New DUNE movie greenlit from director of ARRIVAL and BLADE RUNNER 2049

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Aberzombie wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

October 22 over here in Canada, so yep, this Friday! can't wait!

I think it’ll be on HBOMax the same day. Which is good, since my current back problems would probably make it uncomfortable to sit in a movie theater for too long.

I’m looking forward to it!

I'm tempted to just watch it in my PJs then... but... MUST... GO.. TO THE THEATRE FOR THIS!!! (but go like super late on a rainly Sunday night perhaps? yesssssssss......)

[Orville Redenbacher]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Also does anyone know how Bond is doing right now (domestically I mean.)

Bond is at 101.2 mill (55 opening weekend) domestic.

[Tonya Woldridge]

I've deleted quite a few posts (and quotes) that were not on topic and were personal harassment on all sides. If you dislike a post, flag it and move on. The moderation team will take a look and respond. Engaging in back and forth harassment is not acceptable. The thread is back open for commentary about the movie Dune. If it devolves into more argumentation, I will close it down. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Irontruth]

I was briefly considering going to the theater for it, but the convenience of just watching it at home is very tempting. If it's genuinely amazing, I may make a trip for a second viewing.

[Orville Redenbacher]

Irontruth wrote:

I was briefly considering going to the theater for it, but the convenience of just watching it at home is very tempting. If it's genuinely amazing, I may make a trip for a second viewing.

This is what I have been doing for HBO Max releases so far. I decided its time to get back to the theater and wanted to support films not in the super genre.

[Quark Blast]

The only negative reviews are from "professional" reviewers who apparently don't understand the setting at all or, in at least once case, understand that this movie is indeed "Part 1".

[Tristan d'Ambrosius]

If they don't understand the setting then it's a failing of the movie as a movie.

[Orville Redenbacher]

From some reviews I read, they felt it had too much visual and not enough focus on the story. Though, Villanueva tends to have a high context communication style and it can often lead to that conclusion for folks who want a more traditional American film experience.

[Aberzombie]

The PT is going really well for my back, so now I’m considering maybe indulging in a trip to the theater. Especially since it’s s been a long time since I had movie theater popcorn…….

Mmmm….popcorn.

On the other hand, I’d save some money just sitting like a lump on my sofa and watching it.

[Quark Blast]

Tristan d'Ambrosius wrote:

If they don't understand the setting then it's a failing of the movie as a movie.

Or, they're way, way, way too caught up in their own useless preconceptions* to see what the movie is actually presenting.

A critic should indeed be critical of the art being reviewed; hopefully in a constructive manner. And in order to post a useful critique said critic ought to actually make an effort at understanding the piece before laying into it. No?

* Like, I have no idea how one could get a 'white savior' trope out of Herbert's work, but a clueless someone did.

[Orville Redenbacher]

On the surface level, its not that hard to get white savior out of Dune. Also, not many folks stuck around later to see how the legend of Muad'dib turned out either.

[Tristan d'Ambrosius]

What's that got to do with setting?

[Thomas Seitz]

All I know is I seriously doubt Eternals will do nearly as well as Shang-Chi is doing...but I could be wrong. Also, thanks Orville for the update.

[Quark Blast]

Orville Redenbacher wrote:

On the surface level, its not that hard to get white savior out of Dune. Also, not many folks stuck around later to see how the legend of Muad'dib turned out either.

It's even easier, with the Internet at your fingertips, to understand that Dune has no degree of converse with the 'white savior' trope. Which is the reason I open my prior post by stating such reviewers are, "way, way, way too caught up in their own useless preconceptions to see what the movie is actually presenting".

And the real lesson we see in the life of Muad'dib is that human saviors aren't.

Here is a 1-sentence Summary of the Dune Saga:

And to make sure that lesson hits home with humanity, Leto II rules with perfect prescience and an iron fist for several thousand years to veritably ingrain that our collective DNA.

[Irontruth]

Dune is very much a white savior story. You can argue that it's a good one, or doesn't make certain errors... if that's something you want to do. But the basic elements of the story as written by Herbert directly fall

I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Villeneuve gives his defense here.

And if we take his quote at face value... then Dune must still be a white savior story. A story can't be used as a criticism of something... unless the story is the thing. To show how that kind of story is bad, it must be (or contain within it) that kind of story.

Now, there's a case to be made using later books I think better, but I also don't remember them well enough to really dissect that. The core story from the first book does fit within a pretty standard white savior story. The 1984 movie definitely fit that mold.

And I am aware of Herbert's comments and responses on the issue of how he constructed his story. Just because he's aware of some of these issues does not mean he handled them successfully. Reiterating tropes in a subversive manner still requires the reiteration of those tropes. A subversive white savior story is still a white savior story, it just added subversive elements to it.

