What Races Made it Off Golarion?

[Gnomatsu]

Has it been mentioned yet what races made it off Golarion before it vanished, in sizes viable enough to maintain a population.

I'm presuming all the major races like humans, dwarves, elves and gnomes.

But what about the many minor races like lizard folk and kitsune for example.

Also what about "evil" races like Orcs or the many denizens of the darklands.

[rando1000]

Well, there are space goblins in the Starfinder: First Contact PDF, so that's one.

[Mystic_Snowfang]

rando1000 wrote:

Well, there are space goblins in the Starfinder: First Contact PDF, so that's one.

now I wonder...

We be (space) goblins?

[Torbyne]

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

[Remy P Gilbeau]

Because of the Elf-gates, there was a lot of cross-pollination of Golarion species across the Pact worlds. You could already find lizardfolk adapted to Akiton, Drakes on Triaxus, Anhegs on the moons Liavara, even a population of Golarions on Aballon. Anything that could stumble through an unassuming looking archway could conceivably have made a foothold off planet.

Go nuts. They're all out there somewhere.

[Ouachitonian]

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

[IonutRO]

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

There are gnomes on Triaxus, as well as some non-humanoid creatures such as adlets and giants.

Then there's the lizardfolk and humans of Akiton, as well as other creatures living there such as girallons.

And finally, all of the standard D&D races (or most at least) exist on Droffa/Androffa, since it started out as a homebrew D&D world for James Jacobs' games.

Oh, and of course most of these races exist in Earth folklore, so at one point they no doubt were present on Earth as well.

[Torbyne]

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Primarily with humans, but we know that they are on multiple planets across at least two galaxies, in the local system we know that humans, elves and lizardfolk all had multi-planet presences as far back as the Pathfinder era and that was off barely any information on off planet locations. It is enough to say that, barring specific exceptions, no species should be considered unique to a single planet. Whether by the gods planting races, magical transportation, ancient technologies, whatever, there is justification for anything from Golarian making it off world or even independently developing on a separate world (which seems to be what happened on Androffa).

I worked out the known math in another thread a while back but i think we placed the Androffan Humans as having intergalactic ships at least 15,000 years prior to Starfinder. Since that timeline was figured out we have heard that there have actually been a few centuries since the gap and the gap itself is probably in the future of the current Pathfinder era, so i would be comfortable saying intergalactic travel has been achievable for closer to 20,000 years prior to the setting of Starfinder. This isnt even counting things with natural FTL abilities like the space moths and space whales which have been used as starships prior to the Pathfinder era. So we shouldnt be surprised by any previously thought extinct species suddenly popping up with exploring the great unknown.

[David knott 242]

Interplanetary travel was clearly a thing during the Gap. In the absence of something keeping a race confined to a single planet, we can assume that every race has at least a minimum breeding population on every planet with a big enough overall population.

So, unless something is keeping certain races confined to a single planet, the removal of any single planet should not eliminate any races.

For races of hybrid origin, it is not even necessary for them to exist on other planets as long as their parent races do.

[Umbral Reaver]

Was Drift travel invented before, during or after the gap?

[David knott 242]

After, I think.

You can check with somebody who has the PDF to confirm that (and ask other questions).

[Torbyne]

Pretty sure its after the gap per the information revealed in the gods preview? There was in system space flight prior to the Gap but it is after that Triune ascends, the Gap is made available and that triggered a lot of first contacts and a few larger scale wars that lead up to the Pact worlds as they are at the start of the game.

[Ouachitonian]

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

I mean, that's a precedent for *a* race. But it's not precedent for *all* races, which was what I was asking. There's no reason to assume, from the fact that elves also live on Castrovel, that Strix, Nagaji, Kitsunes, etc are all also spread over multiple worlds.

[Pax Rafkin]

I like to think that city from Planescape exists in every setting. So your options are unlimited!

