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This has been my main problem with Paizo for years now, and I really need to bring this up here as feedback.
Please find another method for packaging material in you shipments. Currently Paizo is the only company I order from that still uses this terrible material.
My main issue with the packaging peanuts is the mess it makes. They easily fly out of the box and get all over the place and are difficult to clean up due to the static properties of them. My wife has asked me multiple times to stop ordering from Paizo because of this. One of these times I am worried she will force the matter.
So for my sanity and my wife's please oh please finally stop using this stuff!
Edit: there is nothing worse then having a box with another box inside it with packaging peanuts on the top that have no place to go when you pull out that box but to fly all over you place.
Customer Service Representative
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Hi Dragnmoon,
Thank you for your feedback! We are aware that many people dislike the packing peanuts and the mess that they can cause. However, as stated by Jeff Alvarez in a thread on this topic, they are currently our only option.
As Jeff said, we are constantly looking into alternatives that will improve this, but for now our hands are a bit tied. Believe me, since Customer Service opens and processes returns when we receive them, we are not fans of the peanuts either. Our custodian probably hates them more than anyone! If we are able to eventually find a new method that is effective and fits our needs, we will likely shout it from the rooftops in excitement.
Until then, we'll continue to do our best and look for solutions. Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns that we can assist you with in the meantime, and we'll be happy to help.
Thanks, and I hope you have a great weekend and Happy Holidays!
-Katina
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I get that Paizo says those don't work for them, but how can all those options work for other companies but not you...
I just don't get that.
Small and large companies have found ways to ship with no problems not using packaging peanuts, I believe Paizo can as well. I have not gotten packaging peanuts in years from any other company. I think that says a lot about if it can be done.
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The look on my wife's face when a Paizo package arrives is withering. Why? The peanuts. Boxes are great - we have cats so that is free entertainment for them. The peanuts on the other hand...cling to the books as they are being taken out of the box, cling to me as I'm unpacking the box, cling to the floor, my desk, my cats who are trying to help unpack the boxes, my dog who sniffed the box and was rather surprised at the peanuts that jumped up at her out of the box to stick to her nose. I'm pretty sure the peanuts are sentient and attempting to spread their green peanut spores all over the world.
Just wait till the peanuts rise up and are our new overlords. We'll be able to say it all started with that last Paizo subscription box that arrived. Gaming enjoyment was the beginning of the end.
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We are aware that many people dislike the packing peanuts and the mess that they can cause.
To be fair, I strongly expect that "many people" is "virtually every Paizo customer who has ever got a box with peanuts in it". There aren't going to be many - if any - of us who like them, and I find it a stretch to imagine a majority who are ambivalent.
It's just that few of us bother to comment. Sadly I got a peanutbox just yesterday, so it's freshly on my mind.
I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm willing to vote with my wallet. If it costs an extra $1 a box, I'll pay a surcharge for the inflated air bags or packing paper or rotten, decaying fish carcasses. Because they'd all be better than peanuts.
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We are aware that many people dislike the packing peanuts and the mess that they can cause.To be fair, I strongly expect that "many people" is "virtually every Paizo customer who has ever got a box with peanuts in it". There aren't going to be many - if any - of us who like them, and I find it a stretch to imagine a majority who are ambivalent.
It's just that few of us bother to comment. Sadly I got a peanutbox just yesterday, so it's freshly on my mind.
I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm willing to vote with my wallet. If it costs an extra $1 a box, I'll pay a surcharge for the inflated air bags or packing paper or rotten, decaying fish carcasses. Because they'd all be better than peanuts.
I will vote with my wallet too. I'll pay for different packing material.
Just curious, do any customers like the peanuts?
Sort of. When this has come up before there have been several who said they wanted whatever is cheapest. As I understand it, that is one of the attractions of peanuts - so those customers kind of "like the peanuts" in that they want paizo to continue using them but not out of any real affection for them.
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Just curious, do any customers like the peanuts?
Chaos & Minion (my cats) do love to play with the peanuts. But we have a lifetime supply by now...
I've thought of collecting them and bringing them back to Paizo office, or PaizoCon... but then I imagine the container exploding on the bus and getting tried for war crimes.