The author is not the definitive analysis of a work. The work lives on and influences people in ways that the author cannot control. The mere fact that many people DO see a white savior story in Dune, and this includes people like David Lynch, mean that it does contain that kind of story for them. It doesn't matter how much the author or anyone else says different.

That said, perhaps Villeneuve took active steps to address this either within the story of his movie, or in how he made it. Since neither of us have seen it, I don't think we can make any definitive statements to the matter. It does sound like he's well aware of this problem, and so there's a potential that he's dealt with it well. An unaware director could have fallen into the same traps that Lynch did. Splitting the story into two movies (I'd guess a minimum of 5 hours running time between the two) gives more time to add nuance to the story and address these kinds of issues. Based on Villeneuve's awareness, I am hopeful.

[Tristan d'Ambrosius]

If you have to look up on the Internet then the movie has failed as a movie. Everything that you need for the movie should be self-contained within the movie.

[Aberzombie]

With regard to what type of story Dune is - people see what they want to see.

I see a story about religion, politics, and the often dangerous intersection of the two. Later books in the series also touched on evolution (both biological and societal), and consciousness, things Herbert touched on in many of his other novels and short stories. All this, regardless of skin color.

Either way, I hope to enjoy the movie.

Which, it HBOMax was being truthful yesterday, will be available for streaming as early as 6 pm EST tonight. So now I know what I’ll be watching when the small humans go to bed.

[thejeff]

Aberzombie wrote:

With regard to what type of story Dune is - people see what they want to see.

I see a story about religion, politics, and the often dangerous intersection of the two. Later books in the series also touched on evolution (both biological and societal), and consciousness, things Herbert touched on in many of his other novels and short stories. All this, regardless of skin color.

It's quite possible for it to be about religion, politics and the intersection of the two and still be a white savior story.

Doesn't even make it a bad story, even if it is a bad thing.

It's going to be even harder in film than in the book to present the apparent "white savior" as not actually the savior he's taken as. And it's questionable how successful that was even in the novel.

[Irontruth]

Aberzombie wrote:

With regard to what type of story Dune is - people see what they want to see.

I see a story about religion, politics, and the often dangerous intersection of the two. Later books in the series also touched on evolution (both biological and societal), and consciousness, things Herbert touched on in many of his other novels and short stories. All this, regardless of skin color.

Either way, I hope to enjoy the movie.

Which, it HBOMax was being truthful yesterday, will be available for streaming as early as 6 pm EST tonight. So now I know what I’ll be watching when the small humans go to bed.

Race heavily influenced Herbert's writing, and this is something that he directly acknowledged. Many aspects of the story are directly influenced by the story of TE Lawrence, aka Lawrence of Arabia. Herbert's work is in some ways a proto anti-orientalism work. Edward Said's seminal work Orientalism was published in 1978, about a decade after Herbert's interviews addressing elements of orientalism in his book. With improved hindsight, we can see more than he saw then.

And I agree, different people will take away different things. Lynch's version is definite proof of that. It highly idealizes Paul and works hard to justify the violence he engages in. I decided to rewatch it last night in preparation for tonight. I normally have a class 5:30-9, but it's cancelled this week, so I'm going to watch it once I get done with some research for a paper.

[Aberzombie]

thejeff wrote:

It's quite possible for it to be about religion, politics and the intersection of the two and still be a white savior story.

Indeed. It’s just a matter of perspective.

[Aberzombie]

Irontruth wrote:

Race heavily influenced Herbert's writing, and this is something that he directly acknowledged. Many aspects of the story are directly influenced by the story of TE Lawrence, aka Lawrence of Arabia. Herbert's work is in some ways a proto anti-orientalism work. Edward Said's seminal work Orientalism was published in 1978, about a decade after Herbert's interviews addressing elements of orientalism in his book. With improved hindsight, we can see more than he saw then.

And I agree, different people will take away different things. Lynch's version is definite proof of that. It highly idealizes Paul and works hard to justify the violence he engages in. I decided to rewatch it last night in preparation for tonight. I normally have a class 5:30-9, but it's cancelled this week, so I'm going to watch it once I get done with some research for a paper.

Race, politics, religion, psychology - a lot of things influenced his writing. I think that’s one reasons I like his many works. Makes me wish Hollywood would someday focus on some of his other writings.

Lynch’s version was definitely an….interesting take. I’ve always considered it a good sci-if movie, just not necessarily a good adaptation of the book.

[Aberzombie]

Is it 5 pm (CST) yet?

Although, technically, I probably won’t watch it until closer to 8 pm. It nice knowing I could, though.

[Orville Redenbacher]

I felt the Lynch version hit the alien weirdness of the novel well, while not really capturing the nuances of the world building and story. Part of that is its just difficult to tackle something like Dune in a 2 hour time frame.