I guess the root of this question is how long per day does a caster need to be able to cast a spell in order to create a scroll of it?
If I'm a half-elf sorcerer with Paragon Surge and scribe scroll then can I effectively create a any scroll? Basically I know and cast any spell for 1 min/ Caster Level per day times however many 2nd level spell slots I have. Naturally limited by the highest level spells a sorcerer knows.
RAI opinions are fine, but I'm farm ore interested in RAW.
I assume you're using paragon surge to gain Expanded Arcana. I don't think it works unless you can get the duration of paragon surge to be longer than the length of time required for scribe scroll. It's hard to get a minutes per level spell up to two hours, even with arcanist tinkering.
Correct about Expanded Arcana.
Is there a rule for that or are you just speculating?
Best I can tell you only need to cast the spell 1/d required for the crafting of any magic item. Scroll or otherwise.
This particular combo seems like a severe corner case (half-elf only, specific class, specific feat), but I'm just curious if theres a specific reason why it's not possible.
8 hrs not 2 hrs as a craft session is 8 hrs for up to 1,000 gp.
Except for potions or scrolls that have a base price up to 250gp. Then it is 2 hours.
8 hrs not 2 hrs as a craft session is 8 hrs for up to 1,000 gp.
Understood, but not directly the point in question. In that 8 hours how many times do you need to cast the spell and/or know the spell in question in order to infuse the magic item?
Actually, per the "other sources" you can have another person with the spell cast it to infuse the magic item. Does that person need to be there hanging out or can they just show up once per 8 hour day to cast the spell?
There isn't an interpretation of Paragon Surge or the magic item creation process. that lets you keep the Expanded Arcana feat up long enough for scroll creation.
I assume you're using paragon surge to gain Expanded Arcana. I don't think it works unless you can get the duration of paragon surge to be longer than the length of time required for scribe scroll. It's hard to get a minutes per level spell up to two hours, even with arcanist tinkering.Correct about Expanded Arcana.
Is there a rule for that or are you just speculating?
Best I can tell you only need to cast the spell 1/d required for the crafting of any magic item. Scroll or otherwise.
This particular combo seems like a severe corner case (half-elf only, specific class, specific feat), but I'm just curious if theres a specific reason why it's not possible.
I thought I saw some rule that the person providing the prerequisite had to be there for the entire casting time. If you only have the spell for a few minutes, then you are no longer a person providing the prerequisite.
But I can't seem to find that rule, so maybe I'm in error.
There is this:
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.which strongly suggests that being able to cast the spell at the appropriate time is enough to satisfy the requirement, because 'using' a spell completion, spell trigger, or SLA is certainly not a 2-8 hour duration either.
Save that Scribe Scroll along with Brew Potion, and Craft Wand, requires that the magic item CREATOR have direct access i.e. knowledge of the spell in question.
Save that Scribe Scroll along with Brew Potion, and Craft Wand, requires that the magic item CREATOR have direct access i.e. knowledge of the spell in question.
Not quite correct.
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
The second bolded statement says those spell prerequisites can't be ignored. The first says that spell prerequisites can come an outside source.
A caster does not need to personally know the spell being scribed or brewed, but someone (or some item on hand) must.
You can argue that all the various subsections of the crafting rules say that the creator must have the spell, but that isn't entirely correct as shown by the first bolded sentence. And isn't correct at all for wondrous items, which also say the creator must know the spell (which isn't true at all - the spell prerequisite can be skipped entirely).
Yeah, I would buy that argument. I certainly think it's RAI, and RAW supports the same conclusion.This might be the line you were looking for:
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
So once paragon surge expires, you no longer meet the prereq and can no longer craft.RAW, there is nothing that states you must only meet the crafting requirements for a single instant. If you don't have access to the spell/staff/scroll/wand/other caster for the full duration of the crafting session (4 interruptible hours minimum) you cant craft a scroll.
This is the most convincing argument.
Though I cant see a DM allowing it, I was kinda hoping it was RAW.
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists and must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class. You don't need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can't be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class.
As there is no mention of how long you can hold this ability, the Mythic ability Wild Arcana is the ability that would let you create any Arcane Scroll.
I guess the root of this question is how long per day does a caster need to be able to cast a spell in order to create a scroll of it?
If I'm a half-elf sorcerer with Paragon Surge and scribe scroll then can I effectively create a any scroll? Basically I know and cast any spell for 1 min/ Caster Level per day times however many 2nd level spell slots I have. Naturally limited by the highest level spells a sorcerer knows.
RAI opinions are fine, but I'm farm ore interested in RAW.
Well, if you can't keep the paragon surge spell active long enough to craft the item, then keep it up long enough to store the spell.
I don't expect anyone would have a problem with someone crafting an item using a Ring of Spell Storing, right?
Seems valid.
Yeah, that's a pretty steep entry cost for higher level scrolls. Unless you're doing it on a regular basis, may be cheaper just to buy the scroll yourself.Only if no one in the party can find a good use for a personal range spell on the wizard list, or another characters list, or want scrolls of spells unique to their list...
Rings of (lesser) spell storing are generally useful.
Sure, minor rings are only 18k and that gets you many useful scrolls up to 3rd level.
50k for up to 5th level scrolls?
or
200k for up to 9th level scrolls?
That's a pretty steep pre-condition to scribing scrolls of higher levels.
True, but it's literally any spell ever. Plus if you can craft rings half that cost.