I have some questions about how the Shadow Double functions. Here's the rules text:
Shadow Double (Sp): An ankou’s shadow can take a full-round action to create a single, quasi-real, shadowy duplicate. This shadow double remains in his square, mimicking his movements as a single mirror image, except that it lasts until it is destroyed or he chooses to dismiss it as a swift action. This ability does not stack with the mirror image spell or with similar abilities, such as the copycat ability of the Trickery domain.
At 5th level, an ankou’s shadow gains a second shadow double. In addition to using these shadow doubles as mirror images in his square, he can move his doubles as part of his own move action, dividing his movement between himself and his doubles. When outside his square, shadow doubles do not protect the ankou’s shadow as mirror image and are limited in the actions they can take....
1.) Can I use any form of movement for the shadows, or ONLY a move action?
Can I split a run/withdrawal?
Can I split a charge?
Can a shadow 5-foot step?
2.) Can I leave a shadow in my square as I move (dividing the movement as 30/0)?
3.) If so, can I do it only as part of a move action or can I 5-foot step, run, withdrawal, etc. and leave a shadow in my original square?
4.) Can two shadows share the same square without me, and can they mimic each other's movements?
5.) Can this ability be used with the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat?
1.) Can I use any form of movement for the shadows, or ONLY a move action?
Can I split a run/withdrawal?
Can I split a charge?
Can a shadow 5-foot step?
My guess is no: Given the context, the kind of 'move action' it wants is the actual 'action' called move, rather than simply a move action as a portion of the turn, or any action made to actually move. As such, you cannot split runs/withdraws/charges, all of which are full-round actions, nor can you split a 5-foot step, which is not an action.
2.) Can I leave a shadow in my square as I move (dividing the movement as 30/0)?
You may. If you do so, of course, the shadow loses the ability to protect you as a mirror image.
3.) If so, can I do it only as part of a move action or can I 5-foot step, run, withdrawal, etc. and leave a shadow in my original square?
See the answer to 1, but I would be more than willing to say leaving a shadow behind is something you can do readily.
4.) Can two shadows share the same square without me, and can they mimic each other's movements?
They seem like they can, but they do not protect each other.
5.) Can this ability be used with the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat?
Yes and no. It's a spell-like ability, so on those grounds it can be selected. However, as it does not replicate a precise spell, its effective spell level is equal to half your class level, and thus you will never actually reach the class level required to quicken it since it is always right behind you.
@Saethori
1: That's what I figured. It's a very unique ability so I'm trying to figure out the absolute limits of what it can do.
2-4: Makes sense.
5: Could you point me to the rules for SLAs that don't mimic spells? Can't seem to find them.
5: Could you point me to the rules for SLAs that don't mimic spells? Can't seem to find them.
Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.
Admittedly, I've found some level of difficulty finding anything stipulating exactly what the highest-level class spell is for classes that do not get spells, There are a lot of assumptions that the class in question can cast spells.
Based on this FAQ, you're supposed to use the highest-level spell you could cast at the level you gain the ability. The Ankou's Shadow gets this at 1st level, but they don't cast spells, so... maybe you treat it as a 1st-level spell. If you do so, you can Quicken it at caster level 10... but as your caster level also does not increase for this spell-like ability, you still never get the chance to quicken it.
So it's a grey area where we're not sure of the spell level or caster level? Though it seems odd to me if the intent is for the effective caster level to stay 1 and not scale. The DC to dispel would never rise above 12.
Makes me wonder why it's a SLA and not just supernatural. Even the shadow clone ninja trick is supernatural.
BUMP with more questions. Here's the rest of the rules text:
Shadow doubles provide flanking for the ankou’s shadow and his allies, but they do not possess teamwork feats or special abilities that alter the effects of flanking or aiding another. As a swift action, the ankou’s shadow can direct his shadow doubles to use the aid another action, using his own base attack bonus plus his Intelligence modifier for the roll. Although a shadow double appears to duplicate the ankou’s shadow’s gear, this gear is part of its form; a shadow double’s gear cannot be destroyed, dropped, or stolen. A shadow double disappears if it ventures more than 50 feet from the ankou’s shadow or if it leaves his line of sight or effect. A shadow double that is hit by an attack roll or takes any damage is destroyed. The AC of a shadow double is equal to the ankou’s shadow’s touch AC, and it has the same CMD and saving throw bonuses as the ankou’s shadow. Shadow doubles possess evasion if the ankou’s shadow does. Mind-affecting effects targeting a shadow double affect the ankou’s shadow instead, though he isn’t affected twice by effects that target both him and a shadow double.
Emphasis mine.
1.) Does each individual shadow use the Aid Another action, or is it only ever a +2 bonus from a single collective Aid Another action even with 2-4 shadows?
2.) Is the aid another action limited to granting a bonus to AC/attacks, or can it be used on skill checks as well?
At 10th level, an ankou’s shadow gains a third shadow double. He can divide his actions between his actual body and his shadow doubles, using them as the origin point for attacks or abilities. For example, an ankou’s shadow making three attacks as a part of a full attack could make his primary attack from his own body and his other two attacks from two of his shadow doubles.
3.) Does this allow the shadows to threaten and make attacks of opportunity on their own? I assume they already threaten before lv10 since they can flank and use aid another, but just couldn't make attacks.
|
Could the shadow doubles do actions other than moving or attacking (i.e. using the spell-like abilities of prestigitation, dancing lights, and ghost sound to make a spectacular, though short, show)?
While unfettered, each shadow double can move and attack as if it were the ankou’s shadow without using any of his actions.