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Just curious, do any customers like the peanuts?Sort of. When this has come up before there have been several who said they wanted whatever is cheapest. As I understand it, that is one of the attractions of peanuts - so those customers kind of "like the peanuts" in that they want paizo to continue using them but not out of any real affection for them.
This is kinda me. I'm not interested in paying more for bags of air because the peanuts don't bother me. I've learned to get my stuff out of the box without getting peanuts everywhere. The only thing that I don't like is when my 4yo gets into them; she likes to pull them apart.
-Skeld
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This is kinda me. I'm not interested in paying more for bags of air because the peanuts don't bother me. I've learned to get my stuff out of the box without getting peanuts everywhere. The only thing that I don't like is when my 4yo gets into them; she likes to pull them apart.
Starts with "o", ends with "ption".
You're kind of hinting that those of us who are asking for change are somehow unable to learn how to get our product out without a mess. Thing is, it's still annoying, even after having learned. And then I've got a garbage bag full of the things every six months because there's no path for any other disposal where I live. So landfill.
It's okay for you to not want to spend more for convenience and cleanliness. I'd like it to be okay for me (and others) to have that choice, if that's the only way to not have peanuts in our lives.
Even bubblewrap is less Asmodean. People have linked to very cheap rolls of packing material in incredible bulk, but we're still in green peanut Hell. Shrug. I've said my bit.
Mess isn't the only issue. I have had a book open and get peanuts inside it, which then resulted in a kind of crease/bulge in the pages as it got squished in transit.
I don't think that's common though (plus, paizo's returns policy is pretty generous).
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Can't they just stuff the boxes with Kobolds, they already have them running around the basement.
I certainly can't imagine PETA caring, "just Kobolds, no, no, do whatever you want, we have much more adorable creatures to save!"
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As someone who does lots of shipping of my own for EBay, I don't mind them. They can be reused, and are less likely to damage individual miniatures than the confines of wrapping it in most bubble-wrap or the stiff-ness of air-bags. Airbags also tend to deflate over time, so are less re-usable. Knowing that many of the peanuts are already being reused from the distributor's shipping to paizo makes it even more eco-friendly.
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I don't understand why this is even a conversation.
Peanuts protect the stuff I buy from Paizo. I pick up the four or five that come out of the box when I open it, and I put them back in the box. Then I throw away the box and read the books I just bought.
Is the point of this argument that people seriously can't get books out of a box without throwing peanuts all over the place? I honestly don't get it.
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I don't understand why this is even a conversation.
Allow me to assist. Even though I'd said my bit and thought I was ready to step out of the thread.
Peanuts protect the stuff I buy from Paizo.
Other, non-peanut-things could also protect stuff you buy from Paizo.
I pick up the four or five that come out of the box when I open it, and I put them back in the box.
Four. Or five. Who are you? I don't know how your orders manage to be so dramatically different from mine, but you're off from my numbers by - at minimum - an order of magnitude. Meaning I get forty to fifty. Minimum. (Excepting when I get an AP/module only, in a flat-pack envelope, which has zero peanuts.)
Generally, what I'll get with the smallest possible Paizo box that involves peanuts, is a flat-pack envelope with my AP/module, which is at the bottom of a box. On top of that flat-pack I'll find the mini or two or five, the package of dice, or elevation marker, or whatever other goodies I ordered that made the flat-pack alone impossible. On top of that there'll be two or more inches of peanuts. Getting the envelope out means shifting basically a box full of peanuts. They stick to my hands. They jump out of the box onto the envelope as it's lifted. They basically dimension door onto whatever product I'm lifting out. Picking them off products is frustrating because they then need to be picked off the hand that was used to pick them off the product. Then they have to be picked off the hand used to pick them off the hand because... they're evil.
Is it possible to do without making a mess? Yes. Is it annoying? Still yes. Is this a first-world-problems situation? Absolutely yes. But in my defense, I live in the first world, so I don't have starvation, unsanitary drinking water, or lion attacks to complain about, so I have to make do with peanut diatribes.
Then I throw away the box and read the books I just bought.
Big grin...
I guess I'm just too dumb to manage that.
Is the point of this argument that people seriously can't get books out of a box without throwing peanuts all over the place? I honestly don't get it.