[Wei Ji the Learner]

All I'm saying is that tengu better have made it.

Just sayin'.

[Torbyne]

Ouachitonian wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

I mean, that's a precedent for *a* race. But it's not precedent for *all* races, which was what I was asking. There's no reason to assume, from the fact that elves also live on Castrovel, that Strix, Nagaji, Kitsunes, etc are all also spread over multiple worlds.

Well, at least elves, humans, gnomes and lizardfolk. we also havent even considered yet interplanar travel but does anyone really think there arent dwarf colonies on the plane of earth? And the main assumption i was making wasnt so much that we already know some races were established off planet, its that they have been doing the interplanetary travel thing for so long that its very feasible for any race that wanted too get to a new world to do so. Also, again, the the best of our knowledge, the Androffans had no connection to either Earth or Golarian but instead were placed or developed/evolved independently on their planet a whole galaxy over which kind of requires the gods to have purposefully planeted humans there. given the scale of the universe its safe to assume that some god somewhere has established a colony of just about every kind of species imaginable. Some of the gods might even feel a duty to spread back up caches of sentient species around just to prevent them from getting "Gap'd"

This also doesnt take into account that there is, apparently, an Azlanti Star Empire which could also have taken other races along with them when they established their off world colonies.

[David knott 242]

And all of these things are ways to get various races to places outside the Golarion/Pact Worlds solar system, which is far more than you need to do to keep a race present in the setting. Castrovel, Akiton, Verces, Triaxus, and various moons of Liavara and Bretheda are all habitable and could all be reached by non-Drift spacecraft during the Gap.

[Remy P Gilbeau]

Ouachitonian wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

I mean, that's a precedent for *a* race. But it's not precedent for *all* races, which was what I was asking. There's no reason to assume, from the fact that elves also live on Castrovel, that Strix, Nagaji, Kitsunes, etc are all also spread over multiple worlds.

You seem to be misunderstanding the history of the elf gates. Yes, they were made by the elves, but they made a LOT of these things. Hundreds, scattered all over every planet in the solar system, and they were absolutely awful at keeping track of them. For every one they still knew about and kept under proper guard, there were dozens of "lost" elf gates, just hanging out in random forests, deserts, caves, jungles, ruins; still functional and just waiting for someone to trip through.

Most elf gates weren't used by elves anymore even in Pathfinder times. They were in the hands of whatever race happened to have found them.

And that aside from the mentioned spaceship age before the Gap and the loss of Golarion.

[Ltfngr]

An underlying assumption is running in these questions. Everything does not originate from Golarion. Golarion is the primary source for the adventure paths/Starfinder Society adventures. For personal campaigns, however, it depends on your gamemaster.

As already stated by some of the comments, ratfolk and elves came from other worlds. Nothing prevents a tiefling from another world being around, for instance. Depending on the campaign, that tiefling may be rare or common.

Again, the gamemaster makes the call. I don't think Paizo will need to restrict a thing on this. The only restriction, honestly, is 'official stats' aka the Alien Archive, or deciding what third party supplement your gamemaster incorporates into the campaign if not making the stats up on his or her own.

[Luna Protege]

Remy P Gilbeau wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Ouachitonian wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

there are rules to allow any race from Pathfinder to be played in Starfinder and in the setting there is a clear precedence that no race is unique to just one planet either so if there is one from Golarian that you really want to see it could be a specimen from another world that found their way to the mega beacon that is Absalom Station. as far as default assumptions go, there are representatives from all species from Golarian still in the system but we dont have anything on most of their population numbers as of yet.

How so? I'm struggling to see how there could be such a precedent.

Elves. Literally all elves are aliens. And their gates are the major method of cross-planet exploration, which has definitely occurred a few times (notably are the ratfolk, who exist on Akiton and Golarion and are the same race). Hell, humans may even be aliens to Golarion as well.

