Hi, currently I am making a caster and was thinking....If I take this trait, can I make any lvl 1 spell into a Cantrip? What I mean is, can I pick mage armor and cast that constantly on myself each day? Or if I pick grease, can I cast that as often as I wan't each day?
Sounds like an awesome trait for any lvl to me! Link to the trait!
An FAQ, for your consideration. ^_^
Hmm, after reading the FAQ........!
Noooo, this means this trait is not as cool as I thought!!!!!!!
So no second level merciful fireball.. HA!
Wayang spellhunter still does that. And you can stack them to drop it even further.
Take a +1 metamagic say toppling smack it on magic missile and apply magical lineage and then wayang spellhunter. Better effect and you can apply your 0 cost metamagics as well.
This is incorrect, both by RAW and RAI.
By RAI, it's strictly wrong, as evidenced by the FAQ in question.
By RAW, it's wrong because if you stack both traits to get the spell below its original level, then magical lineage would therefore be involved in getting the spell level below the original level, which is disallowed by the FAQ.
Basically, don't try to get away with this in any venue.
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Wayang spellhunter still does that. And you can stack them to drop it even further.
Take a +1 metamagic say toppling smack it on magic missile and apply magical lineage and then wayang spellhunter. Better effect and you can apply your 0 cost metamagics as well.
No, Wayang Spellhunter is bound by the same FAQ. It isn't mentioned, because it's in a book that doesn't get FAQs issued. But there's no reason to think it doesn't work the same way.
You can ask your GM, and they might disagree. If this is for PFS, there's already been a campaign clarification issued that Wayang Spellhunter can't reduce a spell's level below the original level.
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Wayang spellhunter still does that. And you can stack them to drop it even further.
Take a +1 metamagic say toppling smack it on magic missile and apply magical lineage and then wayang spellhunter. Better effect and you can apply your 0 cost metamagics as well.
No, Wayang Spellhunter is bound by the same FAQ. It isn't mentioned, because it's in a book that doesn't get FAQs issued. But there's no reason to think it doesn't work the same way.
You can ask your GM, and they might disagree. If this is for PFS, there's already been a campaign clarification issued that Wayang Spellhunter can't reduce a spell's level below the original level.
Magical lineage is bound by the magical lineage faq. Wayang spellhunter is not bound by that.
Mahical lineage only drops the spell level to its original level. That is strictly ok to do. I dont think anyone is against that.
Wayang spellhunter is able to reduce the metamagic cost to below the original spell level. The faq says
Magical Lineage (trait): Can I use this trait to adjust a spell's effective level below the unmodified spell's original level?
No. For example, it won't allow you to alter a wizard's fireball into 2nd-level spell.
Notice how it says nothing about wayang spellhunter. RAI sure it probably should but it doesnt.
You can make the case that the faq disallows any combination involving magical linrage from dropping the spell level lower than original sure.
But wayang can by itself. PFS clarifacations are just houserules for organized play. RAW nothing stops wayang spellhunter from reducing spell level below original.
For instance you could get a 0 level merciful magic missile using wayang spellhunter.
I agree that RAI you are right but not RAW.
So you agree that RAI doesn't allow this, but RAW could allow it. I think that is a good close to the discussion.
[grain of salt] There is a clear intent to the rules and decisions should bend towards intent. I think the goal should be to understand what the rules are, so there can be a group consensus around characters. Looking solely at an interpretation of RAW, while ignoring intent, will lead to a lot of table variation and disappointment when building a character.
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Wayang does not allow reduction below starting RAW.
Thanks. I knew there was something out there, but I didn't remember where.
@Halek - My reason for posting to say it doesn't work is that your original message was just a flat statement of advice saying that it can lower a spell below original spell level. Even if there's a small RAW argument to make that the FAQ doesn't apply, the only place RAW really matters is in PFS, and PFS has already clarified that it does not work. Everywhere else, it's going to be a GM's call. On a general advice forum, giving the OP advice that is not going to be valid in the majority of situations isn't helpful to the OP. If you had posted something closer to your reply, that RAI it probably should not work, but that he can make the RAW argument to his GM, then I wouldn't have felt the need to reply. If a GM wants to allow it outside of PFS, that's fine. Sending a player away from the forum thinking they have a working build when they likely don't is a problem, and it continues to spread the misconception that that is how the trait works in all situations. In reality it's much more likely, just given the number of PFS games/venues, not to mention GMs ruling RAI, that the OP will be in a situation where the trait does not work the way you've said.
I guess what I'm saying is, it would be helpful to provide context as to why it might still work RAW, and the situations where it clearly doesn't, rather than a flat statement that it works.