For a race not classified as humanoid, such as a Tiefling thats an Outsider.. Besides the magic armor abilities Titanic and Un/Righteous, is there anyway to emulate the Enlarge Person spell?
Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy II and Giant Shape I would let you emulate Large creatures, as well as receive a handful of their special features (depending on which creature you choose to emulate).
Higher tiers of the spells (III and IV for MP/UA, II for GS) let you emulate bigger-sized creatures (Huge), though are also significantly more difficult to acquire.
I'd suggest Beast Shape or Elemental Body, but they cause your gear to merge with you, so unless you're a Natural Weapon enthusiast, it's not exactly a worthwhile effect to make use of.
Just take
Quote: Pass for Human: Discrimination against tieflings with horrifically fiendish features is so intense that even tieflings look up to those precious few of their kind who can pass as human. These tieflings have otherworldly features that are so subtle, they aren’t often noticed unless the tiefling points them out (for example, eyes that flash red in the throes of passion, or fingernails that are naturally hard and pointed). Such a tiefling doesn’t need to succeed at a Disguise check to appear to be human and count as humanoid (human) as well as outsider (native) for all purposes (such as humanoid-affecting spells like charm person or enlarge person). The tiefling does not automatically gain his associated outsider language (but may select it as a bonus language if his Intelligence score is high enough), and he may not select other racial traits that would grant him obviously fiendish features (such as the fiendish sprinter, maw or claw, prehensile tail, scaled skin, or vestigial wings alternate racial traits). This ability alters the tiefling’s type, subtype, and languages.
I took Prehensile Tale and Scaled Skin and am already level 2. Also enjoy not being bale to be charmed(for now anyway) or anyhting that targets humanoids especially. So just looking into future possibilities of ways I can increase my size via spell that won't cost an absolute fortune. Plan on putting atleast 5 ranks into UMD and with a 20 CHA I'll have a 50/50 chance of getting the spell off.
Already planning on eventually getting a wand of lead blades, so just tyring to find ways to increase size as well, since Id generally prefer a Mithril Fullplate of Speed over the other 2 armor choices, since(unless I'm wrong) you can't get that armor with one of those other magical abilities added to it as well, granted that would cost an absolute fortune even if you could..
Should also mention I'm a Tiefling Antipaladin, so things are limited as I'll have to rely soley on magic effects and wands/scrolls, so would have to be a viable option in those regards
Scaled Skin is a trap trait if you plan on taking Armor of the Pit, since you have 1 less Natural Armor if you do so compared to not taking Scaled Skin. Not sure if you planned on it, but it's there if you did.
Since it's such a high level, and you're a prepared Divine spellcaster, you have to use Wands or Scrolls. Wands get you more uses, but are limited in their benefit (can only get type II), whereas Scrolls have the option to be levels III and IV, but only get a single time use.
Alternatively, with enough Intelligence, you can pick up the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat, and apply exclusive spells to your spell list. (Yes, feat says Paladin spells, but an Anti-Paladin should be able to use it with Anti-Paladin spells considering they get exclusions for things like their Smite and Touch of Corruption.)
Nah I don't plan on taking the Armor of the Pit. I decided to be crazy and try a build that prolly won't work very well but I'm just having fun and enjoying myself. My int is also a 7 so UK is def not an option.
Just trying to find possible ways to increase my size for more damage(+str and bigger weapon dice) but I'm limited to wands and scrolls essentially, but most of the form spells for large seem to be 5th or higher. Never used wands before but from what I read you can only get to 4th level spells, which if I understand this right, a wand of say Monstrous Physic II would cost 21k and last for 4mins? All other spells that increase size are to large are 5+ Which cant be done via wands, and since Im a Divine Spellcaster, scrolls of those sre also not an option, correct?
One question tho, UMD requires a DC check of 25 to emulate a race. Even emulating say, human... doesn't make me viable to use Enlarge Person on myself, since the target has to be Humanoid. Correct?