I mean, that's a precedent for *a* race. But it's not precedent for *all* races, which was what I was asking. There's no reason to assume, from the fact that elves also live on Castrovel, that Strix, Nagaji, Kitsunes, etc are all also spread over multiple worlds.

You seem to be misunderstanding the history of the elf gates. Yes, they were made by the elves, but they made a LOT of these things. Hundreds, scattered all over every planet in the solar system, and they were absolutely awful at keeping track of them. For every one they still knew about and kept under proper guard, there were dozens of "lost" elf gates, just hanging out in random forests, deserts, caves, jungles, ruins; still functional and just waiting for someone to trip through.

Most elf gates weren't used by elves anymore even in Pathfinder times. They were in the hands of whatever race happened to have found them.

And that aside from the mentioned spaceship age before the Gap and the loss of Golarion.

Sounds like a weird idea for a campaign. Just... A party that keeps tripping over forgotten and lost elf gates so frequently that they're just constantly asking "right, what planet are we on now?"

... Followed by the native inhabitants wondering what planet these crazy people came from.

[Torbyne]

Luna Protege wrote:

Sounds like a weird idea for a campaign. Just... A party that keeps tripping over forgotten and lost elf gates so frequently that they're just constantly asking "right, what planet are we on now?"

... Followed by the native inhabitants wondering what planet these crazy people came from.

Campaign nothing, that is basically the premise of the entire setting in Planescape. They even had slang just for clueless wanderers who stumbled through a random gate.

[Herald]

It might be easier to ask which ones didn't make it off the planet, but as soon as that list is created, someone it going to create the "last one of their race" character.

[Torbyne]

Ltfngr wrote:

An underlying assumption is running in these questions. Everything does not originate from Golarion. Golarion is the primary source for the adventure paths/Starfinder Society adventures. For personal campaigns, however, it depends on your gamemaster.

As already stated by some of the comments, ratfolk and elves came from other worlds. Nothing prevents a tiefling from another world being around, for instance. Depending on the campaign, that tiefling may be rare or common.

Again, the gamemaster makes the call. I don't think Paizo will need to restrict a thing on this. The only restriction, honestly, is 'official stats' aka the Alien Archive, or deciding what third party supplement your gamemaster incorporates into the campaign if not making the stats up on his or her own.

While what you say is true, the GM of your game makes the call, but when you ask on the forums about something specific to Golarion we answer based on established canon for the core setting. From the known setting lore and known rules we have this:

- Multiple species have had access to at least interplanetary scale travel for at least 16,000 years.

- There are at least five species with a known multi-planet presences within the core system going back several thousand years.

- There are at least four methods established that could be used throughout history to enable continuous travel between planets that dont rely on super advanced technology which seems to be historically rarer than powerful magic (Elf Gates, Space Whales, Space Moths, the interplanetary teleport spell)

- We know there is an Azlanti Star Empire that apparently colonized from Golarion in the distant past, its reasonable to assume they took other races and creatures with them but is yet unknown.

- Outside of the lore, the Starfinder Core Rulebook has been stated to include a section on how to bring legacy races that are not features as core any more into the game and adjust them for play. We do not know if this will have a specific listing of what races can be moved up or if its more of a general thing such as first contact's quick fix rules. This portion may or may not spell out if some of Golarion's races are thought to be extinct. even if they are thought to be gone by the Pact Worlds however we have already established enough ways for any sapient species to have made it off world and have unknown colonies kicking about in the Vast.

So in answer to the original question, it is a poor assumption that even in the Pathfinder era any of those races would be solely present on Golarion.

[Torbyne]

Herald wrote:

It might be easier to ask which ones didn't make it off the planet, but as soon as that list is created, someone it going to create the "last one of their race" character.

Why not one up the "last of their race" trope and go fifth element with it? "Yeah, i was rebuilt based of a scrap of perfect DNA preserved in a fragment of bone. Mostly because they wanted to see if they could." :)

[Luna Protege]

Torbyne wrote:

Herald wrote:

It might be easier to ask which ones didn't make it off the planet, but as soon as that list is created, someone it going to create the "last one of their race" character.

