Guidelines for lvl 1 Rogue in PFS


Advice


Hi im playing my first PFS campaign today and i made this Rogue.
Can you make any Recomendations?

Lvl 1 - Human Rogue

STR 10
DEX 18 (Using Human Boost)
CON 10
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 10

Feats

Dodge
Mobility

9 Hp HD + Favored Class

Equipment:
Shortbow
Dagger
Shortsword

Leather Armor

AC : 17
Touch : 15
Flat-Footed : 12

My plan is basically Hide and shoot until i can get Weapon Finesse Then i will follow the spring attack path.
I have 70Gp to spend yet so any suggestions on equipment would be apreciated.

Sczarni

Welcome to PFS =)

First thing I noticed: it's a 20pt buy. You've only used 14.

Next thing I noticed: if you own Pathfinder Unchained, Unchained Rogues get Weapon Finesse for free at 1st level.

Third thing I noticed: you only posted combat stats, but combat is only a small portion of PFS. What will be your role outside of combat?

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Welcome to PFS, KAozdl!

You can actually bump up your stats a bit more, as PFS uses a 20 point point-buy for ability score generation. I would definitely recommend increasing your Con score. I like to have at least 12 on any character and 14 for anyone who will see melee.

If you own Pathfinder Unchained, you should definitely consider the Unchained Rogue, unless you are playing Core PFS. Unchained Rogue has finesse training, which gives you weapon finesse automatically at first level.

One nice thing about PFS is that you can completely rebuild your character until you play it at second level, which will give you a chance to see how you like your build.

Good things to consider for starting gear:

Camping gear: bedroll, waterskin, a couple days' rations. Not all scenarios have you making your way through the woods, but some do.

Light/Fire: A couple of torches and flint and steel or a couple of sunrods. Have some way to see in the dark.

Splash weapons: Swarms are the worst. Acid flasks are pretty cheap.

Bypassing DR: It can be hard to get all this from your starting gear, but during first level you'll want to be able to have different damage types (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing) and special materials (silver, cold iron).

Edit: Nefreet is faster. And less wordy.

Scarab Sages

Also rope.


Tallow wrote:
Also rope.

I buyed 2 silk ropes and a rogue kit wich has everything i possibly need.


Kate Baker wrote:

Welcome to PFS, KAozdl!

You can actually bump up your stats a bit more, as PFS uses a 20 point point-buy for ability score generation. I would definitely recommend increasing your Con score. I like to have at least 12 on any character and 14 for anyone who will see melee.

If you own Pathfinder Unchained, you should definitely consider the Unchained Rogue, unless you are playing Core PFS. Unchained Rogue has finesse training, which gives you weapon finesse automatically at first level.

One nice thing about PFS is that you can completely rebuild your character until you play it at second level, which will give you a chance to see how you like your build.

Good things to consider for starting gear:

Camping gear: bedroll, waterskin, a couple days' rations. Not all scenarios have you making your way through the woods, but some do.

Light/Fire: A couple of torches and flint and steel or a couple of sunrods. Have some way to see in the dark.

Splash weapons: Swarms are the worst. Acid flasks are pretty cheap.

Bypassing DR: It can be hard to get all this from your starting gear, but during first level you'll want to be able to have different damage types (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing) and special materials (silver, cold iron).

Edit: Nefreet is faster. And less wordy.

Hi, in the rules says that a 16 costs 10 points and a 14 costs 5 so with a 16 and 2 14 im done with the 20 points, but maybe it is an error in the spanish version of the rules


KAozdl wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Also rope.
I buyed 2 silk ropes and a rogue kit wich has everything i possibly need.

So you're over light load? Rogue's kit (assuming the one from Ultimate Equipment) weighs 37 pounds, two silk ropes weigh a total of 10 pounds, leather armor weighs 15 pounds, and your Str 10 gives you a maximum light load of 33 pounds. You're actually almost into a heavy load.