Once you can afford it, using a wand of monstrous physique II to turn into a tikbalang would be very nice. It lasts for 7 minutes, lets you keep all your weapons and armor, and gives you loads of benefits: large size, +4 Str, +4 natural armor, a bite attack, two hoof attacks, 10 ft. reach, 40 ft. speed, darkvison, low-light vision, scent, sound mimicry, and pounce.
How do you know if a form will allow you to keep your armor and weapons? Also reading the description of the spells, It doesn't mention what happens to your gear, if it grows with you like enlarge person, or melds and becomes useless like Wild Shape.
If the form doesnt have human shaped arms(like in its description or something or if no picture) how do you tell if it can wield a weapon? Do you gain all the attacks that form has? I know about any special abilities as they are listed, but attacks aren't..
There's also not a lot of large, monstrous forms after going thru thr entire list of monstrous humanoids, most are medium... this may also greatly push things, but by using Monstrous Physic, it turns you into a Monstrous Humanoid, being such, can you than be affected by Enlarge Person? And... does using Alter Self to turn into a Humanoid form, allow Enlarge Person as well?
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x_Gabriel_x wrote: How do you know if a form will allow you to keep your armor and weapons? Also reading the description of the spells, It doesn't mention what happens to your gear, if it grows with you like enlarge person, or melds and becomes useless like Wild Shape. Polymorph spells are explained more fully in the transmutation school section of the Magic chapter in the Core Rulebook.
Transmutation (Polymorph) wrote: When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body... If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size. Since monstrous humanoid is not one of the listed types, your gear does not meld into your new form and instead resizes to fit.
x_Gabriel_x wrote: If the form doesnt have human shaped arms(like in its description or something or if no picture) how do you tell if it can wield a weapon? All monstrous humanoids are proficient with simple weapons unless otherwise stated, so the general assumption is that they are capable of holding them. Individual creature descriptions like the tikbalang's will often say something like "this monstrosity has... long forelimbs with clawed fingers." If in doubt, ask your GM.
x_Gabriel_x wrote: this may also greatly push things, but by using Monstrous Physic, it turns you into a Monstrous Humanoid, being such, can you than be affected by Enlarge Person? And... does using Alter Self to turn into a Humanoid form, allow Enlarge Person as well? Polymorph effects don't actually change your creature type, but even if they did "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
Fair enough on Armor of the Pit and UK.
For determining whether you keep gear, you should review the Polymorph rules. In short, it should let you keep your gear, since your form remains mostly humanoid, and/or if it doesn't specifically say gear melds to your body, and in the cases where it doesn't specify, they grow or shrink to accommodate your new size.
Wands for Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy 2 will work just fine, since Large sized creatures are permitted under their casting. (Bonus points for Undead Anatomy, since you would be able to use Touch of Corruption to heal yourself as a Swift Action similar to a Paladin using Lay On Hands on himself.) They're expensive, but considering how many uses you get in comparison to scrolls, it may be worth the price.
You can use both Scrolls and Wands of any type as long as you succeed on the UMD check to activate them. It's just if you come across an Arcane form of the spell, and that spell is on your Divine spell list, you can't automatically activate it, and would need UMD as normal.
Note that if you do transform into a Large creature that's eligible for Enlarge Person, the two size increases will not stack, both in terms of usability, and in terms of mechanical benefit. Enlarge Person would overwrite the previous option, and even if it didn't, all of its benefits are the same as Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy, and as such wouldn't stack due to the rules of stacking bonuses.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Wands for Monstrous Physique/Undead Anatomy 2 will work just fine Well, except for the part where Undead Anatomy II is a level 5 spell and cannot be put on a wand. That part works a little bit less fine.
x_Gabriel_x wrote: There's also not a lot of large, monstrous forms after going thru thr entire list of monstrous humanoids Let's see...
