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Legalistic is cute, I like the whole dont lie to people thing. It just never drew my attention as it seemed.....ok? But kind of meh. I dont know, its not a bad curse but I didnt want to call it good either. It just seemed like a flat ok little curse they made to fill space.Legalistic oracle has no mechanical downsides and you can use the sickened condition if gives you as free divination.
You don't need to lie to bluff and mislead someone.
If you are looking for a curse that does nothing bad choose legalistic.
It is one of the strongest curses in the game. If you include an escape clause in your statements such as, I won't do X, but if i do i will do Y. You have infinite divination from level 1. Lets say you are trying to find the lair of a hidden demon. Say "I will not face towards the lair of (badguy name) in the next minute but if i do i shall touch a (insert object here)" Then you just slowly turn and find which direction it is in.
Say "I will state how far it is to the lair of (badguy) or i shall touch (object here)." Then say statements like "The lair is less than distance X from here." If you get sickened touch object and reset. You can divide the area to search by 2 and saying, "The lair is farther than distance (x/2) from here."
Legalistic is straight up a better commune spell at will from level 1 onward.
Does that change your mind on it?
It is one of the strongest curses in the game. If you include an escape clause in your statements such as, I won't do X, but if i do i will do Y. You have infinite divination from level 1. Lets say you are trying to find the lair of a hidden demon. Say "I will not face towards the lair of (badguy name) in the next minute but if i do i shall touch a (insert object here)" Then you just slowly turn and find which direction it is in.
Say "I will state how far it is to the lair of (badguy) or i shall touch (object here)." Then say statements like "The lair is less than distance X from here." If you get sickened touch object and reset. You can divide the area to search by 2 and saying, "The lair is farther than distance (x/2) from here."
Legalistic is straight up a better commune spell at will from level 1 onward.
Does that change your mind on it?
Ha, if I were GMing it, you better believe it wouldn't be played that way.
"Oh, you'll touch that rock if you happen to face the bad guy? Well, you turned around full circle. You did face the bad guy. Did you touch the rock? No? You're sickened. No, I'm not going to tell you when you faced the bad guy. That's not what your curse tells you. Feel free to quote rules at me all you like. That's not how it's going to go down.
Oh, now you want to touch the rock? You said you were going to, but you didn't. Too late."
If you plan to use a lot of equipment in combat, use Tongues.
If you plan to use a lot of language-dependent spells in combat, use Haunted.
As for roleplay worries about Haunted, have fun with it. I've got a haunted oracle in PFS, and she's constantly feeling tugs in random directions, finding her coins stuffed in a frog, all sorts of shenanigans, but as long as it's roleplay and not mechanical effects above and beyond the rule description, go with the flow.
Now, if your GM is going to want to cause you additional mechanical problems with Haunted, then choose Tongues no matter what and ditch the language-dependent combat spellcasting. Get your party to learn your language, and enjoy a secret code language among yourselves.
(It's a pity you said you wanted to be the party face, because otherwise, I would have recommended Wasting.)
Heh. The Dual Curse I like right now, is progressing Wasting but not Legalistic. Oh, I broke my word and get sickened. Except I'm immune to being sickened.
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It is one of the strongest curses in the game. If you include an escape clause in your statements such as, I won't do X, but if i do i will do Y. You have infinite divination from level 1. Lets say you are trying to find the lair of a hidden demon. Say "I will not face towards the lair of (badguy name) in the next minute but if i do i shall touch a (insert object here)" Then you just slowly turn and find which direction it is in.
Say "I will state how far it is to the lair of (badguy) or i shall touch (object here)." Then say statements like "The lair is less than distance X from here." If you get sickened touch object and reset. You can divide the area to search by 2 and saying, "The lair is farther than distance (x/2) from here."
Legalistic is straight up a better commune spell at will from level 1 onward.
Does that change your mind on it?
Ha, if I were GMing it, you better believe it wouldn't be played that way.
"Oh, you'll touch that rock if you happen to face the bad guy? Well, you turned around full circle. You did face the bad guy. Did you touch the rock? No? You're sickened. No, I'm not going to tell you when you faced the bad guy. That's not what your curse tells you. Feel free to quote rules at me all you like. That's not how it's going to go down.
Oh, now you want to touch the rock? You said you were going to, but you didn't. Too late."
What part of the rules supports your ruling? Timelimits were not imposed so it should work per the text of the curse. Why would you rule otherwise?