Sczarni

KAozdl wrote:
Hi, in the rules says that a 16 costs 10 points and a 14 costs 5 so with a 16 and 2 14 im done with the 20 points

Indeed. So right now you have:

STR 10
DEX 18 (Using Human Boost)
CON 10
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 10

But you could have something like:

STR 10
DEX 18 (Using Human Boost)
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 10


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Nefreet wrote:
KAozdl wrote:
Hi, in the rules says that a 16 costs 10 points and a 14 costs 5 so with a 16 and 2 14 im done with the 20 points

Indeed. So right now you have:

STR 10
DEX 18 (Using Human Boost)
CON 10
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 10

But you could have something like:

STR 10
DEX 18 (Using Human Boost)
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 10

I mistyped it.

There are 2 14 indeed


Minna Hiltula wrote:
KAozdl wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Also rope.
I buyed 2 silk ropes and a rogue kit wich has everything i possibly need.
So you're over light load? Rogue's kit (assuming the one from Ultimate Equipment) weighs 37 pounds, two silk ropes weigh a total of 10 pounds, leather armor weighs 15 pounds, and your Str 10 gives you a maximum light load of 33 pounds. You're actually almost into a heavy load.

Yes but i supose i will not be carrying all my equipment into a fight.

Im using the ultimate equipment one indeed.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would suggest you buy a Cold Iron dagger (2 gp) and Silver Light Mace (25 gp) in order to deal with two common types of DR.

Since you have a bow, buy Cold Iron arrows. The difference in cost is minimal.

As others have said, Pathfinder Unchained Rogue is an upgrade from the CRB rogue. You can see what it changes here, but in order to use it in PFS you have to own the PDF or book.

Any idea what traits you want or what faction you want to join?

Hope you have fun!

Silver Crusade

Depending on how much you want to min/max, here are some suggestions.

1. Unchained Rogue. The other unchained classes are different to their core counterparts. The unchained rogue is better. (Don't worry, you can change him to unchained for free if you do it before you hit level 2)

2. You NEED to hit your enemy. With your current build there you get a +0 hit bonus. If you choose the unchained rogue you'll get weapon finesse for free. If not you'll want to grab the rogue finesse trick on level 2. If you do neither you are in for a frustrating ride.

3. Let's break down what the stats do for you.

STR - Plus to hit (doesn't matter to you if you are going finesse), plus do damage (doesn't matter to you as much because most of your damage will come from sneak attack, not from strength). 10 is alright.

DEX - Plus to hit with weapon finesse, plus to damage if you go unchained, plus do all the "classical" rogue stuff (Reflex save, initiative, stealth...). Also boosts your AC which is important since you won't be wearing heavy armor. 18 is absolutely fine here.

CON - Hit points and Fortitude. A failed FORT save sucks, but hit points is the problem here - you have a d8 as your hit die and are a frontliner. On level 3 you'll have 9 + 6 + 6 = 21 hit points. Let's look at a CR5 encounter (which is not unreasonable in PFS at that level) - a troll:
Melee bite +8 (1d8+5), 2 claws +8 (1d6+5)
The bite will on average deal about 10 points of damage, the claws 9. If the troll has a bit of a lucky roll (your AC on level 3 should be about 18-20 in my personal experience) and he hits you with 2 of those attacks you are almost dead.
Not let's say you picked up 14 CON:
11+8+8 = 27 hit points. The troll still hurts, but you won't be immediatly near death on a bad roll.

INT - Intelligence gives you one thing and one thing only: Skill points (okay, and 2 bonus languages on level 1). You are a human rogue, you'll get 9 skill ranks per level anyways. Sure, skills are important, but you usually won't be alone - are you sure you want to throw that many points into an ability that'll only boost your skills?
(I'm NOT saying skills are unimportant here, but you are opening yourself up at other points by throwing that many points into this ability!)

WIS - Not useful for much EXCEPT it boosts your Will save - which is a save you'll probably not want to lose. 14 is (in my opinion) fine.

CHA - You'll need it for skills. That's it. Bluffing, diplomacy and so on. 10 is more than fine here.

TL;DR: IMO the high INT is unneccessary and should be at least partly shifted towards CON.

