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In anticipation of receiving a Ratfolk boon, I've been thinking about what to make with it. I have too many dex-based sneak attacking characters, so I want to do something different. Ratfolk have access to a Riding Rat animal companion from Monster Codex, which I thought would be cool to use. Riding Rats have a climb speed, and I thought that might also be something fun to take advantage of. That brought me to Spellscar Drifter. I haven't played a gun-using character in PFS. I've also not played a Cavalier or anything with an animal companion. So I have this image of a rat folk, riding a rat up the wall, in a long coat, with guns strapped to him. I haven't found the details of the riding rat online, but in the book it's size medium with a 14 STR, so plenty big enough to carry a ratfolk.
Spellscar Drifter doesn't give much interesting after 7th level, other than more Challenges and increased Challenge damage. So I was thinking about a dip into Mysterious Stranger. But that doesn't get me a whole lot, either, other than the increased grit, limited Charisma to damage, and a bonus to Will saves if I take a second level (that doesn't stack with Lucky Horseshoe). Weapon Master Fighter, on the other hand, gets me a ton of feats, Weapon Training with 3 levels, access to the Advanced Weapon Training Feat, and access to Weapon Specialization with four levels. Also, I could get away with a much lower Charisma (maybe 10 or 12).
Here's the basic structure of the build:
SD1 1)Point-Blank Shot, Challenge 1/day, Amateur Gunslinger, Gunsmithing, Quick Clear, Mount (Riding Rat), Order of the Land +1
WM1 2)Weapon Focus (Pistol), Quick Draw
SD2 3)Deadly Aim, Catch off Guard
SD3 4)Rapid Shot (Pistol)
SD4 5)Precise Shot, Challenge 2/day, Expert Trainer, Order of the Land +2
SD5 6)Banner (Likely a Mithral Armored Coat)
WM2 7)Dazzling Display, Gun Twirling
WM3 8)Weapon Training +1/+1
SD6 9)AWT Feat: Effortless Dual Wielding, Two-Weapon Fighting
SD7 10)Challenge 3/day
WM4 11)Improved Precise Shot, Weapon Specialization (Pistol)
Traits: Roving Range, Bauble Fascination
As I don't see sending the rat into combat often, I didn't prioritize Boon Companion. I'm also not sure how important Mounted Combat or Mounted Archery are. I've also never built an animal companion, so I haven't even thought about that yet.
Nothing is definite. Any suggestions are welcome.
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I had a mistake in the build. I mixed up Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload. Rapid Reload is the bonus feat at 3rd, and I would need to take Rapid Shot at 5th.
WM1 2) Weapon Focus (Pistol), Quick Draw
SD2 3) Deadly Aim, Catch off Guard
SD3 4) Rapid Reload (Pistol), Deadeye
WM2 5) Precise Shot , Rapid Shot (Pistol)
SD4 6) Precise Shot, Challenge 2/day, Expert Trainer
SD5 7) Dazzling Display, Banner
WM3 8) Weapon Training +1/+1
SD6 9) AWT Feat: Effortless Dual Wielding, Gun Twirling
SD7 10) Challenge 3/day
WM4 11) Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization (Pistol)
Or without trying for Two-Weapon Fighting and favoring Teamwork Feats with his rat:
WM1 2) Weapon Focus (Pistol), Precise Shot
SD2 3) Deadly Aim, Catch off Guard
SD3 4) Rapid Reload (Pistol), Deadeye
SD4 5) Rapid Shot (Pistol), Challenge 2/day, Expert Trainer
SD5 6) Banner
WM2 7) Cooperative Swarmer, Horse Master
WM3 8) Weapon Training +1/+1
WM4 9) Shake it Off, Weapon Specialization (Pistol)
SD6 10) AWT Feat: Fighter's Tactics
SD7 11) Swarm Scatter, Challenge 3/day
Mount Feats (Bodyguard Archetype)
1) Combat Reflexes, B: Endurance, B: Light Armor Proficiency, Alertness
2) Bodyguard
3) Tenacious Guardian
4) +1 INT
5) In Harm's Way
8) Shake It Off
9) +1 DEX, Uncanny Dodge
10) Swarm Scatter
Since TWF wasn't coming online until 11th, I think I like the second option better.
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One thing you probably should be aware of, is i think PFS Cavaliers get Skill Focus (Handle Animal) in place of Expert Trainer.
Would make sense, as multiple animal training in PFS is moot.
my question would be- why take Catch Off Guard? do you plan on using improvised weapons when you can't use your pistols?
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I'd be happy with Skill Focus (Handle Animal). Does that do anything negative to taking Horse Master (which requires Expert Trainer)?