Why not one up the "last of their race" trope and go fifth element with it? "Yeah, i was rebuilt based of a scrap of perfect DNA preserved in a fragment of bone. Mostly because they wanted to see if they could." :)

There's also the rare possibility that due to a fluke of luck, tiny scraps of a race's DNA that interbred with existing ones happened to by chance coalesce into a human giving birth to a member of those races.

Humans in particular seem to have picked up a reputation as, for want of a better term... Quite erudite xenophiles.

There's also the possibility that a bunch of people in awe with a certain race's form could polymorph themselves into that form, and just... Stay in it. And then make lots of children.

[Umbral Reaver]

How often did the Dominion of the Black (an interstellar organisation dating back to Golarion's prehistory) move populations around and make 'cult worlds'? That totally could have done that. I'm going to write cult worlds. Founded in the name of some unspeakable thing, but time changes all and especially with the gap, there are lots of divergent cultures there now. And not all of them are immediately hostile to foreigners. :)

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

How often did the Dominion of the Black (an interstellar organisation dating back to Golarion's prehistory) move populations around and make 'cult worlds'? That totally could have done that. I'm going to write cult worlds. Founded in the name of some unspeakable thing, but time changes all and especially with the gap, there are lots of divergent cultures there now. And not all of them are immediately hostile to foreigners. :)

"Have you heard the Good Word of our Great Saviour, Zon-Kthulhu? They bring blessed teaching pain to those who have fallen from divine grace, and blessed relief to those who remain TRUE to the divine path. Here's a pamphlet. Meetings are at Tuesday at 0700. Don't be late, you'll miss the Spiked Chain competition!"

[Torbyne]

You all just made me think of a penal colony world that was forgotten about during the Gap and just became Space-Australia in my setting.

[Luthorne]

Remember that aiudara/elf gates aren't actually interplanetary, and are actually based off of even older portals that link all the worlds in Golarion's system, which elves (Castrovel to Golarion), lashunta (Castrovel to Akiton), and contemplatives of Ashok (Akiton to Golarion) have all learned to utilize specific ones to some extent...and it's thought by some these portals predate life in Golarion's system. From what I recall in Distant Worlds, there's a weird one on Apostae that might be a message or test from the creators, but no one had cracked it back then. I'm rather curious to see if Starfinder will shed any light on it. Hmm, I think it was mentioned there's a sporadic one from Aballon to Golarion too that occasionally opens up and sucks people in? I vaguely recall some sort of small enclave kept habitable by a wizard or something for people who get stuck there, maybe in a crater...? I really need to reread sometime.

[David knott 242]

One interesting question would be which races are explicitly said to have originated on Golarion? So far, only humans and goblins are confirmed (from First Contact). I am sure that we will get several more in the core rulebook.

[Torbyne]

Luthorne wrote:

Remember that aiudara/elf gates aren't actually interplanetary, and are actually based off of even older portals that link all the worlds in Golarion's system, which elves (Castrovel to Golarion), lashunta (Castrovel to Akiton), and contemplatives of Ashok (Akiton to Golarion) have all learned to utilize specific ones to some extent...and it's thought by some these portals predate life in Golarion's system. From what I recall in Distant Worlds, there's a weird one on Apostae that might be a message or test from the creators, but no one had cracked it back then. I'm rather curious to see if Starfinder will shed any light on it. Hmm, I think it was mentioned there's a sporadic one from Aballon to Golarion too that occasionally opens up and sucks people in? I vaguely recall some sort of small enclave kept habitable by a wizard or something for people who get stuck there, maybe in a crater...? I really need to reread sometime.

