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Oh! Also non-evil from memory: some haunts (different than ghosts; I think most of the non-evil ones are CN, but I could be wrong), wyrmskull (Legacy of Fire; also the skeletal warriors it creates apparently aren't evil, or don't make it evil, based off of circumstantial evidence), deathweb (all of these are neutral, actually), taiga giant's ancestral spirits (detects as undead, according to RotR, part four; these clearly do not turn them evil), and ectoplasmic creatures (the one in the bestiary is statted up a N).
Also:
Some enlightened members of the faith, particularly monks, are so aware of their own bodily processes that they can sense their approaching death from old age, knowing in advance the day or even the hour they will pass. A few of these wise folk employ a method of self-mummification, using a diet of poisonous nuts and teas that prevents their corpses from putrefying after death. These masters of life and death leave behind their bodies to watch over Irori’s temples, and in some cases these bodies animate as mummies to defend the temple against threads. These dried but perfectly preserved Iroran mummies are extraordinarily rare, and their magical attacks have no effect on Irori’s worshipers, but otherwise they have nearly the same statistics as normal mummies.
Re: that one vampire: yes, but he's under the control of others and explicitly seeks redemption (much like a vampire in CoT, actually, though no provisions were made for that one). Nonetheless, point acknowledged!
Mentioning Ghosts, from the first nine APs, there are non-evil ghost in:
- Rise of the Runelord
- Curse of the Crimson Throne (at least three, actually - one that is well known, two in part five)
- Second Darkness
(none in LoF, CoT, KM)
- Serpent's Skull
- Carrion Crown (two, though you only meet one)
- Jade Regent
That's, six out of nine!
Also, the original spirit vessels:
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. Necromancy spells that create undead lose the evil descriptor when you cast them. Mindless undead created by your magic are of neutral alignment, while thinking undead possess your alignment. When using the animate dead spell, you can control 6 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level rather than 4 HD. In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar spells possess maximum hit points.
My earlier comment...regarding the meta versus in setting reason can basically be boiled down to: as a distinct game, Starfinder doesn't really need to explain why stuff works differently, especially minor points that are likely, setting wise, not going to show up much (It sounds like most undead are likely to be evil anyway...it's just not a hard rule).
If anything, I actually prefer that stuff being handwaved away. DnD often created elaborate in-setting reasons on why stuff changes between editions, but were those changes really needed or appreciated?
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Thought I should throw in the LN vampire Victae Cobaru from City of Strangers, though that's a pretty dated text.
Also leng ghouls are said to occasionally be non-evil:
Although most Leng ghouls venerate the Great Old Ones or Outer Gods (they have a particular affinity for Nyarlathotep), a rare few of these creatures retain Loren of their humanity than merely living intellect. These unique few drift away from evil in their pursuit of magical lore—while they still hunger for dead flesh, many try their best to feed only on those who died naturally or willingly offered themselves up to the carrion feast in return for favors. While many eventually succumb to the temptations to feed on fresh kills in time, a rare few manage to maintain nonevil alignments.
This is described in a world-neutral sourcebook, but Leng ghouls have also appeared in Golarion (Into the Nightmare Rift and I think maybe Strange Aeons?) so I don't think it should be discounted.
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Tropes can be overused, and again, other media does not dictate what Golarion should do.
certainly «all undeads are evil» is an overused one.
I am going to use all caps this time, since it seems you skip this part of my argument every time.
FINE. BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT PATHFINDER, THE SETTING NEUTRAL RULEBOOK, NOT JUST ABOUT GOLARION, THE SETTING.
I don't know what to make of BotN anymore, since it considers Vampire a race rather than a template.
It is clearly a valid book, thst does not vonsider Vampires a race, but compares a certain aspect of the vampire's template to a similsr aspect of races: being (or not being) [Evil].
A different thing, tho, is if you want to discredit the book because it goes against your preffered style of undeads. That has nothing to do with its validity as a canon golarion sourcebpok.