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Because its cheesy to use it that way. It doesnt mention anywhere "This can be used like divination" Or mention a divination spell anywhere. Its a detriment because you feel guilty or anxious about breaking your word to someone even by accident and it makes you sick.this is the first line on the curse.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.
How is it not made for the purpose of getting free divination?
It includes breaking your word uninteionally. That means it can serve as a divination spell.
What part of the rules supports your ruling? Timelimits were not imposed so it should work per the text of the curse. Why would you rule otherwise?
Whose curse is it? Yours? No. It belongs to who/whatever granted you the power.
The curse does not say it has divinatory power. Thus, it is not divinatory. When we have different interpretations of a rule, the GM decides what happens and people move on.
You seem to think you can force the GM to accept an interpretation. You can't. That's why I recommended what I did to ViConstantine.
The truth is, the GM is saying, "You can't use this to be divinatory. Stop trying or you'll suffer. Are we clear?"
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What part of the rules supports your ruling? Timelimits were not imposed so it should work per the text of the curse. Why would you rule otherwise?Whose curse is it? Yours? No. It belongs to who/whatever granted you the power.
The curse does not say it has divinatory power. Thus, it is not divinatory. When we have different interpretations of a rule, the GM decides what happens and people move on.
You seem to think you can force the GM to accept an interpretation. You can't. That's why I recommended what I did to ViConstantine.
The truth is, the GM is saying, "You can't use this to be divinatory. Stop trying or you'll suffer. Are we clear?"
Then the dm is changing the RAW. He is removing the part about unintenionally breaking your word. Which is fine but it is a houserule.
Then the dm is changing the RAW. He is removing the part about unintenionally breaking your word. Which is fine but it is a houserule.
Nope, not changing RAW. RAW is it is not divinatory. You'll know that you're sickened, yes. But nothing says the character knows why they're sickened.
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Then the dm is changing the RAW. He is removing the part about unintenionally breaking your word. Which is fine but it is a houserule.Nope, not changing RAW. RAW is it is not divinatory. You'll know that you're sickened, yes. But nothing says the character knows why they're sickened.
The character kmows they are sickened. They know how their abilities work or they can work it out with some trial and error.
So they are sickened when they face towards the villian since they are breaking their word. Then they can eithier touch the rock or wait 24 hours. What stops that from happening?
All right, here's a more logical breakdown.
Say "I will state how far it is to the lair of (badguy) or i shall touch (object here)." Then say statements like "The lair is less than distance X from here." If you get sickened touch object and reset. You can divide the area to search by 2 and saying, "The lair is farther than distance (x/2) from here."
So, you say the bad guy is one mile away. You're wrong. But, you've only said that you will state how far it is to the lair. You might still do so. So, you're not sickened. You've done nothing to prevent yourself from keeping your word.
You yourself said that time limits were not imposed. So time limits are not imposed.
Say "I will not face towards the lair of (badguy name) in the next minute but if i do i shall touch a (insert object here)" Then you just slowly turn and find which direction it is in.
You turn full circle. Nothing has stopped you from touching the object. You are not yet sickened. You either touch the object in the next minute (and you're not sickened), or you don't, you've broken your word, and you are sickened for 24 hours (since you can't go back to that minute and touch the object).
Nope, not divinatory.
So basically he just needs to be more careful with his wording to achieve the desired effect.
So basically he just needs to be more careful with his wording to achieve the desired effect.
Bring it on.
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So basically he just needs to be more careful with his wording to achieve the desired effect.
This. The point i am making is that it is a known value with only 2 options sickened or not sickened. While phrasing matters the basic premise is the same. Do you agree that in principle it can be used that way? We can right it up like a programming langauge but that doesnt matter.
No GM that I know would allow that. If you tried using it in a game I ran you had better never open your mouth or you are going to be sickened. I would use every random thing your character said against you. From that point on if you faced that BBEF lair and did not touch that rock you would become sickened. The curse also does not put limitations on how often or when the condition applies. That may not be what the curse intended but if you try the BS of trying to get unlimited divination I will see your BS and raise it.
He's just pointing out that it's a broken exploit that needs to be house-ruled otherwise it's well... broken.
It's a "technically..." statement.
So basically he just needs to be more careful with his wording to achieve the desired effect.This. The point i am making is that it is a known value with only 2 options sickened or not sickened. While phrasing matters the basic premise is the same. Do you agree that in principle it can be used that way? We can right it up like a programming langauge but that doesnt matter.
Not like a program language. Like a contract. Miss a rent payment and get back to me about how that works.