I was under the impression that Apostae had a massive number of gates and at least some of them lead to locations in other systems. I have been thinking of it as the seeder ship from Stargate: Universe, it might very well be the origin point of all of the system's gates. They havent said anything about Apostae in Starfinder yet though so who knows what up with it.

[Torbyne]

David knott 242 wrote:

One interesting question would be which races are explicitly said to have originated on Golarion? So far, only humans and goblins are confirmed (from First Contact). I am sure that we will get several more in the core rulebook.

I dont think either of those races "originated" on Golarion though. There are Golarion Humans and Goblins but has it ever been said that the ones on Akiton migrated from Golarion at some point? There are distant links between Golarion and Earth as well but humans on Earth predate those links by... a lot. And again, Androffa had no links to the Golarion home galaxy prior to the wormhole drive.

[Luthorne]

Torbyne wrote:

Luthorne wrote:

Remember that aiudara/elf gates aren't actually interplanetary, and are actually based off of even older portals that link all the worlds in Golarion's system, which elves (Castrovel to Golarion), lashunta (Castrovel to Akiton), and contemplatives of Ashok (Akiton to Golarion) have all learned to utilize specific ones to some extent...and it's thought by some these portals predate life in Golarion's system. From what I recall in Distant Worlds, there's a weird one on Apostae that might be a message or test from the creators, but no one had cracked it back then. I'm rather curious to see if Starfinder will shed any light on it. Hmm, I think it was mentioned there's a sporadic one from Aballon to Golarion too that occasionally opens up and sucks people in? I vaguely recall some sort of small enclave kept habitable by a wizard or something for people who get stuck there, maybe in a crater...? I really need to reread sometime.

I was under the impression that Apostae had a massive number of gates and at least some of them lead to locations in other systems. I have been thinking of it as the seeder ship from Stargate: Universe, it might very well be the origin point of all of the system's gates. They havent said anything about Apostae in Starfinder yet though so who knows what up with it.

Yeah, I got the impression it was something like a super stargate that could lead to other systems if people knew how to work it - but no one's figured it out. It's been awhile, like I said, I was just raising my eyebrows at people conflating the admittedly impressive aiudara and the ancient portals they were based on. I'll probably browse my copy of Distant Worlds to refresh myself when I get home this evening...well, unless my copy of the Starfinder Core Rulebook ships, in which case I will have other things to read.

[David knott 242]

Torbyne wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

One interesting question would be which races are explicitly said to have originated on Golarion? So far, only humans and goblins are confirmed (from First Contact). I am sure that we will get several more in the core rulebook.

I dont think either of those races "originated" on Golarion though. There are Golarion Humans and Goblins but has it ever been said that the ones on Akiton migrated from Golarion at some point? There are distant links between Golarion and Earth as well but humans on Earth predate those links by... a lot. And again, Androffa had no links to the Golarion home galaxy prior to the wormhole drive.

I am going by immediate origin rather than ultimate origin here. I don't think we know the ultimate origins of any of the major races.

I suspect that the only candidates for Golarion only races would be those whose ancestry can be traced back solely to Absalom Station.

[Alexander Augunas]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

All I'm saying is that tengu better have made it.

Just sayin'.

While you're waiting for Paizo to answer that question for you officially, feel free to use the Starfarer's Companion, by Rogue Genius Games in your home games to fill the void in your soul for many of your favorite misfit Paizo races. :D

[Cole Deschain]

Considering the Azlanti Star Empire is a thing... preeeeeeetty sure you can justify just about anybody making it off-world in time.

[rando1000]

Torbyne wrote:

Luna Protege wrote:

Sounds like a weird idea for a campaign. Just... A party that keeps tripping over forgotten and lost elf gates so frequently that they're just constantly asking "right, what planet are we on now?"

... Followed by the native inhabitants wondering what planet these crazy people came from.

Campaign nothing, that is basically the premise of the entire setting in Planescape.

Also very similar to the premise of the TV show Sliders, subbing worlds for dimensions.