4. Dodge and Mobility - Are you really expecting to move that much in and out of combat? You're a rogue, you have lots of DEX and could reasonably use acrobatics to avoid AoOs altogether if you really have to provoke them. Dodge is alright (though I'd pick it later down the line). Consider those alternatives:
* Toughness - 3 HP, +1 HP on every level after 3. So basically +1 HP per level and the first three as advance payment. Buffs your health a bit.
* Two Weapon Fighting - One of the "default" ways of building a rogue is grabbing to short swords or daggers and going to town. Reason: Your off-hand will lose damage because it'll only gain half your strength bonus (with is +0, so no difference there) BUT it will get the full sneak attack damage. Sweet deal if you ask me.

5. Equipment - Grab a club. It's free and deals bludgeoning damage. On low level DR 5/bludgeoning can be a problem.
Or (if you have a bit of spare money) a silver morningstar. It deals bludgeoning AND piercing damage and is silver - sweet deal if you ask me.

Silver Crusade

Sorry, I only now saw that you are planning on going the spring attack route. That throws my critique about mobility and dodge a bit out of the window.
BUT.
You won't do any damage with shooting. Trust me. You'll either have to sink feats into it (precise shot, for example) or you'll be a lousy shot. Not to mention you cannot sneak without quite a bit of effort.
Also, you have to hit 6th level (7th if you waste your combat trick before) before you can grab Spring Attack. Are you sure you want to spend 5 levels being a second hand archer?

I don't want to rain on your parade here. But "hide and shoot" will only get you so far if you don't invest into the feats. Which would leave you with none of those options:
1. Melee - Few hit points.
2. Ranged - No damage output because even IF you hit your damage won't be too hot.
3. Support - Well, you are no bard, so there won't be much supporting going on.

Sovereign Court

At level 1 I tend to sneak when possible shoot and move out of sight..again when possible.

Nothing hurts more than taking out someone on round 1, then having the room focus fire on you, as the biggest threat.


What level do you expect to play to?

If you think you will end before level 8, I suggest starting with a 17 Dexterity, then increase it at 4th level. The few extra points can be used for extra hit points, skill points, or whatever you like. If you start with all even-numbered ability scores, you will never feel the effect of that 4th level ability score point.

If you will be playing until 8th level or higher, then you should either start with an 18 Dexterity or start with two odd-numbered ability scores.

I love extra skill points as much as anyone (probably more though), but since you have 8 per level and +1 for being human, I suggest some Constitution over some Intelligence if you must choose between the two.

Finally, if allowed, you should definitely play the Unchained rogue instead of the CRB rogue. The 1st and 3rd level abilities will save your butt when you can't find anyone to flank with.


- I strongly recommend that you go Unchained rogue. See, the old Core version of Sneak Attack does not work if the target has any concealment. Being in dim lighting gives you 20% concealment. Therefore, unless you have Darkvision, you cannot Sneak Attack a guy in the dark.

- If you don't go Unchained, I advise you switch out Mobility for Weapon Finesse. You really, really need it, and being that guy who can't do anything in combat for a whole level isn't fun.

- If you stick with Human,be warned that scouting will be difficult. Darkvision is pretty much a given on most monsters so they won't often have lighting. This means you need a torch or Light spell to see at early levels, and that gives you away.

- Toughness isn't a bad idea. It gives you 3 HP, and you can "retrain" it out for free before you play at level 2.

- Iron Will is your friend.


If you're dead set on Spring Attack I'd suggest taking a look at the Scout archetype to apply sneak attack on a charge (4th) and when you move 10ft (8th.)

You probably want to grab Circling Mongoose eventually so you can flank with yourself.

The Exchange

Unfortunately with rogues Spring Attack is simply a poor way to dish out damage. It's a sweet concept to dart in and out of combat and just annoy the crap out of your opponents, but unfortunately that's what you become, and annoyance and little more. By going spring attack you are investing 3 feats for the ability to attack 1 time per round.

With weapon finesse and two weapon fighting you are attacking twice a round with a higher attack bonus.

I would make the following suggestions:
1:Buy Pathfinder Unchained (Book or PDF, doesn't matter) and use the Unchained Rogue, it is superior in almost every aspect.