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This just shows the problem with making broad brush rules and statements. "All X are Y" is, in general, an unnecesary restriction, that blocks further development of stories. Then you break said rules, because of a narrative need, and people argue
«Most X are Y» is a much better approach, imho. It gives the storytellers (ie: the GM) more breathing room for stories. A brearhing room that, as seen in a few posts above, even writers of Golarion APs need from time to time.
The fact that Vampires can't fear fire, because fear is mind affecting and someone decided that all undeads are inmune, is an unnecesary plot resteiction. Broad brushes are dangerous, specially when applied to wide and varied classes of monsters, such as «undeads». A Wraith, an Skeleton, a vampire and a spiritual ghost ancestor have little in common.
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Guys, undead aren't evil because Aroden came back as an undead and him being evil violates the nature of the Universe. This caused a paradox that made countless alternate universe collide and form a single universe, where undead aren't all evil.
Oh, and it made Golarion disappear and the Gap happen.
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From the Q &A on Reddit a few days ago:
Me:Is necromancy (specifically, creating zombies, skeletons, or other forms of undead) still an evil act in Starfinder?
Owen Stephens: Not automatically. It certainly can be, and lots and lots of undead are evil. But it's not universal, and there might well be gray-area cases where there's a non-evil justification for creating undead. It's just not the way to place your bets.
Fools! We've done it! WE'VE TRICKED THEM ALL! AHAHAHA!
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This just shows the problem with making broad brush rules and statements. "All X are Y" is, in general, an unnecesary restriction, that blocks further development of stories. Then you break said rules, because of a narrative need, and people argue.
Blanket immunities are another 'all X are Y' case that annoys me, because they inevitably lead to corner-case exceptions. Vermin are mindless, except when Duergar can train spiders to ride, and a dozen more exceptions quickly creep in with feats like Vermin Heart, or insect/arachnid companions or familiars or various races (like Mites) being able to 'Vermin Empathy' creatures that should not ever have been made Mindless and immune to all sorts of mind/emotion effects in the first place, since we *know* that insects and arachnids can have Int-based skills like Craft (and skills in general, and even *social* behaviors/skills like Intimidate!) and experience conditions like fear or attraction.
'X is immune to fire!' Except that there's a spell that bypasses part of that, and a feat that allows you to bypass some of that, or make your fire into plasma or hellfire, or a class/archetype that allows your fire to 'burn so hot it burns immune creatures' in which case you've just created a ton of new rules and content to get around one arbitrary immunity that wasn't strictly needed.
And that's just mechanical stuff, the nonsense Nonabilities and overly broad classes of Immunity splashed around and invalidating entire classes and builds.
Restricting *behaviors* with flavor, and forbidden *any* member of race X from coloring outside of it's tiny little flavor/alignment/culture-box is a strange sort of reductionist decision. (And yes, sometimes to make art, it's not about using *all* the colors in your crayon-box, and it's the *lines* that define the picture, but this is cooperative storytelling, and for products that are *not* set in Golarion, such as the base Pathfinder line, to be saddled with restrictions that literally matter nowhere else, seems like the cart pulling the horse.)
Even creatures with alignment *subtypes,* like demons, who are kind of made up out of elemental evil (and chaos), and formed out of human corruption and suffering by an endless dimension of pure evil (and chaos) can change their alignments. Undead? Powered by negative energy, which isn't even a little bit evil, and literally never has been.
Yeah, undead have been 'traditionally evil' since 3.5, when skeletons and zombies were made evil so that, in the words of the developer, *paladins could smite them.* That's a pretty darn selective definition of 'traditionally,' since, to those of us who have been playing since 1st edition, it's a new retcon, like claiming that Marilyn Manson invented Sweet Dreams are Made of This, or that Brian Bendis created the character of Luke Cage, or that we've always been at war with Eastasia. :)