Catch Off Guard is a bonus feat from Order of the Land. It's not the greatest, but that's the only Order that does anything for ranged attacks (+1 morale bonus to-hit at 1st, 4th, and every 4 after that (EDIT: As part of Challenge). I'd happily consider another Order if there's something that makes more sense.
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You are correct. That is a mistake. I was thinking Weapon Master got Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.
So remove Weapon Focus from 2nd level, take it at 7th, Cooperative Swarmer at 9th, Shake It Off at 10th, Swarm Scatter at 11th, and drop the Advanced Weapon Training feat off the build.
I'm not sure how it affects the TWF build. If I go back to that, I'll adjust.
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Remember that the advanced weapon training feat requires you to be 5th level fighter or use your 4th level bonus feat as a weapon master to pick the feat up.
Edit Seems I read it a little bit wrong you just have to be 4th level with the weapon master. The bonus feat thing is if you want to go around only picking AWT feat once every 5th fighter level.
As for the Riding Rat stats:
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 14, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: AC +2 natural armor; Ability Scores Str +2, Dex +2; Bonus Feat Endurance.
Actually a really nice mount companion. I can't think of any others that get a climb AND swim speed.
Hmm a riding rat makes the Spellscar drifter a pretty sweet choice...
Note that Spellscar Drifter actually doesn't gain the grit class feature so even if your Charisma is 14 or higher you start the day with only one point of grit. You can however have more grit per day...thus you can just dump Charisma as there's no difference between 5 and 13 Charisma, besides skills.
Also I'm not really seeing where 4 levels of fighter are better than 4 more levels of cavalier. Those cavalier levels advance your AnimalCompanion, boost your damage, your Orders Challenge bonus and give you your orders 8th level ability, more deeds and improves your threat range at 11th (this is huge!).
Effortless dual wielding might seem fancy but really at the level you get it you will be auto hitting touch AC even with all the penalties stacking (RS, DA and Heavy TWF is like -7 to hit and your average touch AC is 12) up anyhow. Also due to your very mobile rat buddy the times when you have to be shooting outside of your first range increment should be very rare.
Also have you checked out the new pistol in Villain Codex? It would give you limited capacity to TWF with your firearms with Guntwirling.
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Just catching back up on this. So one at a time... Spoilered for length, not content.
The Two-Weapon Fighting build is probably out. It comes online too late. I've got a Juggler Bard/Mysterious Stranger build I was looking at before that I may try sometime for a dual wielding Gunslinger. Effortless TWF was to help the -5 and -10 iteratives hit.
The levels of Fighter are to boost static to-hit and damage, since I won't ever get DEX or CHA to damage. The levels of Cavalier only boost damage for the target of my Challenge, which at most I'd only get 3 or 4 times a day, even going full Cavalier. 3rd level Weapon Master gets me +1/+1 from Weapon Training. Gloves of Dueling (probably around 10th level overall) make that +3/+3. Weapon Specialization is another +2 damage. Fighter's Tactics would essentially give me the Inquisitor Solo Tactics ability, and since I don't have Tactician, but I have incentive to take Teamwork feats to share with the Mount, that's potentially nice.
Staying Cavalier, on the other hand, would get me +4 to damage 4/day against 1 target (until that target is dead). And I'd get an extra +1 to-hit against the target of my Challenge. The improved crit range is nice, but I could just take Improved Critical if I really want it. However, I'd lose 3 bonus feats and access to things like Weapon Specialization and Fighter's Tactics. Also, the 8th level Order ability for Order of the Land is pretty... awful. Pick a favored terrain. Spend an action to shout to grant a bonus equal to CHA to initiative, perception, and survival, but only in that terrain, and only for 1/2 level in rounds. The good news is, you'll be shouting in order to activate the ability, so that improves the chances you'll be rolling initiative within the duration. If the duration doesn't make it useless, the terrain thing does.Gunslinger's Initiative and Dead Shot are both useful Deeds. Without a self replenishing grit pool, though, I'll only start the day with 1 grit, no matter how high I boost CHA. Gunslinger's Initiative would still work, but if I spend that grit for Dead Shot, I better kill what I'm hitting, or even Quick Clear ceases to function. So it's again a choice between something always on (Weapon Training) plus bonus feats, or boosting a couple of limited use abilities in Challenge and Deeds.
I have not seen the gun in Villain Codex. I'll track it down and give it a look. I know I could use double barreled pistols or pepperboxes. I think with Guntwirling/Quick Draw I'd be able to TWF with regular pistols, since holstering would be a free action. But definitely it would work with Pepperboxes. What does the new gun do?
