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Hi every one!
I Have a question about the hex Frozen Caress, says this:
Frozen Caress (Su) Whenever the winter witch casts a touch spell, she can infuse the magic with cold as a swift action. This grants the spell the cold descriptor, and adds 1d4 points of cold damage to the spell’s effect. If the touch spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates this additional cold damage.
When says, "touch spell" I imagine it to be spell like, "chill touch" or Touch of Fatigue", but, this hex works with ranged touch spells like ray of frost" or "ray of exaustion"? Both are ray spells but you make a touch ranged attack to hit the target...
Looks like a dumb question... but... I'm learning how to play, and I want learn the right way...
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It specifies "touch". It does not specify "melee touch" or "ranged touch".
You can apply it to Ray of Frost to make it 1d3+1d4 cold.
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It specifies "touch". It does not specify "melee touch" or "ranged touch".
You can apply it to Ray of Frost to make it 1d3+1d4 cold.
I think this is a fine ruling, and I would support any table that did so (and probably will adopt this myself).
I... don't think it holds up to RAW, if you're parsing it as a strict codex.
Actually, that stricken sentence is super-wrong. I was wrong, and Saethori was entirely correct. I was going to quote rules, and cite how Touch spells in combat and ranged touch spells in combat have different entries, but while reading it I realized it clarified they were the same.
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. . You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Bold/Bigger my additions for emphasis.
So... yeah, it definitively works with both. Solid job, Saethori! :D
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Ohh! That sounds like fun!
Thank you for helping me!
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RISE!
So this contradicts what I've found in another thread. Namely this post.
Now considering that she is capable of casting Ray of Frost, which in turn is a "ranged" touch spell, would the Frozen Caress be able to trigger since it is a touch spell, or would Frozen Caress would only be able to apply to melee touch spells?A "touch spell" is a spell with a range of Touch.
See also Touch Spells in Combat vs Ranged Touch Spells in Combat.
What are people's thoughts? Yes or no to ray of frost?
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RISE!
So this contradicts what I've found in another thread. Namely this post.
What are people's thoughts? Yes or no to ray of frost?Now considering that she is capable of casting Ray of Frost, which in turn is a "ranged" touch spell, would the Frozen Caress be able to trigger since it is a touch spell, or would Frozen Caress would only be able to apply to melee touch spells?A "touch spell" is a spell with a range of Touch.
See also Touch Spells in Combat vs Ranged Touch Spells in Combat.
I've seen it run/played both ways as it can be read both ways. Myself, I read it's touch spell as 'a spell that targets touch AC' instead of 'a spell with range of touch'. It's been questioned a few times and I'd hoped that it'd get fixed when it got reprinted in the Reign of Winter Player's Guide but no luck.
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It specifies "touch". It does not specify "melee touch" or "ranged touch".
You can apply it to Ray of Frost to make it 1d3+1d4 cold.
I think this is a fine ruling, and I would support any table that did so (and probably will adopt this myself).
I... don't think it holds up to RAW, if you're parsing it as a strict codex.Actually, that stricken sentence is super-wrong. I was wrong, and Saethori was entirely correct. I was going to quote rules, and cite how Touch spells in combat and ranged touch spells in combat have different entries, but while reading it I realized it clarified they were the same.
...Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in
Maybe reading the Magic section, instead of a section that treat principally on how you target the spell, will be more useful?
Range
A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
That is what is a touch spell.
Tacticslion quote is about Touch Attacks, not touch spells.
Whenever the winter witch , she can infuse the magic with cold as a swift action. This grants the spell the cold descriptor, and adds 1d4 points of cold damage to the spell’s effect. If the touch spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates this additional cold damage.
If it was " Whenever the winter witch uses a touch attack Tactilson would have been right, but the requirement is to "casts a touch spell".
Diego Rossi: Look at Touch attack under AC:
"Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor."
A touch attack is one that "makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee)." If the attack is a spell, that's a touch spell [ie, a spell that uses a touch attack]. Then you have the touch spell in combat section talk about both melee and ranged touch attacks and it doesn't seem as clear cut as you make it seem. You can't say 'well the quote is about touch attacks' when the sections says otherwise touch spells in combat].
If it is meant to be as you say, it would be MUCH clearer is it sais 'when the winter witch casts a spell with a range of touch'.
Diego Rossi: Look at Touch attack under AC:
"Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor."
A touch attack is one that "makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee)." If the attack is a spell, that's a touch spell [ie, a spell that uses a touch attack]. Then you have the touch spell in combat section talk about both melee and ranged touch attacks and it doesn't seem as clear cut as you make it seem. You can't say 'well the quote is about touch attacks' when the sections says otherwise touch spells in combat].
If it is meant to be as you say, it would be MUCH clearer is it sais 'when the winter witch casts a spell with a range of touch'.
Touch Spells in Combat specifically says it applies to "Many spells have a range of Touch". That is the very first sentence and is what the rest of the rules given in this section apply to. Just using a ranged touch or even melee touch attack does not make it a touch spell. It must have a range of Touch per this text. So they do not need to say "when the winter witch casts a spell with a range of touch" because Touch Spell means very thing that by explicit definition.