The limited release rate is a problem in this regard too, given that (as I understand it) they are contractually obligated to release an rpg book set in the realms each year or the IP rights revert to Ed Greenwood.
Although I'd personally love support for multiple campaign worlds (new and old), I'm glad to see RPG companies learning from past mistakes. Supporting multiple settings was a hugely significant factor in TSR's downfall. I'm glad those lessons have been learned.
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I think the problem with using other D&D settings besides Forgotten Realms is that many of them are too niche. Dark Sun is a desert world. Eberron is pulpy. Spelljammer is just bat crazy. Forgotten Realms is classic fantasy. And though that might strike many people as bland, it's their most neutral setting and I think that's why it won the day.
I do think they'll make forays into other settings from time to time (e.g. Curse of Strahd), but I don't begrudge their embrace of FR. It was a smart business move.
Either that or create an entirely new traditional fantasy setting, but why bother?
So why it is "Forgotten" Realms anyway?
I mean, from sound of how generic it is I'd imagine that is why its forgetable .-.
I think the reason is that because the Yawning Portal is set in Waterdeep and built upon the ruins of a tower belonging to a famous wizard known for planar travel and sitting on top of one of the entrance to Undermountain.
That's kinda far fetched but plausible enough so the rumors of theses famous dungeons come to the characters ears. How to reach them is completely up to the DM.
I think it's time for a new setting. I've never really understood the differences between Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms. They both seem like generic fantasy to me. Which makes them great jumping off points.
But now it's time for a new jumping off point.
There have been generations of gamers since the development of the Realms and Greyhawk. The new generations deserve to have a campaign setting of their own. One they can explore and discover and grow nostalgic about. One that doesn't have a bunch grognards telling them how it used to be when THEY ran Undermountain or Icewind Dale or the Flanaess or the Tomb of Horrors.
Maybe the new setting could have lots of very different environments, so it could support lots of different styles of campaigns. Urban politicking, jungle exploration, desert survival, pirates on the high seas, saving kingdoms from evil witch-kings, delving into dark dungeons, surviving harrowing gothic horrors, battling dragons, wrestling giants, exploring crumbling castles in ancient forests, and more could all exist on the new campaign setting.
For me at least, Greyhawk is an interesting mix of low fantasy and high magic. It feels a bit more lived in, like an actual country with people living ad dying in it.
Forgotten Realms feels...sterile. It's a showroom floor. I'm also put off by big event X, Y, or Z making massive landscape changes to a world I'm barely invested in to begin with. Learning Forgotten Realms lore is like learning three settings at once, each vaguely different from each other in specifics, but with the same generic blah populating it.
I can't really explain it better.
I was introduced to the Forgotten Realms through Azure Bonds, which is one of my all time favorite trilogies. I read a bunch of the FR novels in my youth after I got sick of the new Dragonlance stuff. I just wanted to read the story about how Theros Ironfeld got his magic arm!
Forgotten Realms seems more like a vague backdrop to throw ridiculously high-level NPCs against than an actual setting.
I don't think that is how Ed intended it but that is certainly what it seemed to turn into.
I still run my table top game in the setting. I rarely have the PCs interact with the famous NPCs (so when it does happen it is more fun to experience) and I have changed canon in many ways, for example recently I made a retired PC the Open Lord of Waterdeep.
I think whether FR is fun or not depends on whether the DM is a stickler for everything having to remain canon. If a PC cannot do something because it changes the "setting" I cannot imagine many players are going to want to spend very long playing there.
Ironically, once I switch from 3.5/Pathfinder to 5E I will be shifting to Dark Sun as my players have played in most locations in the Realms over the past 15 years. I did pick this product up on pre-order though in case I want to convert any of the locations to the Dark Sun world.
So I sent a tweet to Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford that they should dedicate their next FR book to Ed Greenwood.
They responded and it turns out they did! Not only does Sword Coast Adventure Guide have a forward detailing Greenwood's contribution to Forgotten Realms and D&D, but back in 4e they had a "Ed Greenwood Presents" Forgotten Realms book.
I think that's pretty awesome.
It makes the forgotten realms a much better setting for me to play, knowing the history of it and how the setting has been continuously growing since Ed started it at 8 years old.