EDIT: Almost forgot. Horsemaster makes the Mount level equal to Character level. Staying Cavalier would save me having to take that feat, but at the cost of three bonus Fighter feats.
Order of the Land is the only Order that gives any kind of bonus to ranged combat. Catch Off Guard at least means I could use my gun to pistol-whip without having the deed, so if for some reason I did need to swing a weapon, I'd have it. That's less useful if I'm taking Quick Draw, anyway. Order of the Cockatrice would grant Dazzling Display as a bonus feat, which would help the TWF build. It's Challenge bonus is only for melee attacks, though. Order of the Eastern Star would give a dodge bonus to AC and insight bonus to saves against the target of the Challenge, but the 2nd level ability (DR and morale bonus to saves) only applies when fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise. Otherwise it'd be great. Order of the Lion (dodge bonus to SC against target of Challenge, and some party buffing abilities) would probably be my second choice, and it would provide incentive to take an 8th level of Cavalier instead of the 4th level of Fighter. If there's another one you think would work well, I'll take a look at it.
The stat array I'm looking at is:
STR 8 (10-2) DEX 19 (17+2) CON 14 INT 14 (12+2) WIS 10 CHA 10
Even with a 10 CHA, I get 1 grit and can Quick Clear as a standard action without spending grit, or a move when I do (if I think I can kill whatever it is and regain the grit anyway). I could lower INT and put CHA at 12, which would let me eventually boost it to 14 or 16. To start with a 14 CHA, I'd have to drop DEX to 18. Anyway, since my use of Deeds will be limited, I think sticking with a 10 CHA would be fine. If I were to lower INT, I might even be inclined to raise WIS instead.
Handle Animal would be the other concern with a low CHA. Ratfolk get a +4 with rats, though, so even though Cavaliers don't get the same bonus as a Druid (I don't think they do, anyway), essentially I would with the Riding Rat. So at level 1, Handle Animal would be 1 rank + 3 class + 4 racial +2 training harness = +10, or enough to get the rat to do what I need in combat without a roll (at least until it's injured).
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I'm separating this into a new message because of the length of the last post.
Say I wanted to focus on using Fighter's Tactics and Teamwork feats. What would other good Teamwork Feats be to look at? Right now I've got Shake if Off, because a bonus to all three saves is great. It'll be +1 as long as I'm adjacent to my mount (so, pretty much always), and +1 for each additional adjacent party member. The mount would have Shake it Off, so it would get a +1 as well.
Swarm Scatter is in there because it's thematically cool (unaffected by rat swarms!) plus it's a +1 AC bonus. More with more adjacent allies. The Mount would take the feat as well, so a +1 for it, too.
What else? I don't know if something like Enfilading Fire is worth it or not. I had it on a (non-PFS) Gunslinger/Inquisitor, but there were a lot fewer good Teamwork feats at the time. Escape Route seems like it would mean I could move freely without provoking (provided the mount also took it), as there would always be an adjacent ally. Lookout is nice. Typical things like Outflank and Precise Strike don't really apply since I'd be using ranged combat.
What else is good?
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I was originally planning to take order of the cockatrice for my idea, I know it doesn't do much on the challenge but I figured going for touch on full bab doesn't need much help with hitting. That order gives Dazzling display at second level. And you can use the feat as a standard action instead if you want to intimidate.
Since you have an animal companion I would maybe go for Coordinated Shot for some increased attack bonus. Otherwise I like stealth synergy to help in situations where that is important
Btw what makes you able to pick a riding rat for PFS?
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Coordinated Shot could be good. It would be better if it stacked per ally with the feat, but it's still good for Solo Tactics. I'll keep it in mind.
I used to use Stealth Synergy with my Inquisitor, combined with the Coordinated Effort spell so the whole party could roll and take the best roll. It only works for short term (mins/level) sneaking, but it was really nice. Without an ability to grant it to the rest of the party, it's not as good. If the mount took it, though, it would give us both an always on roll twice take the best die for stealth, which is nice.
I think if I were going with the TWF build, I'd take Order of the Cockatrice. I wasn't thinking about it saving me from having to spend a feat on Dazzling Display. But I don't see spending my standard to intimidate that often when I can just shoot things.
The description of Riding Rat opens it up for Ratfolk. "A ratfolk with the animal companion, mount, or similar class feature can select a riding rat as her mount." And it's in a legal part of the Monster Codex, provided you are playing a Ratfolk. This quarter's GM boon is allegedly (pretty much confirmed) to be a Ratfolk boon, and I'm scheduled to GM at a con the first weekend in March.
