Bullrush while grappledon the person grappling you

[Chess Pwn]

Can you do it? And what happens if you can?

[Sammy T]

There is no official rule for outside forces acting on either grappled party.

[_Ozy_]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Can you do it? And what happens if you can?

Well, when you're grappled you can't move, and yet when you're grappled you stay adjacent to your grappler. Enforcing both of these rules seems to indicate that you can't bull rush someone while grappled.

Not super clear though.

[Kitty Catoblepas]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Can you do it? And what happens if you can?

Since you can perform a Bull Rush as a standard action, there's no reason you can't Bull Rush (at a -2) someone who is grappling you (assuming a Bull Rush doesn't require 2 hands). Likewise, a Barbarian with the Knockback rage power should be able to Bull Rush his grappler as an attack action.

Presumably, you are no longer grappled if your grappler is outside of grappling range.

[UnArcaneElection]

Found a contradiction in the rules:

Core Rulebook: Glossary: Conditions: Grappled wrote:

{. . .} Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. {. . .}

Core Rulebook: Combat: How Combat Works: Combat Maneuvers: Grapple wrote:

{. . .} If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). {. . .} Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. {. . .}

The first says you can't move and the second says you can, both in the Core Rulebook. Okay, which is it?

If the first is correct except when overridden by a successful Grapple check, that would imply that the only way you can move is if you first reverse the Grapple so that you are the one grappling and thus able to make such a check to maintain the Grapple that you took control of.

[Níðhöggr]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Found a contradiction in the rules:

Core Rulebook: Glossary: Conditions: Grappled wrote:

{. . .} Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. {. . .}

Core Rulebook: Combat: How Combat Works: Combat Maneuvers: Grapple wrote:

{. . .} If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). {. . .} Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. {. . .}

The first says you can't move and the second says you can, both in the Core Rulebook. Okay, which is it?

If the first is correct except when overridden by a successful Grapple check, that would imply that the only way you can move is if you first reverse the Grapple so that you are the one grappling and thus able to make such a check to maintain the Grapple that you took control of.

The former is general rules for everyone with the grappled condition, the latter is specific rules for the controller of a grapple. Specific > General.

[UnArcaneElection]

^ . . . which leads to the conclusion that the only way you can move is if you first reverse the Grapple so that you are the one grappling and thus able to make such a check to maintain the Grapple that you took control of.

[_Ozy_]

Correct, but you don't actually have to move to bull rush someone. You can move if you have movement to do so, but otherwise you just push away the target.

The question is, do the rules enforce the idea that you can't push away your target using a bull rush while grappled?