Tikbalang: pounce and three extra attacks
attack routine: weapon attacks + bite (2d4) + 2 hooves (1d8) [all secondary]
movement: speed 40 ft.
senses: darkvision, low-light vision, scent
miscillaneous: sound mimicry, pounce
Vouivre: flight and swim and five extra attacks and grab
attack routine: weapon attacks + bite (3d6+grab) + 2 claws (2d6) + 2 wings (1d8) [secondary]
movement: speed 30 ft., fly 40 ft. (poor), swim 50 ft.
senses: darkvision
Four-Armed Gargoyle: flight and six natural attacks
attack routine: bite (1d8) + 4 claws (1d6) + gore (1d4) [primary]
movement: speed 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (average)
senses: darkvision
miscellaneous: freeze
Calikang: four extra attacks
attack routine: weapon attacks + 4 slams (1d6) [secondary]
movement: speed 30 ft.
senses: darkvision
Girtablilu: three extra attacks and grab
attack routine: weapon attacks + 2 claws (1d6+grab) + sting (1d6) [secondary]
movement: speed 50 ft.
senses: darkvision
is enlarge monster not a spell like how charm person/charm monster is a thing
Yeah, Undead Anatomy won't work wand wise, but thats fine, I have the Tiefling Alternate ability to be healed by both positive and negative energy anyway. So it'll have to be Monstrous Physic which seems like it'll work and even give me more attacks as well. Large size, plus lead blades, with two-weapon fighting and smite... lol
Paying 21k isnt going to be cheap for the wand, but it'll atleast have 50 chargers, each lasting 4? Minutes? Since its a level 4 spell and lasts a min per lvl... So even with a 50% chance having 10 UMD, thats a minimum of 100 minutes. Assuming the GM will ever let me find a wand of it to buy lol
As for choices, the first 3 you listed Avoron I noticed, and took screenshots of to keep for future refrences as they would be the most likely choice I'd choose each time, so thanks for the suggestions and info. Greatly appreciated
level 4 monsrus phyique will have a minimum of 7 caster levels behind it so will last 7 mins each time.
4 levels of bloodrager with abyssal bloodline
Lady-J wrote: is enlarge monster not a spell like how charm person/charm monster is a thing Nope
I did see that, but a 4 lvl dip into another class would really slow down the progression of the Antipaladin I think. Campaign is only going to lvl 16 I believe, so Id end up as a 12 Antipaladin, 4 Bloodrager. Besides the Rage effect that would last roughly 12 rounds and gain either 4str/con and +2 will -2dex, or if the 4th lvl ability when increasing size also gives you the size bonuses, so total of +8str/con +2wis -4dex, which I admit is nice.. The only other thing Id gain from the dip is Uncanny Dodge, a lvl 1 spell, and Eschew Materials.. I'm not sure how much more beneficial tose 3 things are, compared to spending 21k on a wand of Monstrous Physic, and turning into a Large MH, gaining 4Str/NA -2dex, and extra attacks plus possible abilities...
Or giving up on the Mithral Full Plate of Speed and just buy a Titanic/Unrighteous Mithral Full Plate
you can skip the 1st level ability and get a familliar instead plus rage doesnt give wis or give you a dex penalty its a buff to will and penalty to ac,also being able to cast shield on yourself and use a 2h weapon is great
Ya I meant -2AC for the rage part, and it gives a +2 morale bonus to will saves. Where does it say you can lose the 1st lvl ability for a familiar for Bloodrager? The claws are pointless, the only purpose Id do 4 lvls of Bloodrager would be for the lvl 4 Enlarge ability when raging. I am also doing a nontraditional build and going 2 Weapon Fighting with the Antipaladin
any blood rager or sorcerer can get a bloodline familliar in place of their 1st bloodline power
Those with an inherent connection to magic often attract creatures who feel a similar instinctive pull toward magical forces. At 1st level, a sorcerer, bloodrager, or any other character with one of the following bloodlines can choose to gain a bloodline familiar. The character gains a familiar (as a wizard’s familiar), treating her class level as her wizard level for the purposes of this ability. This familiar has an additional ability listed below based on the master’s bloodline.