And although, yes, there are logical ways to answer yes/no questions using sickened/not sickened, the truth is, if you leave in a clause that allows you not to be sickened, it can only trigger if you can no longer possibly allow yourself not to be sickened. What this means in practice is that you have to expose yourself to the risk that you will be sickened for 24 hours, each time you use the power. If you still might do what you've said you're going to do, then there is nothing to trigger being sickened.
So basically he just needs to be more careful with his wording to achieve the desired effect.This. The point i am making is that it is a known value with only 2 options sickened or not sickened. While phrasing matters the basic premise is the same. Do you agree that in principle it can be used that way? We can right it up like a programming langauge but that doesnt matter.Not like a program language. Like a contract. Miss a rent payment and get back to me about how that works.
And although, yes, there are logical ways to answer yes/no questions using sickened/not sickened, the truth is, if you leave in a clause that allows you not to be sickened, it can only trigger if you can no longer possibly allow yourself not to be sickened. What this means in practice is that you have to expose yourself to the risk that you will be sickened for 24 hours, each time you use the power. If you still might do what you've said you're going to do, then there is nothing to trigger being sickened.
His word was he wouldn't do X and if he did he would be obligated to do Y.
"I will not kill X, if i do i will pay that orphanage 100 gp as recompense".
Once you kill X you're sickened until you wait 24 hours or pay 100 gp in recompense even though it is no longer possible to kill X.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.
The shackles of Hell impose savage consequences should you violate a covenant, but also imbue you with remarkable guile.
Effect
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first. However, once per day, you can make a vow to yourself that grants a +4 morale bonus on any one roll you make while trying to fulfill a promise made to another individual.
So, let's apply what you've said to this ruling.
"I will not kill X, if i do i will pay that orphanage 100 gp as recompense".
This statement has 2 parts: "I will not X" and "If I X, I will Y."
They are separable.
So, when you kill X, you're sickened for 24 hours, no save.
After you've killed X, you're sickened for 24 hours each 24 hours, unless you're busy paying the orphanage.
Actually, that is the logic of the statement. So, if you do the "not face bad guy, but if I do, I'll touch the rock" means by turning around, bam, that's 24 hours of being sickened, and even if you touch the rock immediately afterward, you said you wouldn't, but you did, so you're sick anyway.
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The shackles of Hell impose savage consequences should you violate a covenant, but also imbue you with remarkable guile.
Effect
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first. However, once per day, you can make a vow to yourself that grants a +4 morale bonus on any one roll you make while trying to fulfill a promise made to another individual.
So, let's apply what you've said to this ruling.
"I will not kill X, if i do i will pay that orphanage 100 gp as recompense".This statement has 2 parts: "I will not X" and "If I X, I will Y."
They are separable.
So, when you kill X, you're sickened for 24 hours, no save.
After you've killed X, you're sickened for 24 hours each 24 hours, unless you're busy paying the orphanage.
He only has to pay once. Why are you ruling he has to pay forever?
He only has to pay once. Why are you ruling he has to pay forever?The shackles of Hell impose savage consequences should you violate a covenant, but also imbue you with remarkable guile.
Effect
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first. However, once per day, you can make a vow to yourself that grants a +4 morale bonus on any one roll you make while trying to fulfill a promise made to another individual.
So, let's apply what you've said to this ruling.
"I will not kill X, if i do i will pay that orphanage 100 gp as recompense".This statement has 2 parts: "I will not X" and "If I X, I will Y."
They are separable.
So, when you kill X, you're sickened for 24 hours, no save.
After you've killed X, you're sickened for 24 hours each 24 hours, unless you're busy paying the orphanage.
I didn't say that. If you're having trouble understanding how I didn't say he's paying forever, then I recommend staying away from legalistic.
(Once he's paid the 100 gold, he's good. If he's raising the 100 gold, taking it to the orphanage, stuff like that, he's also not sickened.)
Yes, hello, hi. Um....do you guys want to make a new advice post about this subject maybe? Im still trying to decide if they bonus spells from haunted are worth more to me as a diplomacy healing oracle or if the bonus language abilities are from tongues....
Yeah, let's get back to the OP's question. I think it's a wash either way, unless your GM plans to screw you over worse with one curse or the other, in which case, avoid that curse.
I see, well thats fair enough. I dont see my gm being able to screw with me too much with tongues but it might be difficult on me as I have speak with animals once per day as a spell like ability and i like to use it often. If i have to use it in combat, it wont work from what I can tell.Yes, hello, hi. Um....do you guys want to make a new advice post about this subject maybe? Im still trying to decide if they bonus spells from haunted are worth more to me as a diplomacy healing oracle or if the bonus language abilities are from tongues....Yeah, let's get back to the OP's question. I think it's a wash either way, unless your GM plans to screw you over worse with one curse or the other, in which case, avoid that curse.