DRAGOON CARTRIDGE PRICE 30 GP
TYPE ammunition
These clips of alchemical cartridges hold three bullets and fit the
slot of either the dragoon musket or the dragoon pistol. They
allow the wielder of those firearms to fire up to three shots in
quick succession without the need to reload. Once the cartridge
is spent, reloading another dragoon cartridge takes a full-round
action, no matter the type of dragoon firearm in question. Rapid
Reload can reduce the action time required, but abilities like
the musket master’s fast musket have no effect. Unlike other
alchemical cartridges, dragoon cartridges don’t increase a dragoon
firearm’s misfire chance by 1. Dragoon cartridges can be used only
with dragoon firearms.
DRAGOON MUSKET PRICE 2,000 GP
TYPE early firearm
This long-barreled musket shoots more precisely than other
muskets but is slightly less damaging on a critical hit. It can fire
only dragoon cartridges or specially modified mage shot.
DRAGOON PISTOL PRICE 1,500 GP
TYPE early firearm
Like the dragoon musket, this long-barreled pistol is more precise
than a typical pistol but slightly less deadly on a critical hit. It canfire only dragoon cartridges or specially modified mage shot.
One-Handed Firearm Price Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Misfire Capacity Weight Type
Dragoon Pistol 1,500 gp 1d6 1d8 ×3 30 ft. 1 (5 ft.) 3 5 lbs. B and P
Two-Handed Firearm Price Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Misfire Capacity Weight Type
Dragoon Musket 2,000 gp 1d10 1d12 ×3 60 ft. 1–2 (5 ft.) 3 12 lbs. B and P
Charisma 7 also gives you one point of Grit at the start of the day.
Also check out the Plume of Panache it also works with grit feats.
Imo Best Teamwork Feat: Lastwall Phalanx.
Order of the green also adds a to hit bonus to ranged attacks and has good abilities and skills. However order of the land allows you to switch hit with your gun if it does break. Order of the cockatrice would make it easier to get gun twirling but otherwise sucks...
The more I think about it, the more the idea of a double six shooter order of the land switch hitter appeals to me.
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Oh wow. Lastwall Phalanx is really good. And it stacks with pretty much anything else I would have.
The gun is also interesting. I wonder if it's a step toward trying to need the other guns again. Make a gun that can TWF without free actions, then try to limit free actions again. Hope not. What I actually like most is that it has a 30 foot range. Rapid Reload would only make it a standard action to reload, right? With no other way to speed it up?
Order of the Green - I think I assumed melee attacks for the bonus. I don't like the no shooting plants or animals edict. Might want to shoot someone's horse. :) Only if it's attacking, of course. Land still seems like the winner.
I didn't want to completely tank CHA, because of Handle Animal and UMD. And probably Diplomacy. I haven't figured out where all 6 skill points would go.
Plume of Panache is a good find. I didn't realize it would work for grit. At 1,000 gold, it's worth it.
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Hmm... That's an interesting loophole. It's technically a one-handsd firearm. Even with that, though, there's no other way to improve it. So you'd run into an issue on round 2, I think.. But if you have 2 attacks with each hand, plus Rapid Shot, you'll only have 1 bullet in one cartridge at the start of round 2. Even a single gun with Rapid Shot would have to go 2 attacks round 1, then 1 attack and reload round 2.
What I think you should do is just give the ratfolk boon to me since I can't make it to CoastCon unless I have a financial windfall in the next 2 weeks.
I've given away race boons in the past, but I don't think I can give this one up. If you think you're up for GMing 3 slots, that would get you in for free. Doesn't help with a hotel room, but it's something. I think there are enough people stuck with 4 slots to fit another GM in. Even 1 slot would get you the boon, but not free admission.
If you want a Vishkanya, we can talk. I still haven't figured out if I'm going to do anything with that one. I think it's going to be tough to pry a Ratfolk away from anyone without something good to trade. The last three boons have been pretty popular. Grippli, Dhampir, and now Ratfolk.
The best use for the Dragoon firearms for my Spellscar Drifter is to have the rifle around for early engagement (60 ft range increment), spend the 3 shots in it, drop it, pull out pistol and finish up.
But isn't reloading your rifle as a move action just as good?
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The best use for the Dragoon firearms for my Spellscar Drifter is to have the rifle around for early engagement (60 ft range increment), spend the 3 shots in it, drop it, pull out pistol and finish up.
That makes sense. It's a way to get a ful attack from long range without having Rapid Reload (Musket) / Musket Master
Two Dragoon Pistols are actually pretty nice for TWF. You'll just need 4 of them (later 6 or more). But the damage you can do with them in one or two rounds is pretty absurd and all you need to make this work is quick draw.