There are pretty endless options for divine builds, and Ragathiel is a pretty iconic warrior-deity. So how would you do an ultimate-badass Ragathiel themed build?
Something about dual-wielding bastard swords seems like exactly the right kind of over-the-top berserker style to me:
Unbreakable Fighter 1 / Separatist Cleric of Ragathiel 8
Ulfen Human: 14/16STR, 15DEX, 15CON, 10INT, 14WIS, 7CHA
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
Domains: Destruction/Rage & Separatist: Wolf
1UF. (+Endurance) / (+Diehard) / Two-Weapon Fighting / +H: Quick Draw
2SC. (+Improved Trip)
3SC. Dirty Fighting
4SC.
5SC. RETRAINED at 8
6SC.
7SC. RETRAINED at 8
8SC. RETRAINED: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting / RETRAINED: Greater Trip
9SC. Extra Rage
10SC.
11SC. Quicken Spell
Notable Equipment: +1 Furious Leveraging Bastard Sword, +1 Furious Bastard Sword, Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid, Deliquescent Gloves, Mithral Full Plate, Belt of Giant Strength +2, Snakeskin Tunic, Lesser Rod of Extend Spell.
14 rounds/day of Rage are available at level 9. Diehard prevents sudden Rage death and grants a huge negative hp buffer. Furious plus Leveraging on a +1 weapon grants a +6 enhancement bonus to trips.
Every Domain slot at 3 and above is used for Aspect of the Wolf (swift action trip), cast with a Lesser Extend Rod for 2min/level pre-buffing. If pre-buffing isn't possible, you can still swift-trip and AoO on the same round as casting AotW.
By 11, Quickened Divine Favor and Righteous Might can be used on round 1 instead of Divine Power if desired (like to trip huge high-CMD creatures).
Even if taking a -4 from TWF, having Favor and Rage without using Power Attack grants a strong attack bonus. Using swift-action trip outside of a full attack doesn't invoke the TWF penalty.
Dual-wielding Bastard Swords isn't so much "over-the-top" than it is silly and does nothing to aid you. -4 penalties just because you like Bastard Swords isn't really doing much to show that you're Ragathiel-based, only that you have some weird fondness with using Bastard Swords like a child using sticks they find in the woods.
If you want a Ragathiel themed character, his deity icon uses 1 (count: ONE) Bastard Sword. Therefore, it'd make more sense to use one Bastard Sword, and not two. This means you won't have to spend over half your Point Buy just to have 15 Dexterity for feats that are meh.
Honestly, it's easiest to take Paladin levels and spend your Human Feat on Proficiency. From there, you can either use a Large Bastard Sword (which is the more preferred "over-the-top" approach) for 1.5x Strength, or use a Light Shield (shaped in the form of a crimson wing, the other component of Ragathiel's icon).
Bonus points if you can get Celestial Plate Armor with Ragathiel's symbol and turn your Light Shield into a Celestial Shield, and take an Oath of Vengeance for smiting Demons. After all, nothing says "Screw you, demons!" than bypassing any DR it has, and being able to do so at the cost of 2 Lay On Hands.
Paladin with either Variant Multiclass Barbarian, or (more for high-level characters) a Sacred Servant with the Rage subdomain.
There is also the Crimson Templar Prestige Class specifically for non-caster devotees of Ragathiel.
VMC Barbarian is a really good idea, since Paladins need very few feats. Once you get the Proficiency feat and Power Attack (bonus points for Fey Foundling via Human feat), all you'll be sinking your feats into is Extra Lay On Hands (or even Extra Rage Powers, once you get your first Rage Power at 11th level; a Paladin VMC Barbarian with Smite and full Beast Totem chain is extremely scary, and very much worth the two feats).
VMC Barbarian is a really good idea, since Paladins need very few feats. Once you get the Proficiency feat and Power Attack (bonus points for Fey Foundling via Human feat), all you'll be sinking your feats into is Extra Lay On Hands (or even Extra Rage Powers, once you get your first Rage Power at 11th level; a Paladin VMC Barbarian with Smite and full Beast Totem chain is extremely scary, and very much worth the two feats).Do you qualify for the beast totem feats? VMC says on rage powers her effective barbarian level is equal to 1/2 her character level.
Lesser could be taken right away at level 11, and the "middle" feat can be taken at level 13 with Extra Rage Power. The Greater totem power could only be taken at level 20 by retraining some other feat.
I believe separtist cleric means you lose proficiency in bastard sword.
You lose it from Cleric automatic proficiencies, but are not prevented from gaining it from another source (like for instance the Fighter dip, although in this case you still need to add Exotic Weapon Proficiency to one-hand a Bastard Sword, unless you got it from the Human Military Tradition alternate racial trait).