Pretty sure this means the shadows can only move and attack. I don't think they can use any other abilities
If i have a ankou shadow and they have a limited use items and the shadow doubles started using it would it take away from the ankou shadows uses from it or would they have their own daily uses
The shadow double only appears to duplicate your gear, so the shadow double would be unable to use the item.
Could the shadow doubles do actions other than moving or attacking (i.e. using the spell-like abilities of prestigitation, dancing lights, and ghost sound to make a spectacular, though short, show)?
While unfettered, each shadow double can move and attack as if it were the ankou’s shadow without using any of his actions.Pretty sure this means the shadows can only move and attack. I don't think they can use any other abilities
Firstly, I realize I am necro-ing this thread. I've been playing around with some Ankou's Shadow builds, came across this thread during some research, and wanted to continue the conversation.
Secondly, I'm not convinced it's as cut and dry as you think Mellow. The 10th level ability of the Ankou's Shadow reads as follows:
At 10th level, an ankou’s shadow gains a third shadow double. He can divide his actions between his actual body and his shadow doubles, using them as the origin point for attacks or abilities. For example, an ankou’s shadow making three attacks as a part of a full attack could make his primary attack from his own body and his other two attacks from two of his shadow doubles.
By this point in the Ankou's progression, it looks to me like they have the ability to use their shadows to perform several different actions: Movement, Attack, and Abilities. Furthermore, the shadow verbiage goes to the trouble of specifically naming several abilities the shadows can NOT use: Teamwork Feats/Special Abilities that affect Flanking or Aid Another and in the level 20 description it says the shadows cannot use the Shadow Duplicate Ability.
If what I posted above is an indication that the Shadow Duplicates are in fact able to be the origin point of some (if not all) of the Ankou's abilities. I am curious what you all think of this build framework:
20 level Ankou's Shadow / VMC Illusionist Wizard (Phantasm School)
As a refresher, Phantasm School power:
Bedeviling Aura (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura that bedevils your enemies with phantasmal assailants. Enemies within this aura move at half speed, are unable to take attacks of opportunity, and are considered to be flanked. This is a mind-affecting effect. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
For the Arcane Discovery:
Resilient Illusions (Magical Marketplace pg. 18): You are able to conjure illusions so lifelike that they defy disbelief. Anytime a creature tries to disbelieve one of your illusion effects, make a caster level check. Treat the illusion’s save DC as its normal DC or the result of the caster level check, whichever is higher. You must be at least an 8th-level wizard to select this discovery.
I think it'd be fun to use the Decoy Familiar Archetype with this Character or NPC.
Slayer Talents would include Bleeding Sneak Attack, Weapon Focus, Combat Trick, Feat, and you'd probably want Assassinate and anything that helps with Intimidate. I'd also probably go with the TWF Ranger Style with this character. (The build would have to heavily use Talents to make up for Feat loss due to VMC).
Core Feats would include Dazzling Display, Violent Display, Hurtful, and Flensing Strike. Some great additions might be Motivating Display, Shatter Defenses, Terrifying Assassination, and Combat Reflexes.
So, at 20th level when this character/NPC unfetters its shadows... You've potentially have a 30' radius in which all enemies are limited to half speed, can't take AoOs, and are Auto-Flanked. Then each time one of these things attacks it's dealing Sneak Attack which allows it to use Dazzling Display to Shake enemies in a 30' radius (possibly buff allies in a 30' radius), in addition to Sickening the target of the attack, and triggering an additional Swift Action Attack.
Use a Half-Orc with bonuses to Intimidate and the Tusked trait and you've got yourself a very nasty BBEG NPC.
Thoughts?
It does look as though you can have a shadow double use your SLAs from level 10, yes. The level 20 ability limits them to moving and attacking when unfettered though, so that's more limited.
A slayer trying to use their talents to make up for missing feats is going to use a ranger combat style with those talents BTW.
It does look as though you can have a shadow double use your SLAs from level 10, yes. The level 20 ability limits them to moving and attacking when unfettered though, so that's more limited.
Perhaps. I can understand that interpretation. However, if that's the case and the Unfettered Shadows are ONLY ever able to move and attack (no ability use like the level 10 use of duplicates), then why does the writer feel the need to specify that the Unfettered Shadows cannot use the Shadow Duplicate ability?
If the Unfettered Shadows cannot use any abilities, then specifying that they can't use a particular ability is incredibly bad writing and I'd prefer to believe that the authors are better at their jobs than that. YMMV.
Seperately, the text doesn't specify SLAs, it says abilities, which without other qualifiers indicates a range of things beyond just SLAs.
The way I read it:
While unfettered, each shadow double can move and attack as if it were the ankou’s shadow without using any of his actions.
This statement isn't saying the Shadow Doubles somehow lose functionality when Unfettered. It just says to me, now they get their own Move and Attack actions without soaking up the Ankou's own action economy. The writer is adding functionality here, not taking it away.
Worst case scenario, the Shadows Duplicates have their move and attack actions free of charge and the Ankou's Shadow may still have to use his own action economy to use them as the point of origin for his other abilities.
However, if that's the case, again, why specify that they canNOT individually use the Shadow Duplicate ability, which is not an attack and therefore shouldn't be something they can do anyway under such an interpretation. Also keeping in mind that according to the level 10 entry the Ankou's Shadow CAN use any of it's duplicates as the origin point for it's ability to summon new Duplicates. So, the level 20 entry is making a very specific point of saying that the Shadows cannot use that ability on their own; which has significant implications.
A slayer trying to use their talents to make up for missing feats is going to use a ranger combat style with those talents BTW.
I realize. I'm honestly not sure what point you're getting at here.