I'm planning on acquiring a devil imp at level 7. I plan to use him for scouting ahead as he can go invisible at will, and I plan to use him for wielding a wand of Ill Omen in battle and if we need it a wand of CLW (but probably not). Is following up with the familiar with a save or suck spell a good idea if the familiar uses Ill Omen? Also what other uses would you use the Devil Imp for?
The Ill Omen is a bad plan if the target has any ranks in Spellcraft. A wand of Ill Omen is by default level 1 so only affects one dice roll. If they have Spellcraft they'll get a die roll to identify your followup spell, and not on the save itself.
Ahh good to know. How should I use my familiar? I've never had one before
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I'm pretty sure the above comment about spellcraft is incorrect as you identify the spell as it is being cast not after the completion of the spell.
The best for UMD is the azata it as it has 20 cha which works well targeting with ill omen before you hit with your spell. Consider a wand key ring for any improved familiar. They are good for scouting. They can be good at making backup checks if you fail or checks for their own skill if you pick a sage familiar. I have used acid arrow wands as extra damage on casters.
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I'm pretty sure the above comment about spellcraft is incorrect as you identify the spell as it is being cast not after the completion of the spell.
The spellcraft check is against whatever comes after the Ill Omen. How it works is like this.
Imp casts Ill Omen. Next d20 the enemy wizard needs to make is roll twice take worst.
You start casting Hold Person. Enemy wizard attempts spellcraft check, and rolls twice and takes worst because of the Ill Omen. Then he rolls a normal saving throw against Hold Person (instead of rolling twice and taking worst).
Spellcraft is trained only so a lot of enemies won't be able to do that anyway.
As an aside, how much would a CL5 wand of ill omen cost?
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If the Ill Omen is followed up by a Slumber Hex, Ice Tomb Hex, or Misfortune Hex I do not believe they get to Spellcraft it. They are Su abilities and are not spells being cast.
Also true
If the Ill Omen is followed up by a Slumber Hex, Ice Tomb Hex, or Misfortune Hex I do not believe they get to Spellcraft it. They are Su abilities and are not spells being cast.
Wow nice play. So your saying someone in the group (or my familiar) should have a wand of ill omen and I could follow it up with a slumber or misfortune for the win?
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If the Ill Omen is followed up by a Slumber Hex, Ice Tomb Hex, or Misfortune Hex I do not believe they get to Spellcraft it. They are Su abilities and are not spells being cast.Wow nice play. So your saying someone in the group (or my familiar) should have a wand of ill omen and I could follow it up with a slumber or misfortune for the win?
Yes, this is why I suggested Improved familiar about a month ago in the other threads. It's a way to land a Hex without dedicating a feat to Accursed Hex if you are tight on Feats. And since your spellbook is your familiar you always want to make them stronger and have ways of staying out of reach (Flight, Invisibility, ext)
I know you're looking for Items to buy...A stone Familiar is a great Item to backup your spellbook in case the DM wants to gank it you will at least have your spells till you can replace the familiar.
If the Ill Omen is followed up by a Slumber Hex, Ice Tomb Hex, or Misfortune Hex I do not believe they get to Spellcraft it. They are Su abilities and are not spells being cast.Wow nice play. So your saying someone in the group (or my familiar) should have a wand of ill omen and I could follow it up with a slumber or misfortune for the win?Yes, this is why I suggested Improved familiar about a month ago in the other threads. It's a way to land a Hex without dedicating a feat to Accursed Hex if you are tight on Feats. And since your spellbook is your familiar you always want to make them stronger and have ways of staying out of reach (Flight, Invisibility, ext)
I know you're looking for Items to buy...A stone Familiar is a great Item to backup your spellbook in case the DM wants to gank it you will at least have your spells till you can replace the familiar.
Ya I remember u mentioning how good the improved familiar was, I just didn't know if he wielded a wand of Ill Omen followed up by my Slumber/Misfortune would work without a saving throw. It says Spell Resistance does apply for Ill Oman, how would that work if I followed up with a slumber/misfortune? Just this single ability of the improved familiar would make it worth it never mind the hundred other things it can do.
The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.
The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.
this...
If you recognize a SR creature via Know check, cast Ill Omen yourself, sprinkle in some D. Essence with your Invoker ability and blow through it...then follow with a hex or spell.
But the typical fighter, mook, ext probably will fall to an Ill omen Wand from familiar followed by a Hex.
People very rarely have SR its more of a concern with monsters. The only way I know to get passable SR without having to precast it on yourself without being some crazy race is to play a Abomination Psychic
The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.this...
If you recognize a SR creature via Know check, cast Ill Omen yourself, sprinkle in some D. Essence with your Invoker ability and blow through it...then follow with a hex or spell.
