Which class should I 1 level dip into for my Gnome Cleric?

[Louise Bishop]

Plus you only have like 6 rounds of rage so like 1-2 fights. Then half the dip is gone.

[ViConstantine]

Louise Bishop wrote:

Plus you only have like 6 rounds of rage so like 1-2 fights. Then half the dip is gone.

Well to be honest I dont care about the rage, I never planned to dip for the rage just the speed and boost of offensive power with more weapons to be able to use.

[nicholas storm]

Rage allows you to leverage other things like furious weapons. I would do barbarian and take extra rage, so you get 12 rounds.

[ViConstantine]

nicholas storm wrote:

Rage allows you to leverage other things like furious weapons. I would do barbarian and take extra rage, so you get 12 rounds.

With that said, do you suggest I pick up the heavy armor proficiency feat at some point if I go for the one level in barbarian? If I make half plate for example medium by making it mithral, I do believe I can also keep my 10 feet bonus from barbarian as mithral makes any armor treated as one side category lighter?

[UnArcaneElection]

Instead of dipping another class, what about going VMC Oracle of Battle? At 3rd level, you can get the Skill At Arms Revelation to get Heavy Armor and proficiency with all martial weapons.

[ViConstantine]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Instead of dipping another class, what about going VMC Oracle of Battle? At 3rd level, you can get the Skill At Arms Revelation to get Heavy Armor and proficiency with all martial weapons.

I mentioned this in another earlier comment. I want to play a cleric. Period.

[PossibleCabbage]

ViConstantine wrote:

I mentioned this in another earlier comment. I want to play a cleric. Period.

How is variant multiclassing any more of a violation of "playing a cleric, period" than "dipping a class that is not cleric"?

I would think that the VMC is even more pure cleric, since you're not interrupting spellcasting progression, you're just spending feats.

[Grandlounge]

You should look up vmc you clearly did not understand the suggestion. Variant multiclassing.

[ViConstantine]

Dipping a class with the cleric isn't much of a big deal of the class has +1 babe. The problem with variant multiclass is you lose feats and from what I know about clerics, they are feat starved. Trading feats for oracle abilities arent worth it at all to me.

[nicholas storm]

If you are shooting for heavy armor, the armored hulk archtype gives you heavy armor proficiency. It trades out fast movement, but you don't get fast movement wearing heavy armor.

Alternately, you could do steelblood bloodrager which also gives you heavy armor proficiency and you can trade out the bloodrager power for a familiar.

[PossibleCabbage]

That's a different problem than "it's not pure cleric". It's fundamentally a question of what's worth more to you:

Say up to level 12 (when PFS ends) the difference is:
VMC Oracle:
Down level 3, 7, 11 feats
Gets Heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency.
An Oracle curse at level 11
A spell like ability.
Full progression on spellcasting, domains.

Dip something else:
One level behind on spellcasting, domains.
All your feats
Whatever the other class gives you.

Now it's conceivable that one of those two things is worth way more than the other one to the specific character you want, but that's a matter of comparing mechanical benefits not a matter of "one is more pure than the other."

Personally, if I'm playing a 9th level caster it's for 9th level spellcasting, so I'd never dip but might VMC once I've figured out the feats I want to take and if I can afford losing the level 3 and 7 ones.

[ViConstantine]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

That's a different problem than "it's not pure cleric". It's fundamentally a question of what's worth more to you:

Say up to level 12 (when PFS ends) the difference is:
VMC Oracle:
Down level 3, 7, 11 feats
Gets Heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency.
An Oracle curse at level 11
A spell like ability.
Full progression on spellcasting, domains.

Dip something else:
One level behind on spellcasting, domains.
All your feats
Whatever the other class gives you.

Now it's conceivable that one of those two things is worth way more than the other one to the specific character you want, but that's a matter of comparing mechanical benefits not a matter of "one is more pure than the other."

Personally, if I'm playing a 9th level caster it's for 9th level spellcasting, so I'd never dip but might VMC once I've figured out the feats I want to take and if I can afford losing the level 3 and 7 ones.

The cleric essentially loses nearly nothing for not reaching level 20. Level 19 cleric still allows max channel and a decent amount of level nine spells. A one level dip for proficiencies, an extra feat, fast movement, what have you is more than an ok trade. No loss of feats for dipping as the cleric gets no bonus feats.

[Atarlost]

ViConstantine wrote:

The cleric essentially loses nearly nothing for not reaching level 20. Level 19 cleric still allows max channel and a decent amount of level nine spells. A one level dip for proficiencies, an extra feat, fast movement, what have you is more than an ok trade. No loss of feats for dipping as the cleric gets no bonus feats.

Except you have to play through level 3 and level 5 and level 7 and level 9 and level 11 and level 13 and level 15 and level 17 where you're behind by an entire level of spells. Also level 6 and/or 8 where you're down your second domain abilities.

If you're a proper 18 strength front line healing is for the aftermath battle cleric fighter at level 1 might be worth it to get better proficiencies and qualify for +1 BAB feats at first level, particularly if you're a human with two first level feats already. Or a proper 14 strength 18 dex archer cleric. For you, though, it's not going to help. Unless you're starting at level 20, in which case why are you wanting to hit things? You have plenty of spells at that point.

If you want to make this character capable the first step is to stop being a Gnome. Reincarnate will remove the -2 strength and +2 con modifiers. Bugbear is ideal for +6 net strength +2 dex. Gnoll is +6 net strength. Half-Orc is +4 strength -2 con, which might be barely workable if you have high enough con. Orc is +6 net strength -2 con which is probably okay. That's a 16% chance of dieing and reincarnating helping things. I recommend dieing and reincarnating until you get a good roll if you're unwilling to compromise on being born a gnome.