Maybe the new setting could have lots of very different environments, so it could support lots of different styles of campaigns. Urban politicking, jungle exploration, desert survival, pirates on the high seas, saving kingdoms from evil witch-kings, delving into dark dungeons, surviving harrowing gothic horrors, battling dragons, wrestling giants, exploring crumbling castles in ancient forests, and more could all exist on the new campaign setting.
Sounds like Golarion :)
Maybe the new setting could have lots of very different environments, so it could support lots of different styles of campaigns. Urban politicking, jungle exploration, desert survival, pirates on the high seas, saving kingdoms from evil witch-kings, delving into dark dungeons, surviving harrowing gothic horrors, battling dragons, wrestling giants, exploring crumbling castles in ancient forests, and more could all exist on the new campaign setting.Sounds like Golarion :)
Hahaha!
I also think it needs a hook.
Dragonlance had missing gods and returning dragons, Darksun had no metal and lots of psionics, Eberron had magic-based industries and pulp action, Planescape had jaded philosophy and faeriepunk art and portals portals portals, Oriental Adventures & Al Quadim were "exotic," Mystara had immortal adventurers and a Hollow Earth, Birthright was gritty, Ravenloft was dark and horrific, and Spelljammer had ORCS! IN!! SPAAAACE!!!
Greyhawk and Golarion and the Realms seem kind of kitchen sink to me.
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Maybe the new setting could have lots of very different environments, so it could support lots of different styles of campaigns. Urban politicking, jungle exploration, desert survival, pirates on the high seas, saving kingdoms from evil witch-kings, delving into dark dungeons, surviving harrowing gothic horrors, battling dragons, wrestling giants, exploring crumbling castles in ancient forests, and more could all exist on the new campaign setting.
Funnily enough, the Forgotten Realms has all of that when you take into account that Faerun, Oriental Adventures (Kara-tur), Al Qadim, Maztica, and more are all on the same planet. Even the continent of Faerun has practically all of that.
One that doesn't have a bunch grognards telling them how it used to be when THEY ran [it]
However, once you add this stipulation, it makes it rather difficult. :)
So I sent a tweet to Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford that they should dedicate their next FR book to Ed Greenwood.
They responded and it turns out they did! Not only does Sword Coast Adventure Guide have a forward detailing Greenwood's contribution to Forgotten Realms and D&D, but back in 4e they had a "Ed Greenwood Presents" Forgotten Realms book.
I think that's pretty awesome.
It makes the forgotten realms a much better setting for me to play, knowing the history of it and how the setting has been continuously growing since Ed started it at 8 years old.
That was one of the few 4E books I bought. Very flullfy and not very crunchy, a throwback in many ways to 2ed FR products.
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I've never understood the high level NPC complaints about the realms. Your PCs only meet Elminster if the DM forces that down their throats, unless they go looking for him. Then there's no guarantee he'll have time to help or even see them.
If you are really lucky you might get to blag a 5 minute conversation with Bill Gates. It is highly unlikely that he would drop everything and devote the full resources of Microsoft to what's going on in your little corner of the world.
I actually like a world where there are plausibly higher level characters - good and bad - that your PCs can interact with when the reach higher levels. After all how many campaigns have we seen where the PCs reach level 15+ and all of a sudden big level characters seemingly appear from nowhere (no back story or place in the setting).
As for the setting being generic. Don't forget that if this is your first fantasy RPG then generic is not a bad thing. If it's the first time you've done something then you don't care if you everyone else has adventured in the realms for 40 years. What goes on in other groups doesn't carry into yours.
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I've never understood the high level NPC complaints about the realms. Your PCs only meet Elminster if the DM forces that down their throats, unless they go looking for him. Then there's no guarantee he'll have time to help or even see them..
Can't honestly comment much about D&D because I don't have spoiled old adventures for myself, but I imagine its similar problem with Shadowrun published adventures(and if gm is fan of those high level characters)
Like, some Shadowrun campaigns apparently have Harlequinn show up out of nowhere and have whole scene for themselves were players can do nothing were Harlequinn soloes something really powerful to show how badass he is.
I picked up my copy today from my local hobby story.
Tales of the Yawning Portal:
Level 1: Sunless Citadel. Originally published in 2000 for an introduction to 3e. An adventure with a mini dungeon and even includes a dragon!
Level 3: Forge of Fury. Originally published in 2000 as a sequel to Sunless Citadel. Dwarven themed.