But the typical fighter, mook, ext probably will fall to an Ill omen Wand from familiar followed by a Hex.
If I do the Ill Omen myself with my invoker ability, that's my standard action right there? When do I use my slumber?
If I do the Ill Omen myself with my invoker ability, that's my standard action right there? When do I use my slumber?The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.this...
If you recognize a SR creature via Know check, cast Ill Omen yourself, sprinkle in some D. Essence with your Invoker ability and blow through it...then follow with a hex or spell.
But the typical fighter, mook, ext probably will fall to an Ill omen Wand from familiar followed by a Hex.
The following round. Because it affects multiple rolls cause you cast it. Either way, they are debuffed. Even if they use it up with their attack. You still accomplish your goal of Debuffing either way. It is basically win/win for you. You also have a bomber who can follow you up and make use of the Ill Omen.
Surely by the next round that Ill Omen would have been discharged though before I could cast myself with the Omens benefit. The bomber ya that would work, u have a good memory lol
Surely by the next round that Ill Omen would have been discharged though before I could cast myself with the Omens benefit. The bomber ya that would work, u have a good memory lol
Look at it this way:
You are forced to cast ill Omen to blow through SR-
Scenario 1: Bomber goes after you and lands a bomb on target due to rolling twice and taking worst. Win
Scenario 2: Creature Full attacks and misses most if not all his attacks. Win
Scenario 3: Your turn comes around and still has Ill Omen up and you land a Hex. Win.
Scenario 4: Creature IDs he has been Ill Omened and wastes his move action to dispel it and doesn't get a full attack. Still, a Win as you debuffed his action economy.
I really don't see a loss if you're forced to fight SR yourself. But the normal will be that the familiar + Wand is enough for a majority of your targets.
Ya good idea guys. I still end up ahead and I will definitely take Quicken Spell at level 9 even if its just for Ill Omen. Quicken Ill Omen with a Slumber Hex seems very good.
The following round. Because it affects multiple rolls cause you cast it. Either way, they are debuffed. Even if they use it up with their attack. You still accomplish your goal of Debuffing either way. It is basically win/win for you. You also have a bomber who can follow you up and make use of the Ill Omen.If I do the Ill Omen myself with my invoker ability, that's my standard action right there? When do I use my slumber?The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.this...
If you recognize a SR creature via Know check, cast Ill Omen yourself, sprinkle in some D. Essence with your Invoker ability and blow through it...then follow with a hex or spell.
But the typical fighter, mook, ext probably will fall to an Ill omen Wand from familiar followed by a Hex.
Louise what do you mean if affects multiple rolls? Ill Oman only affects "the next roll", as opposed to Misfortune which affects multiple rolls. Misfortune sounds like Ill Oman on steroids.
Louise what do you mean if affects multiple rolls? Ill Oman only affects "the next roll", as opposed to Misfortune which affects multiple rolls. Misfortune sounds like Ill Oman on steroids.The following round. Because it affects multiple rolls cause you cast it. Either way, they are debuffed. Even if they use it up with their attack. You still accomplish your goal of Debuffing either way. It is basically win/win for you. You also have a bomber who can follow you up and make use of the Ill Omen.If I do the Ill Omen myself with my invoker ability, that's my standard action right there? When do I use my slumber?The Ill Omen has to get over the SR, slumber doesn't they don't change how eachother interacts with SR.this...
If you recognize a SR creature via Know check, cast Ill Omen yourself, sprinkle in some D. Essence with your Invoker ability and blow through it...then follow with a hex or spell.
But the typical fighter, mook, ext probably will fall to an Ill omen Wand from familiar followed by a Hex.
Here is ill Omen
You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. For every five caster levels you have, the target must roll twice on an additional d20 roll (to a maximum of five rolls at 20th level).
Level 9 has been achieved and it is time to get Quicken Spell
So when you get to be high enough level to cast a Quickened Ill Omen without using a Metamagic Rod or some ability that reduces the cost of metamagic(*), your Ill Omen affects 2 d20 rolls, and after 1 more level, it affects 3 d20 rolls.
(*)Not a bad idea to get these, if you can afford to.
(Exception: If you are a Hexcrafter Magus instead of a Witch, then when you get to be high enough level as noted above, then your Ill Omen affects 3 d20 rolls, and after 2 more levels, it affects 4 d20 rolls.)
Since the wording of Ill Omen specifies "for every five caster levels you have" instead of "per caster level" for the effect, I wonder if this means only your normal (unboosted) caster level, or if you can take advantage of something that would boost your effective caster level beyond your normal caster level?
Ill Omen is a spell practically designed to go into wands that Familiars use right before their master drops a Save or Suck spell. It's a fantastic tactic. Absolutely a Slumber Witch staple.