2: I would consider putting that 14 Wis into Con. I think you're trying to pump up perception/will save (which isn't bad) but a rogue is often going places they shouldn't be, and getting things pissed off at them. Will saves don't often kill you, they negate you. running out of HP because you got into a flank, pissed off the person you flanked and then got flanked yourself will get you killed. Additionally Fort saves can kill you too, or severely weaken you. With 14 Con you're pumping the Fort Save and getting an extra 2 HP/level

3:Use Two Weapon Fighting, if you want to get Dodge/Mobility those a great to have for times when you fail a tumble check. Eventually if you're really wanting to try it you can take Spring attack after a few levels by which time you will have enough prestige to retrain it to something else if you're not liking/using it often.

4: Use the same weapon type in each hand. I know it's tempting to use a Rapier primary and a shortsword or something else secondary to max the damage dice on that main hand. However as you get feats that increase your ability to use a weapon you're having to get twice as many feats, or only effecting half of your weapons. 1d8 instead of 1d6 is not worth the extra feat investment or lack of bonuses when your real damage is the xd6 that you're adding on every sneak attack!

5: Ultimate Combat has some nice options for Melee characters in general, it's worth getting as well. It also adds the Gladius as a weapon option. The Gladius counts as a short sword for all abilities and feats, so you already have proficiency in it. It is also a slashing or piercing weapon, so it helps you gain two damage types with your normal weapons (always a good bonus to have!)

6: Don't forget your skills. Focusing on combat is fun, but many players do that already and PFS is also a very skill/roleplay based game. Rogues get some really good skills and plenty of points to spend. Use them! Max your Perception, Disable Device, Acrobatics, and UMD. After those main skills, use some of your points to spread around, Over 5-6 levels try to put a point in every knowledge skill. You may not make any DC 25+ checks, but one more person that can Identify Creature x can be the difference in a TPK (Total Party Kill) and knowing all the Melee need to be hitting it with their blunt weapons, thus killing it easily in 2 rounds!
(IF you want to be a scout/stealth based character you can max stealth too, just remember like was mentioned previously, you will encounter a lot of dark areas with creatures that have darkvision. even if you could sneak up on them, carrying a torch means they will spot you a mile away, A spotted scout is a dead scout!

7: ASK FOR HELP! And by that I don't mean on the forums, sure it's good that you're looking for other players advise and help here. But I mean in game, Rogues are not a Wis based Class, even if you don't take my advise in #2 and keep 14 Wis there are going to be other people out there with higher perception skills, ask them to help when looking for traps.

8: Take 10 when disabling a trap for the first time, maybe you will disable it, maybe you won't, What you should rarely do is set it off (unless you're playing up, like a lvl 1-2 in a sub-tier 4-5 session) But if taking 10 sets off the trap that means you would have needed a minimum of 15 to succeed (probably higher) so odds are you were going to set the trap off before you disabled it anyway. Assuming taking 10 doesn't set the trap off or disable it. you can then start rolling and hopefully disable the trap before setting it off.

9: At level 2 take trap spotter as your rogue talent. I know there are nice shiny combat abilities out there, but Rogues are still the primary trapper class. Very little can surprise a party quite like walking through a random room only to find a trap smack in the middle with nothing to really identify that you should probably check for traps there. While Trap Spotter isn't a guarantee, it is a chance.

10: Try not to Meta-Game. Some just take 10 or take 20 when searching where they think is a trap. While these are both valid and safer than rolling and failing I like to still let the dice have a place in the game. Rogues are easier to meta-game than most characters. "I'm checking for traps" *Roll Nat 1* "I'm checking for traps again"... Some rogues do this, some people hate it, some people don't care. Allow yourself to fail at spotting a trap and use it as a learning point for the character. After you fail at spotting one when you were specifically looking for it start rolling 3d20 and take the highest. This symbolizes your experience and now you always look from a few different angles and inspect it closely. When you do this you will almost always beat a 'take 10' by a significant amount (I tend to average 15-18 on at least 1 of the 3) and it takes less Game Time (3 rounds, or 18 seconds) than the 10-20 rounds or 1-2 minutes that it takes for a take 10 or take 20. Most of the time a couple minutes don't mean very much. But occasionally someone will have a minutes/level spell going that a GM is tracking time and you can eat up the final portion of their spell while you're taking 20.

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