Level 5: Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Originally published in 1980. Mayan/Aztec theme.
Level 8: White Plume Mountain. Originally published in 1979. One of the great classics.
Level 9: Dead in Thay. Originally released in 2014 as a playtest for 5th edition. Mega dungeon; tribute to Tomb of Horrors and Undermountain.
Level 11: Against the Giants. Originally published in 1978-1981 as a trilogy. Written while the 1e PHB was still being written.
"High level:" Tomb of Horrors. Presented at Origins Convention in 1975, published in 1978. Probably the most famous adventure ever written.
The book is set up so you can play any adventure in any order, with new PCs each time. Or you can go cover to cover with the same group of PCs.
How do you rate the conversion? (I'm specifically thinking S2 and S1 - did they retain the old school vibe, or more use the originals as inspiration for a new school adventure?)
Was it a direct, 1-1 conversion of monsters across all modules? Was attention paid to ensuring challenges were "CR-appropriate" (again, specifically wrt to the old school S and G series modules).
I have bought every other book wizards have released and like them all. This is the one I won't be buying... because I desperately want to be a player for these. I started the hobby in the last few years of 2nd Ed and started off with homebrew so missed out on a lot of these classics. I DMd sunless citadel and Forge of fury but I know nothing about the others beyond what the legends say.
Yeah, I've also pretty much only played homebrew stuff (although we did just finish a RotRL conversion to 5e last year....). I DID run a Dragonlance module as a one shot session (don't give regular campaign PCs access to a room full of gold bars!!! They're worthless in Dragonlance, but everywhere else...).
I've heard stories about some of them, though. Tomb of Horrors sounds horrible to me: a bunch of DM-fiat deaths? No thanks.
It will be interesting to see the writing credits on the conversions. Particularly as it's leveled at 11ish.
Was it a direct, 1-1 conversion of monsters across all modules? Was attention paid to ensuring challenges were "CR-appropriate" (again, specifically wrt to the old school S and G series modules).
Isn't it sorta the point with some rooms in the G-series that it's not supposed to be a fair fight? A room full of a thousand giants that you have to ninja past instead of engage head-on.
Yes. I'm wondering whether they kept that philosophy. Same with S1's "instant death if you explore wrong" traps.
I'm curious whether they've produced something translated from the original into modern sensibilities or whether they've replicated the feel of the old modules room-for-room.
I never played Against the Giants, but I looked for a room with a lot of giants in it. This adventure is broken up in several parts, and in part 1 (which I assume is a translation of S1), there's a Great Hall that has a lot of giants and ogres eating dinner: 1 frost giant, 1 hill giant, 2 stone giants, 1 cloud giant, 1 polar bear, 8 ogres, and 6 servants (which use ogre stats). That sure as heck seems like a room where you'd have to sneak past and not engage, or you'll die.
Tomb of Horrors seems to be a fairly good translation. Instant death if you make the wrong move. At first, I thought it was toned down a bit. But I downloaded the original and it looks to be an honest translation.
I guess when I played it, the DM actually made it harder. For example, in the room with the flying swords, there are only two. Checked the original, and yup, just two. But when I played it, the DM made all the swords in that room flying.
There are two primary differences from the original that seem to make it easier. 1) The module provides DC's for checks to determine what something is. For example, a DC 20 Intelligence (Arcana) lets you know that it's a sphere of annihilation (but only if you take a minute to study it). I didn't see such a thing in the original, and when I played it the DM didn't let us do that. We had to figure it out by trial and error.
2) If the entire book is played in order, then the preceding adventure, Against the Giants, will put you at level 14, which is the maximum recommended level in the original module (11-14). So the PCs will have an easier time by virtue of being higher level.
I will note that the introduction to Tomb of Horrors chapter gives the following warning: "This is a thinking person's adventure, and if your group is a hack-and-slay gathering, they will be unhappy." Additionally, this is the only adventure in the book which doesn't explicitly give a level. It just says that only high level characters stand a chance of surviving.
If you have specific questions, I can look it up on my lunch break or when I get home.
It's a beautiful book with great illustrations. I'm going to get good use from it. Though, the room descriptions are sometimes very wordy. Two pages for the first champer in The Lost Shrine? Ouch... that'll be tricky to untangle at the table.