Yes. There's something significantly different from from your experiences from (some of) ours. Again, I end up with a garbage bag full of these things each year. That doesn't happen because I get a billion boxes with four or five each.
To be clear... this is the only thing in my Paizo experience which is other than stellar. It's not the end of the world, and it's not a deal-breaker for me. I'm not freaking out or losing my cool. It's just something that is annoying to many of us which is... annoying to many of us. Shrug.
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This is kinda me. I'm not interested in paying more for bags of air because the peanuts don't bother me. I've learned to get my stuff out of the box without getting peanuts everywhere. The only thing that I don't like is when my 4yo gets into them; she likes to pull them apart.Starts with "o", ends with "ption".
You're kind of hinting that those of us who are asking for change are somehow unable to learn how to get our product out without a mess. Thing is, it's still annoying, even after having learned. And then I've got a garbage bag full of the things every six months because there's no path for any other disposal where I live. So landfill.
It's okay for you to not want to spend more for convenience and cleanliness. I'd like it to be okay for me (and others) to have that choice, if that's the only way to not have peanuts in our lives.
Even bubblewrap is less Asmodean. People have linked to very cheap rolls of packing material in incredible bulk, but we're still in green peanut Hell. Shrug. I've said my bit.
I'm not "hinting" at anything, Anguish, nor am I implying that I'm smarter or better than anyone else because I can get books out of a box without getting 50 peanuts on the floor.
My comments are nothing more than an attempt to provide feedback, especially when people start throwing around phrases like "I'm willing to pay more if..." because I'm not. I pay enough S&H as things are. Options are fine as long as they remain optional.
Anything you inferred from my comments is on you.
-Skeld
Edited.
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The part I found expensive is trying to house the packing elephant to eat the packing peanuts.
I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
You are all missing the point of peanuts. You are suppose to eat them. Or make them into paste and eat that. Only elephants like there peanuts on the floor.
I just open the box outside. They're biodegradable, right? So let them biodegrade :)
I also end up with only single digit numbers of peanuts on the floor. My biggest concern is my cat dumping the box out to play with the rest.
Full disclosure: I am an idiot. Hopefully I manage to be somewhat entertaining while exhibiting my idiocy, but it's clearly visible nonetheless.
I missed a word or two of the post I was replying to. I somehow got the (woefully and unforgivably mistaken) impression that Chaderick only had four or five peanuts per package. Silly, silly me. Nay, that was merely the quantity of escapees which managed to vault over his nimble fingers and make their bid for freedom. So, um... oops.
In my defense - and I admit this is a poor defense at best - I'm illiterate. Can't read at all. I am forced to merely pretend I know what people are posting via context and non-verbal hints. Faking it, really.
I'd say "mea culpa", but Rome has fallen, so I guess instead I'll just say "I'm sorry", which lacks a certain gravitas.
I gave up gravity recently, couldn't be happier.
However, if you wouldn't mind giving me a push towards the fridge...
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I also end up with only single digit numbers of peanuts on the floor. My biggest concern is my cat dumping the box out to play with the rest.Full disclosure: I am an idiot. Hopefully I manage to be somewhat entertaining while exhibiting my idiocy, but it's clearly visible nonetheless.
I missed a word or two of the post I was replying to. I somehow got the (woefully and unforgivably mistaken) impression that Chaderick only had four or five peanuts per package. Silly, silly me. Nay, that was merely the quantity of escapees which managed to vault over his nimble fingers and make their bid for freedom. So, um... oops.
In my defense - and I admit this is a poor defense at best - I'm illiterate. Can't read at all. I am forced to merely pretend I know what people are posting via context and non-verbal hints. Faking it, really.
I'd say "mea culpa", but Rome has fallen, so I guess instead I'll just say "I'm sorry", which lacks a certain gravitas.
Alas, it happens to us all on occasion.
-Skeld
This is kinda me. I'm not interested in paying more for bags of air because the peanuts don't bother me. I've learned to get my stuff out of the box without getting peanuts everywhere. The only thing that I don't like is when my 4yo gets into them; she likes to pull them apart.Starts with "o", ends with "ption".
The problem is that offering that option and stocking both types of packing material itself costs Paizo money.