Right, probably won't. If you want to speak with animals in the middle of combat, then I definitely recommend Haunted and eat the GM's side effects.
Yes, hello, hi. Um....do you guys want to make a new advice post about this subject maybe? Im still trying to decide if they bonus spells from haunted are worth more to me as a diplomacy healing oracle or if the bonus language abilities are from tongues....
Personally I'd pick . Telekinesis alone is amazing /makes it worth imo, even if not for offensive use you can use it to reposition allies at range out of danger or give them a psudo pounce by moving them up to foes.
Also I don't see bonus languages being all the great of a draw, a page of spell knowledge for tongues is only 14,000 gold if you really need it or even just a few skill ranks into linguistics is usually sufficient in my experience.
This of course hinges on weather or not you're going to be using consumable items in combat. If you know you are then tongues is by far the better pick obviously.
Im playing a healing oracle in my friends campaign and their primary focus is spell casting and diplomacy as the party face. Haunted is a pretty minor detriment unless your gm is a dick and decides to really utilize the flavor text on the curse that mentions the ghosts that haunt you moving things around you and making weird things happen. I have a gm that i know would probably f&#%ing torment me with this where as when I gmed a session with an oracle who had this curse, I forgot about it half the time and really just made it affect their equipment once or twice. On the other hand, free spells, and the oracle shouldnt turn down any spell they can get, their lack of spells feels crazy.
So the Tongues. Tongues limits your language in combat and/or stressful situations. I was thinking celestial, my party is willing to pick up the language though it means spells that rely on the enemy understanding me just.....dont....work. Command i feel is a good example. Though on the bright side tongues eventually lets you just...speak and understand any language you want outside of combat and still understand everything during combat but you are forced to speak one of two languages of your choice from their list at that point in combat.
Your thoughts guys?
Honestly, I think this comes down to things only you can know and judge. How do you want to play your character. What do you want to be able to do. How will your GM react?
I will say that for Haunted, the effect is clearly laid out.
"Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction."
The stuff about spirits is fluff to explain the effect. If your GM is having, say, ghosts give away your hiding spot with noises and such, your GM is not really playing within the spirit of the curse. I would also say that the player has an obligation to remember the effect of the curse, and remind the GM that fallen object locations need to be determined.
I'd go with haunted over tongues. There's almost always stuff your GM can use to hassle you, reducing the threat surface won't help unless it's something they've said in advance bothers them - there's one guy I know who gets upset about a "zoo" when there's a mix of characters of weird races, and will target those he sees as most exotic.
BTW, Covetous is another relatively minor curse. It goes well with a gnome obssessed with a collection of some sort.
Carry is rarely an issue. You've got 2 traits that increase str by 2 for carry [Efficient Packer, Muscle of the Society], profession: porter can increase it by another 2, masterwork backpack for another 1, Cut Your Losses feat another 2, Muleback Cords [1000gp] +8, +1 Burdenless armor [5000gp] +50%.
So 6050gp, 2 traits, a few skill points and a feat, you add +17 for carry then add 50%. That means a 5 str's light load is 259.5 lbs medium, 194.625 lbs small. Of course most people don't have to go that far, picking only a few of these options to get enough carry for them.
EDIT: Oh, and to the original question: haunted without a doubt. You don't want to be in a situation where someone yells "Look out there's a [dragon, pit-trap, flash-flood, ect] coming" and you have no clue what they said. Plus I love haunted for the extra cantrips. ;)
This doesn't really address the question or your situation, but I personally love Oracles because the curses are so flavorful. I find the weaknesses and challenges they pose to be fun and interesting. I wouldn't take anything that would ruin my build, but I also don't look for something I can make invisible.
On that note, Lame is pretty easy to compensate for. Stay mounted, magic items that give you extra movement, etc.
Being a wrecker is more fun though.
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Not going to get into the discussion of weighing mechanical benefits/drawbacks, as I'm not really a theory-crafter, but I had a very successful run in PFS with a Haunted Oracle. Eventually got an imp on my shoulder charged specifically with fetching things out of my pack upon command, among other duties.
And while it's a bit high-level for immediate relevance, consider the following: Blade Barrier + Telekinesis.
On that note, Lame is pretty easy to compensate for. Stay mounted, magic items that give you extra movement, etc.
Instead of lame, I like deep one. -5 speed for swim equal to speed is sweet.