VMC Barbarian is a really good idea, since Paladins need very few feats. Once you get the Proficiency feat and Power Attack (bonus points for Fey Foundling via Human feat), all you'll be sinking your feats into is Extra Lay On Hands (or even Extra Rage Powers, once you get your first Rage Power at 11th level; a Paladin VMC Barbarian with Smite and full Beast Totem chain is extremely scary, and very much worth the two feats).Do you qualify for the beast totem feats? VMC says on rage powers her effective barbarian level is equal to 1/2 her character level.
...Well damn. I thought that clause wasn't there. Maybe I confused it with the Rage Powers you'd get from, for example, Primalist Bloodragers.
Too many class features offering identical benefits with different caveats these days, because that's twice now I've misremembered a rule like this.
Celestial Bloodline Bloodrager could work, if you want to go the "Ragathiel is my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandpappy" route.
Warpriest (Molthuni arsenal chaplain) 7/mystery cultist.
Re: dual-wielding bastard swords
Effortless lace (2,500 gp) is affordable quite a bit before a sun blade (50,335 gp).
Wait, how would you variant multiclass Paladin and Barbarian?
Does VMC waive the alignment restrictions?
If so that's......weird.
Not really. There are already ways to get Rage on a Paladin (or LG Cleric, etc) without violating alignment restrictions, Ragathiel specifically is a Lawful Good patron that grants the Rage subdomain, and righteous fury is a great character trope for a holy warrior in a setting where gods are real and bad guys are capital-E Evil.
Barbarian may be, like Thief, an obsolete term. They aren't illiterate anymore like they were in D&D, and have have no particular commitment to uphold anarchic freedom against the march of civilization. Rage doesn't turn people into mindless berserkers.
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In Pathfinder Barbarians can't have a Lawful alignment though, which is what I think confused Pratt. Gaining Barbarian abilities through VMC has no such restriction though :3
I meant more that it was weird for the Barbarian to be restricted to non-Lawful.
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In Pathfinder Barbarians can't have a Lawful alignment though, which is what I think confused Pratt. Gaining Barbarian abilities through VMC has no such restriction though :3I meant more that it was weird for the Barbarian to be restricted to non-Lawful.
Especially when Bloodragers, Skalds, Clerics, Inquisitors, Druids, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins can rage while being lawful.
Dual-wielding Bastard Swords isn't so much "over-the-top" than it is silly and does nothing to aid you. -4 penalties just because you like Bastard Swords isn't really doing much to show that you're Ragathiel-based, only that you have some weird fondness with using Bastard Swords like a child using sticks they find in the woods.
Dual bastard swords certainly isn't totally optimized, but it's hardly a terrible way to go if you've got a strong attack anyhow - and Favor + Rage makes for a very strong attack. Proficiency is pretty effortless with a cheap Ioun stone (or a more pricey version in a wayfinder, which also grants bonus Weapon Focus). Ironically, the 1d10 die is considerably more valuable with the lower damage / more strikes of TWF.
Calculating for dual-wielding (without an Effortless Lace) and not using Power Attack, a pair of Furious Bastard Swords on this build with Rage and Favor running at 9 will deal 1d10+3 +8/4STR +4Favor = 20.5/16.5; two strikes each can deal around 74 damage. Using Power Attack with a single Furious Bastard Sword will deal ~30.5, which would amount to around 62 damage with two strikes that have a +2AB advantage. Overall, these are very similar outputs; Haste or Divine Power gives a mild edge to a single weapon, while Deliquescent Gloves grant a mild advantage to dual-wielding.
Either way, the huge overall combat buffs - from Rage, Furious, Favor, Fate's Favored and potentially prone - make the penalty for dual-wielding very manageable. After all, most martials and many others will take a -3 from Power Attack by level 8 without thinking twice about it to gain +9 on strikes; this is two feats and a -4 (or -2 with Lace) to gain two more solid attacks.
The point of this thread wasn't total optimization, but builds that are... thematically aggressive while being solid. Assuming the numbers are already good, go for the style points. Striking down a foe with a raging wolf-trip and then going to town with two bastard swords has a nice flavor.
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Especially when Bloodragers, Skalds, Clerics, Inquisitors, Druids, Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins can rage while being lawful.In Pathfinder Barbarians can't have a Lawful alignment though, which is what I think confused Pratt. Gaining Barbarian abilities through VMC has no such restriction though :3I meant more that it was weird for the Barbarian to be restricted to non-Lawful.
Agreed.
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I thought Ragathiel was all about controlling the rage within?
I know he has the rage subdomain but his domains are destruction, good, law and nobility.
I don't think you need to take rage powers or barbarian dips to make a Ragathiel themed character.
Straight paladin makes just as much sense.
Also, a portfolio of chivalry, duty and vengeance does not, to me, seem to match up with Dirty Fighting.
The point of this thread wasn't total optimization, but builds that are... thematically aggressive while being solid. Assuming the numbers are already good, go for the style points. Striking down a foe with a raging wolf-trip and then going to town with two bastard swords has a nice flavor.
This seems like a cool barbarian image.
Not really a Ragathiel thing though.
^Depending upon who you are, an Angel of Wrath gets even more worrisome with only a 7 Intelligence . . . .