The peanuts don't bother me. It just takes a few extra minutes to gather the stray peanuts up and put them in a bag. Those minutes definitely aren't worth $1 to me.
I also end up with only single digit numbers of peanuts on the floor. My biggest concern is my cat dumping the box out to play with the rest.
This is a concern I can understand.
I missed a word or two of the post I was replying to. I somehow got the (woefully and unforgivably mistaken) impression that Chaderick only had four or five peanuts per package. Silly, silly me. Nay, that was merely the quantity of escapees which managed to vault over his nimble fingers and make their bid for freedom. So, um... oops.
Oh, thank goodness. I was trying to work out how to avoid insulting you while also asking how the hell you could send "forty to fifty" peanuts flying every time you opened the box. I was going to ask if you got your boxes open with dynamite. :P
I also end up with only single digit numbers of peanuts on the floor. My biggest concern is my cat dumping the box out to play with the rest.Full disclosure: I am an idiot. Hopefully I manage to be somewhat entertaining while exhibiting my idiocy, but it's clearly visible nonetheless.
I missed a word or two of the post I was replying to. I somehow got the (woefully and unforgivably mistaken) impression that Chaderick only had four or five peanuts per package. Silly, silly me. Nay, that was merely the quantity of escapees which managed to vault over his nimble fingers and make their bid for freedom. So, um... oops.
In my defense - and I admit this is a poor defense at best - I'm illiterate. Can't read at all. I am forced to merely pretend I know what people are posting via context and non-verbal hints. Faking it, really.
I'd say "mea culpa", but Rome has fallen, so I guess instead I'll just say "I'm sorry", which lacks a certain gravitas.
Happens to me ALL THE TIME.
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So, just a voice on the side of meh, whatever works best for Paizo is fine for me. Do I like the static-laden green peanuts? No, I am ambivalent towards them. I take extra care when opening any package from Paizo and keep a garbage receptacle on hand. and only ever have one or two hit the floor, with maybe a half dozen sticking to to whatever I am pulling out.
Are they annoying? yes, but not as annoying as paying a bunch extra or waiting until god knows when for Amazon to get me my product. I have had nothing but horrid luck with Amazon when it comes to getting gaming books I preordered in a timely manner.
Also a hell of a lot better than my books showing up all dinged up because the were free-floating in the package. I will do plenty of damage in the years ahead I don't need the books to come to me in a substandard shape, which has never been a problem for me that Paizo did not immediately rectify.
Is Amazon's method of plastic wrapping them to a piece of cardboard that difficult/expensive? No peanuts, no dings, minimal material all recyclable, low fuss... Maybe that's only economical on the level of scale that Amazon operates, but I do like it.
What I do is I take like a use once plastic market bag and put the peanuts in there and recycle them at my curbside recyling. I then keep the box and put stuff in it.
I just open the box outside. They're biodegradable, right? So let them biodegrade :)
I could be wrong (and maybe you were kidding?), but no, I don't believe these are the biodegradeable kind at all, merely recycled.
There are biodegradable packing peanuts, but those are made of corn starch, not styrofoam. They're also anti-static. However, they're probably more costly than the standard packing peanuts.
I just open the box outside. They're biodegradable, right? So let them biodegrade :)I could be wrong (and maybe you were kidding?), but no, I don't believe these are the biodegradeable kind at all, merely recycled.
No, I wasn't kidding. I seem to recall the folks at Paizo saying the reason they go with these particular packing peanuts is because they're biodegradable.
After all, there's lots of packing peanuts out there that don't result in static-y peanut hell.
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I thought green packing peanuts were an indicator of being made of recycled material, not biodegradability.
EDIT: well you learn something new every day. apparently they are made of recycled polystyrene but are also specially treated to break down in a landfill withing 1-5 years.
And the pink ones are anti-static.
I thought green packing peanuts were an indicator of being made of recycled material, not biodegradability.
EDIT: well you learn something new every day. apparently they are made of recycled polystyrene but are also specially treated to break down in a landfill withing 1-5 years.
And the pink ones are anti-static.
