Hello,
I am just toying with a bloodrager, which I am creating on level 4 for a forum game. There are a few things funny when I consider the rules though.
a) A minor thing as the DM already ruled that in my favour, but the according to the rules as written, the fiendish sorcery trait of tieflings works only for sorcerers, not bloodragers. Given that in the game only the default tiefling is allowed (+2 Dex, Int, -2 Cha) that's a serious pain. Since the tiefling existed before the bloodrager class was introduced, that's an understandable oversight, but it should mention explicitly in the description of both the infernal and the abyssal bloodline for bloodragers that the tiefling's "fiendish sorcery" trait applies to them.
b) The weapon which is kind of implied in the abyssal bloodline is the claws of the bloodrager. How effective that is in rule terms may be debateable. I suspect a greatsword would have far larger impact, but, if you want to actually use the claws, you have the problem that you cannot enchant them using Magic Weapon, because it doesn't work on natural weapons. Magic Fang, which could be used, is not on the bloodrager spell list, however. Either Magic Fang should be on the bloodrager's spell list, or there should be a ruling that Magic Weapon applies to the fangs. (That is both the base spells and the more powerful versions such as Greater Magic Weapon)
c) I don't quite see the point of Rage as bonus spell for a bloodrager. Blood ragers can rage, anyway.
d) The various mali to AC accumulate -6 on 12th level (-4 instead of -2 due to Abyssal Bloodrage (Su), -1 due to size, -1 due to decrease in Dex). On top of that, depending on the base dexterity, they might be in trouble when it comes to fulfilling the prerequisits to dodge. I know there are severe benefits, but is that really balanced? -6 to AC?
And that all on top of the little detail that the bloodrager resistances overlap with the tiefling resistances, which is a serious waste. But that has been the same with aasimar and tiefling sorcerers, anyway. To pick the matching bloodline for the characters origin seems penalised by overlapping boni.
use one of the teifling variants that get str and cha
Lady-J wrote: use one of the teifling variants that get str and cha Yeah, well, Demon-Spawn was my first idea, especially since the character is a demon spawn in story terms, but that's not allowed in that game. Besides, if I did not have the +2 on Dex, I would run into trouble with the Dodge feat on level four, because the implied "Enlarge Person" on self while raging reduces the Dex by 2. I must start out with at least Dex 16 (whilst having enough points to spend on Str, Con and Cha) or live without dodge.
The only rule books allowed are:
PHB
Bestiary 1 &2
Advanced Players Guide
Advanced Class
Advanced Race
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Game Mastery Guide
The alternate racial heritages for tieflings are all in a book called "Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Fiends".
a) Letting your GM fix this is the best way to manage this. New classes often fall into the trap where "race bonuses that seem like they should apply don't." This is easy to fix, but not something the Paizo Design Team feels obligated to address.
b) To enhance natural weapons, an "Amulet of Mighty Fists" is traditional. You can, however, just use your martial weapon proficiencies and ignore that bloodline power (maybe take crossblooded so you can trade it out for something else, this would solve your problem with redundant resistances too.)
c) Rage can be cast on other people.
d) Bloodragers, like Barbarians and Sorcerers generally don't have a great armor class. Barbarians manage by being able to take a hit, Sorcerers manage by staying far away. You're kind of stuck in the middle.
The sense I'm getting is that maybe you don't really want the abyssal bloodline? I know it makes sense with a Tiefling, but you can pick any bloodline you want.
Lady-J wrote: use one of the teifling variants that get str and cha He literally said the variants were not allowed.
You can always cast rage on your friends, so it isn't a complete waste.
I'm not sure which forum this should go in, but definitely not rules. You don't have any rule question in that post.
Chess Pwn wrote: I'm not sure which forum this should go in, but definitely not rules. You don't have any rule question in that post. Advice, probably.
Feuerrabe wrote: (taking another bloodline) clashes with a) (because then the tiefling Fiendish Sorcery trait would not be useful anymore, without which a malus on Cha is devestating) Well, you can always trade Fiendish Sorcery for Prehensile Tail (that's in the ARG) to grab wands out of your pouch. What does Fiendish Sorcery even do for a Bloodrager if it's ruled to work? It's not like Bloodrager Bloodlines key on Charisma like Sorcerer ones do.
Well, thanks for the advice on b) and c).
Unfortunately the advice for d) (taking another bloodline) clashes with a) (because then the tiefling Fiendish Sorcery trait would not be useful anymore, without which a malus on Cha is devestating)
As the inclined reader may have noticed I am in a state of "nerdrage" right now.
Feuerrabe wrote: Unfortunately the advice for d) (taking another bloodline) clashes with a) (because then the tiefling Fiendish Sorcery trait would not be useful anymore, without which a malus on Cha is devestating) Fiendish Sorcery works with the Infernal bloodline. While you don't get the spectacular Str boost of Abyssal, a flaming weapon 3/day is a good start, and the bloodline keeps adding nice things. You might want to trade Fiendish Resistance out for Scaled Skin, to get rid of fire resistance and another resistance in favor of +1 natural AC.
And if this Str boost still tempts you, remember that you can go for Improved Eldritch Heritage (abyssal) at level 11.
PossibleCabbage wrote: Well, you can always trade Fiendish Sorcery for Prehensile Tail (that's in the ARG) to grab wands out of your pouch. What does Fiendish Sorcery even do for a Bloodrager if it's ruled to work? It's not like Bloodrager Bloodlines key on Charisma like Sorcerer ones do. No, but you will likely want to have a 14 on charisma, and you would require to buy a 16 for that using point buy. Given fiendish sorcery you can make do with a 12, buying a 14.
SheepishEidolon wrote: Feuerrabe wrote: Unfortunately the advice for d) (taking another bloodline) clashes with a) (because then the tiefling Fiendish Sorcery trait would not be useful anymore, without which a malus on Cha is devestating) Fiendish Sorcery works with the Infernal bloodline. While you don't get the spectacular Str boost of Abyssal, a flaming weapon 3/day is a good start, and the bloodline keeps adding nice things. You might want to trade Fiendish Resistance out for Scaled Skin, to get rid of fire resistance and another resistance in favor of +1 natural AC.
And if this Str boost still tempts you, remember that you can go for Improved Eldritch Heritage (abyssal) at level 11. I might do that, thanks. What the character is in story terms and in rule terms does not have to be the same after all, as long as the actual powers she has make sense to her.
pick a different race then
Well, you don't need 13 charisma for charisma until level 10, and don't need 14 until 13. You can pretty comfortably start with 12 charisma and invest in a headband or something much later.
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Feuerrabe wrote: No, but you will likely want to have a 14 on charisma, and you would require to buy a 16 for that using point buy. Given fiendish sorcery you can make do with a 12, buying a 14. You can run a bloodrager with 12 CHA no problem. You won't get access to 3rd level spells until 10th level, and by then you can just buy a headband to get you to 14. Could even manage with 11 cha, buying a +2 headband before 7th level when you'd get 2nd level spells.
I would honestly recommend the tail for wands anyway. You get very, very few spells per day, but you have a number of useful spells on your spell list.
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