This replaces the 1st-level bloodline power granted by the character’s bloodline; in addition, the character gains bonus spells from her bloodline one level later than she normally would. For example, a sorcerer with the aberrant bloodline who takes a bloodline familiar would not gain the acidic ray bloodline power, and she would gain her first bonus spell at 4th level, her second bonus spell at 6th level, and so on.
Kineticists get a size increase they can keep up all day.
Markov Spiked Chain wrote: Kineticists get a size increase they can keep up all day. exept it isnt an actual size increase they just get the bonuses and they have to take nonlethal to do so which doesnt bode well for melee people
Well that could work, the issue then would be figuring out how to do the build. Campaign only goes the 16th I believe, and th Abyssal Bloodrager requires 4th level for the Enlarge effect... So a 3 Antipaladin 1 Bloodrager set wouldn't work as enlarge wouldnt come till 16th which is pointless. A 2/1 advancement brings it into play at 12th.. I just leveled and put it into Antipaladin already(Level 2) so the only options I really have for advancement would be either, go 4 straight bloodrager and be a 2/4, or a 2/2. So itd be, 2 Antipaladin, 2 Bloodrager, 2 Antipaladin, 2 Bloodrager, 8 Antipaladin... so come 8th level, I'd be a 4/4 build,
Giving up 4 lvls of Antipaladin, I lose 2/smite a day, and aura of sin, and 4 smite damage, spell saves will be a little lower for cruelty as well...
But I would gain a familiar(whatever bonus) rage for 12 rounds, gains a +4 str/con morale bonus +2 will save and -2AC(Can get a wand of Shield for +4AC and not need to UMD) also gain Uncanny Dodge, +2 save vs friendly AoE, Eschrew Material, 2 1st level Bloodrager spells(Shield and Longarm maybe?) plus the ability to Enlarge for 12 rounds, so during the rage, Id essentially gain +6 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex, -3AC, +2 Will save since rage is morale bonus, enlarge is size I assume they stack. Shield would offset the dex/ac penalty, and if I took Longarm, Id have a 15ft reach, add in the size bonus to weapons, plus lead blades would go from 1d8-2d6-3d6 and my short sword 1d6-1d10-2d8?
So if I manage to get a Mithral Full Plate of Speed and +4 str belt, crafted, level 8 with rage/enlarge for 26str, My full round vs a good creature, would be BAB +8 +8str +1hit(haste) +3 smite -2TWF +1MW for +19/+19/+19/+14 damage would be Longsword 3d6+12 Shortsword 2d8+8? Not sure which hand would get the haste attack, or if my math is perfect either.. assuming I don't take or use PA, which would means -3hit +6 dam for each attack..
Or I save up 21k gold, find and buy a wand of Monstrous Physic 2, turn into... 1 of the better 3 option, weapon damage stays the same as enlarge/lead blades, gain 2-3 secondary attacks, gain only +4 str/NA -2dex but be a full lvl Antipaladin....
This isn't an easy choice lol
shortsword is d6-d8-2d6
If the size increases by one step, look up the original damage on the chart and increase the damage by two steps. If the initial size is Small or lower (or is treated as Small or lower) or the initial damage is 1d6 or less, instead increase the damage by one step.
Every time I see this thread title I think the commercial spam filters must be getting lax.
go anti paladin 2 bloodrager 4 then rest anti paladin
Quote: exept it isnt an actual size increase they just get the bonuses and they have to take nonlethal to do so which doesnt bode well for melee people Not Elemental overflow size bonuses, they also have a Size increase. They can get up to Huge at 16th level. Plus a reach weapon in Kinetic Whip for potential 30' reach.
If you mean Kinetic Form, there's no stat change tho, and requires 5 levels
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