[parrot familiar]

So, would this work: Barbarian 1 Merciful Healer 4 with Quick Channel.

Free action: Rage. Standard: Attack. Free: End Rage (now fatigued). Move action: Quick Channel, Merciful Healing to cure Fatigue on self.

That sounds like a fun turn to me, especially for a cute little gnome getting all mad and whacking someone, followed up by her regaining her composure by the end of the turn. It would also let you use rage only when you're actually attacking, so you can stretch those six rounds.

[ViConstantine]

parrot familiar wrote:

So, would this work: Barbarian 1 Merciful Healer 4 with Quick Channel.

Free action: Rage. Standard: Attack. Free: End Rage (now fatigued). Move action: Quick Channel, Merciful Healing to cure Fatigue on self.

That sounds like a fun turn to me, especially for a cute little gnome getting all mad and whacking someone, followed up by her regaining her composure by the end of the turn. It would also let you use rage only when you're actually attacking, so you can stretch those six rounds.

This was one thing i thought would be fantastic for this character. Its so hilarious.

[ViConstantine]

After all this, im starting to think that i just need to stop trying to do so much at once and just say f~@% it. These are my stats after a quick but frustrating change. Str 11, dex 10, con 14, int 10, wisdom 17 and cha 14. On 20 point buy. I know if stopped playing a gnome id be able to do things a lot easier but I dont WANT to play a different race. I like the gnome for this character and always will. I know if I played an oracle then I could probably be better off but I hate the oracles lack of spells so much that ive basically ruled it out completely. I dont want to dump any stats more than I have to honestly so this is what I have.

[nicholas storm]

Lunar Oracle

S9 D10 C14 I10 W10 CH20

Feats - Divine Fighting Technique (Desna's Shooting Star)
Revelation - Prophetic Armor
Trait -Varisian Tattoo (gives proficiency with starknife and +1 save vs mind affecting)
This gives you +5 Hit/Dam with a starknife and CHA to AC.

[UnArcaneElection]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

That's a different problem than "it's not pure cleric". It's fundamentally a question of what's worth more to you:

Say up to level 12 (when PFS ends) the difference is:
VMC Oracle:
Down level 3, 7, 11 feats
{. . .}

Except for PFS this would be a moot point, since PFS doesn't allow VMC (unless they changed something real recently).

Actually, on second thought, scratch VMC Oracle on a Cleric, because it blows the 7th level ability on an Orison from the Cleric/Oracle list, which is something you already have. (Really want to see a reload of VMC -- great idea, but the execution has some really weird design decisions in it.)

If you really want a martial dip, one other possibility is 2 levels of Paladin (and get the trait Magical Knack to keep your caster level up, although it doesn't do anything about the delay in acquiring spellcasting levels) -- this gets you Divine Grace and Lay on Hands.

[MrCharisma]

So Barbarian 1 vs Bloodrager 1 - Mostly the same except:

Barbarian gets Knowledge (Nature) and +1hp

Bloodrager gets Knowledge (Arcana), a Bloodline (and a Bloodline Power) and access to Bloodrager wands without having to use UMD.

If you're only going for a one level dip, I suggest: BLOODRAGER - specifically ID RAGER - more specifically ANGER focus.

So how does this work ...
You get basically all the benefits of a barbarian, but you also get Skill Focus (Intimidate or Survival) as a free feat, and when you rage you get the benefits of a Spiritualist Phantom. By choosing the Anger Phantom, you're getting +2 STR and -2 DEX while raging, that means instead of +4 STR +4 CON, you're ending up at +6 STR -2 DEX +4 CON. On top of that you also get the benefits of Power Attack while raging (essentially getting you a bonus feat).

If you think 6 round of bloodrage won't be enough, then take the EXTRA RAGE feat (counts for Bloodrage) and you have 12 rounds of rage per day, and you've still only spent the same number of feats as a Barbarian/Fighter/etc would have spent on Power Attack anyway (this is also neat as you don't have to put your stats into STR since you're getting it for free).

If you do want more STR I'd probably just buy a BELT OF GIANT STRENGTH (4000gp for +2. 16000gp for +4) or if you think you'll have time to buff you could eve just get a WAND of BULL'S STRENGTH for 4500gp (3 minutes per charge).

This means your 12 STR 12 DEX 14 CON Gnome changes to 18 STR 10 DEX 18 CON when you Rage.
With your stats, the STR + Power Attack bonuses(/penalties) are giving you +2 to hit, +5 to damage (+8 damage with a 2-handed weapon). At level 5 that will change to +1 to hit, +7 to damage (+11 damage with a 2-handed weapon). At level 11 you'll be at +0 to hit, but +9 to damage (+14 damage with a 2-handed weapon).

I think between playing a "healer" and the fact that you have 9th level spells, you likely won't even use your 12 rounds of rage most days (you may find you don't get through 6 rounds).

Anyway that's my suggestion

(PS I totally didn't come up with this myself, I got it from Chess Pwn HERE when I asked for a dip for my Investigator)

[MageHunter]

Monk? WIS to AC helps with the stats, and I think a mix of guided band and sensei negates the need for strength. Crusaders flurry with a scimitar ain't half bad.

Edit: guided hand just does attack rolls like sensei. Still allows strength to be lower though.