They will not know them as heroes, and the heroes will not know themselves as such.

So the he prophecy says...

[aboniks]

jwes55 wrote:

...As a GM, it's time to think about how the Champion will fall. Maybe the Champion is a Paladin with a distinctive Shield - a Lion, let's say - and you know he's going get killed by the a badass orc who rides a worg - and the prophecy becomes more interesting: "When the Lion falls to the Wolf"...

I heartily agree. Specific details like that will make the prophecy more relevant to your plot concept, and simultaneously less obvious.

I think you'll need to have a solid idea in your head of how important understanding this prophecy will actually be for the PC's, and how they will learn about it.

If it's a one shot thing and they find it written somewhere, will it matter to the plot progression if they just say 'meh' and keep adventuring? Or will they have to be aware of and mindful of the prophecy and their place in it in order to make the plot work?

Is this a mystery for them to solve, or a McGuffin? That decision may have to guide the way it's written.

[Tinalles]

Large scale prophecies work much better in novels. In a campaign, you run two risks. First, if the plot strays too far from the prophecy, then it can easily become totally irrelevant to actual game events. Some prophecy. Second, and on the other end of the spectrum, if the GM can't let go of the prophecy, then the prophecy can easily become a railroad.

I therefore much prefer tying prophecies to specific encounters. If the PCs avoid the encounter somehow, you can forget the prophecy entirely with no harm to the overall plot.

Examples:

Spoilers for Rise of the Runelords:

An early encounter in RotRL is the fight on Thistletop, where there's some nasty difficult terrain composed of briars. I could tell that was going to be a serious problem for my group. So, I the NPC Madame Niska Mvashti appear to a PC and hand her a card from a Harrow Deck, the Briar Patch, together with the following prophecy: "Thorny briars do not hinder those who love the land." When the encounter happened, the card vanished and that one PC got freedom to move through the terrain unhindered.

Spoilers for The Harrowing:

This one was more or less impromptu. There's an encounter where the party comes across a centaur apparently getting mauled by an air elemental. The elemental is drunk and trying to dance. One of the PCs cast Divination and asked for advice on navigating the desert, so I told him "The dancing wind means no harm to the horse man." Of course, when they encountered the centaur and elemental mere minutes later, they failed to figure it out despite the air elemental shouting "Dance, horse man, dance!" Ah, well.

[LuniasM]

rorek55 wrote:

LuniasM wrote:

I'm no master at creating prophecies, but rhymes seem to be memorable. How about something like this:

A hero revealed when the champion slain,
Alliances break, though allies remain.
One doomed city crumbles, an artifact's made,
Only through sacrifice will the dragon's life fade.

The third line feels shaky to me, but that's the best I can come up with at the moment.

Edit: I'll add more when I get home from work, this is kinda short.

I changed to what I would probably say. less is more in prophecy ryheme lines

Agreed, this looks much better. It's still a rather short prophecy, but maybe that's not such a bad thing? More details about the nature of the plot would help.

[Steve B]

Why do you want to write a prophecy? Is it to provide narrative direction for the players? Is it to help them distinguish plot points from random events? Is it to provide the party with a new rule system? Once you know what purpose the prophecy serves, you'll be better prepared to write one that works for the campaign.

I think the elements in your prophecy need to be made more visual and more concrete based on the specific details of the campaign. Checking out the cards in a harrow deck might give you some ideas for how to represent the events. As some have suggested, metaphor is the best way to get specific without giving it all away. The poetry of it can keep your players invested in the mystery as they try to match events to the symbols you've used, or even puzzle out whether what you've said is literally true.

A "golden flood" can be an army marching under yellow banners, a large inheritance from a wealthy benefactor, or even just an actual flood viewed at sunrise. A "leaky dragon" in a prophecy can represent an NPC who likes spicy food but tears up when he eats, or a run-down ship called The Wyvern. You should have some idea what you want it to mean initially, but as the game develops these poetic symbols will give you the chance to nudge the meaning of the prophecy.

One of the lines in a prophecy I wrote for a Rise of the Runelords campaign was about a "town that drowns in a fast, green flood." While the players assume it means a coming goblin attack, it could just as easily be a respiratory plague that causes victims to cough up green mucous, or a mysterious magical fog that puts everyone to sleep. Heck, it could even be that green tea merchants begin running a lucrative trading route through town and the townsfolk start making loads of money off the extra business.

There are a lot of ways to handle prophecies but I think you have to start with what you want it to do in the game. From there, a lot of your other questions will be answered.

[Liam Warner]

Duncan888 wrote:

I been trying to come up with a prophesy.

Something like...

When the champion falls.
Hero's revealed.
Alliances broken.
Allies found.
A city in peril.
An artifact created.
Sacrifices done.
A dragon slain.

Then the shadow of evil can be driven from this world forever.

Now I don't want to spoon feed the plot to my party. But I want some kind of prophesy that includes the above.

How about

Courage revealed when the greatest ones fall.
Hope and new friends, found in the ruins of old.
Darkness gathers round stones of all.
Crafting new hearts through the loss of those dear.
The winged serpent falls but evil draws near.

As others have said though without knowing more details its not easy.

[Duncan888]

All great ideas thx