Right ... and anything that breaks down in 1-5 years in a landfill will break down far faster in my yard :)
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Paizo is the only place I buy from that uses packing peanuts, but it's also the place where the stuff I order is the least scuffed up. Pathfinder books from Amazon seem to always pick up small scuffs, because the air bags just don't do as well as packing peanuts to protect my stuff. I'm glad that Paizo uses the packing peanuts, because I like how my books come out of their packages.
I missed this thread the 1st time around, but I loathe those green packing peanuts. I have zero problems w/ other kinds of packing peanuts; it's just the fact that these green ones stick to anything and everything. Annoying as all hell, truth be told.
Can't they just stuff the boxes with Kobolds, they already have them running around the basement.
I certainly can't imagine PETA caring, "just Kobolds, no, no, do whatever you want, we have much more adorable creatures to save!"
Actually, PETA happens to be run by kobolds. Explains a lot, don't it?
Just a reminder, I still don't give a heckin' gosh about peanuts and would not pay $1 extra on an already extremely expensive shipping bill to avoid thirty seconds' hassle. It boggles my mind that anyone would. That's coming out of next week's grocery money!
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Just a reminder, I still don't give a heckin' gosh about peanuts and would not pay $1 extra on an already extremely expensive shipping bill to avoid thirty seconds' hassle. It boggles my mind that anyone would. That's coming out of next week's grocery money!
Of all the publishers/retailers I buy from Paizo charges the most for shipping and handling. So I would not be a fan if they decided to charge even more for using an actual good packing product.
Something I suspect on that front is that many companies are willing to take a small lose on shipping and handling while Paizo is less willing to.
Most companies I order directly from either use free shipping within the united states or use media parcel for books to keep the cost down. Paizo is unwilling to use media parcel because of their interpretation of the USPS rules.
If it was not for the benefits I get for having a subscription through Paizo I would never order anything from their web page.
Edit: Just to be clear I never use Amazon to buy my RPG products, I either order directly from the publishers or go through stores that have a good online page (Noble Knight Games). For those over seas you may have a different experience.
Edit Edit: The shipping part of Paizo is something you will never find me supporting unless they changed those policies that piss me off so much. I have almost rage quit ordering from them a couple of times ;). Once actually my wife got so angry from the peanuts that she told me never to order from them again. After a short argument I got her to calm down on that. She still asks me to stop ordering from them but has not raged as much as that one time. See Paizo you are causing problems with my marriage! ;).
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Out of every single product I have bought from Paizo I have not once got one that was even so much as scuffed or bent (the inside pages of my first copy of Ultimate Intrigue was damaged but that was from a bizarre warehouse mishap, not from the shipping), so taking a few seconds to wipe the sticky nuts off doesn't really bother me.
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Out of every single product I have bought from Paizo I have not once got one that was even so much as scuffed or bent (the inside pages of my first copy of Ultimate Intrigue was damaged but that was from a bizarre warehouse mishap, not from the shipping), so taking a few seconds to wipe the sticky nuts off doesn't really bother me.
Based on my experience (which is limited since I am only one person) getting your products with out damage is still possible without the peanuts. So I personally don't accept the peanuts as the only choice to get an undamaged product.
except in one case (A recent delivery from Monte Cook Games) all damaged products I have received to include from Paizo were caused by spotty handling by the courier and had nothing to do with the actual packing process and the damaged would have happened no matter what process was used for packaging. The one time that was not the case was The Strange Box for which the damage was actual due to the lack of any packing product which caused The Strange Box to split and break during the handling through the courier. Monte Cook Games admitted to their error and changed the packing procedures and are replacing the damaged products.
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Yeah I can't really comment on Amazon since I don't order any of my RPG stuff from them.
My experience from Amazon on books I have ordered from them is shrink wrapped plastic around the books that are on a sheet of card board surrounded by the air bags. Though none of those were damaged I have a very limited amount of times to really have a good opinion on that.
Amazon's packing has gotten worse in my opinion; these days if I get books from them they're typically just loose in a box since they don't seem to do the shrinkwrap to cardboard thing any more, and books with slipcovers are often in less than pristine condition.
I used to just open my Paizo boxes outside and let the peanuts fly and then dump them into the front garden but my darling Amy said she'd love me forever if I'd stop doing that (and one would assume the converse, as well). So I stopped doing that.
But I still open all Paizo packages outside. Much less of a hassle that way :)