|
| 18 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Concerning the Kineticist powers of telekinesis.
Basic telekinesis refers to "mage hand", which would exclude '"attended objects" from being moved. All clear here, no problems.
Now, the second level wild talent "telekinetic haul" vastly increases the weight of moved objects, going from 5lbs per 2 levels to 100 or 1000 lbs per level (without or with taking burn). In my opinion, merely this change of scale needs a new definition of "attended object". Let me explain.
Where to draw the line?
A worn set of clothing is attended, no argument there.
A plank upon which someone stands? Is that attended? maybe...
What about a ship with a single person on it?
Or a 4500 lbs rock with a 10 lbs pixie on it?
A dead tree with a fox sleeping inside? And what if it wakes up?
And if foxes count, what about insects? Can we, in fact, move anything at all?
Secondary: concerning the first level wild talent: telekinetic finesse: Can we use sleight of hand to steal something off a person using telekinesis? It seems to be RAI, but mage hand's description prevents us.
Please FAQ this. I would really like an official ruling on this.
Wait a second, once you're lifting it, you are exerting forces on it. This means, it is an attended object, and not a valid target. Hence, moving anything is impossible.
That's just proof that spells only check the "target" when initially cast, and the target doesn't need to remain "valid" after that point, unless specified otherwise. Which is why you can cast the TK Haul on an unattended chair and then sit on the chair and the spell keeps going.
I'm pretty sure normal insects (as opposed to magical/giant ones) are like normal plants in being objects, not creatures, hence incapable of attending anything. In fact they're valid targets themselves, despite being alive.
I've been DMing for a telekineticist for a while now, here are my interpretations of this ability and its related rules.
I interpret "attended object" to be "an object who's movement and direction a creature has control over." So, examples:
A sword in hand. Attended.
A boulder pushed down a hill. Not attended.
A cart, with you in the driver seat. Attended.
A cart, no driver, you in the back. Not attended.
Clothing worn. Attended.
An object manipulated via mage hand. Attended.
My game has had several inventive uses of TK haul. I tend to rule as follows with it:
As long as the object is unattended, creatures can ride the object. Frequently saw a rowboat used to carry PCs over dangerous terrain.
The sum weight of object and creature is tallied for TK haul purposes. Mostly a balance factor. Great fun when other creatures jump on board.
Regarding TK Finesse, yes, you can sleight of hand with it. Mage Hand is the general rule that Basic Telekineses references but also specifically subverts, which the TK Finesse talent further modifies. Specific trumps general, and so on. To internally justify it at our table, we decided that an being unaware of a sleight of hand attempt meant the object in question was "unattended" just enough to make the attempt possible. We felt this was better than simply adding that the ability could affect attended objects.
While I have resolved these issues at my own table, I do agree the rules as they stand could use a little clarification. FAQd.
I honestly feel like this is the sort of thing that is probably best to leave up to GM discretion. The "unattended" rider on Mage Hand is likely to prevent people from making trip and disarm attempts at range with a cantrip (Telekineticists get a 4th level wild talent for this.)
Personally I adjudicate "attended" via "an intelligent being is aware of this, would prefer it not happen, and is in a position to do something about it." You can use TK finesse to steal someone's component pouch if they're not aware of you, someone else being aware of you doing this doesn't stop this, but if they notice you and grab their pouch then you can no longer TK it.
If the PCs are in a rowboat and the kineticist wants to levitate it, I would say you can do so provided the PCs don't try to stop it. If the antagonists are trying to escape in a rowboat, the kineticist probably cannot grab it to keep them from getting away. You can explain the fiction via "someone attempting to keep control of the object severs the strands of aether you have wrapped the object in.
Maybe deserving of a second thread, but there is also a question of how small an object can be and still be considered an object. Can you use motes of dust for your TK blast?
Maybe deserving of a second thread, but there is also a question of how small an object can be and still be considered an object. Can you use motes of dust for your TK blast?
It seems that the standard should be "if you pick up and handle a thing specifically" (and not just as part of a handful of stuff) it counts as an object. So a mote of dust probably not since you could not grab one mote of dust and move it from your left hand to your right, but you could use a pebble, a leaf, a clump of mud, a strand of your own hair, a copper piece you cut into quarters, etc.
A strand of hair would make a fun kinetic whip.
|
|
PossibleCabbage,
I agree that the GM should handle this, but whenever I try to discuss stuff like this, people's opinions come around to several different interpretations of the rules. Me and my home group are perfectly able to resolve this in consensus, but when even RAW results in different interpretations, I think a general FAQ is called for.
I personally agree with most of what The Black Bard says, but I can also very much find ways around his ruling. I can't grab the row-boat? Fine, I'll grab the water beneath, or maybe a big stone from the bedrock... It would be nice to have a clear ruling.
My ruling would be: anything that's not worn, held or wielded. And even then, I would see the loosely flying kite to which someone is holding the other rope end as a fair target. After all, that person is holding the rope to control the kite, and not holding the kite itself. Now, I know many people would disagree with this, which is precisely why a FAQ ruling would help, here :)
Here's a real mind-blower:
Is an arrow, once fired from a bow, considered "attended?" Think about it for a moment. Then realize what it means. Then never worry about archers again.
It shouldn't work. No question there. But think about it. It does. (Unless it doesn't. Then could somebody point me in the direction of the right FAQ or rule that I missed?)
It's not a great defense against archery, unless you are talking about a single archer at low level. You have to ready an action and could only stop one arrow per round. It'd be a lot better to use the scoop option of TK to grab the arrows out of their quiver.
Still, for the low levels, it's fairly effective. The great thing is that it isn't limited to just arrows. Sure, guns target touch AC, but with a readied action, your cantrip is completely negating the enemy's gunslinger.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you're willing to spend the burn, you can ready an action to move something large enough to create total cover right as they are making their attack.
Here's a real mind-blower:
Is an arrow, once fired from a bow, considered "attended?" Think about it for a moment. Then realize what it means. Then never worry about archers again.
It shouldn't work. No question there. But think about it. It does. (Unless it doesn't. Then could somebody point me in the direction of the right FAQ or rule that I missed?)
I was more thinking about boulders thrown from giants and siege craft, would it require a readied action to catch ?
I just realized in my post I never once made clear entirely my line of thinking. You absolutely could (with a readied action, by RAW) catch siege weapons mid-flight with a telekineticist with Telekinetic Haul, but my first thought was slightly smaller-scale: Mage Hand. One cantrip, one readied action, and one fewer projectile your party has to deal with. But yeah, telekineticists could totally have pseudo-rock catching.
Maybe the biggest problem with catching something with mage hand is that nothing says the object stops when the spell is cast on it, plus it takes a move action to move the object. So, as a readied action you put mage hand on the arrow and then you just get hit with an arrow that has mage hand cast on it.
If the telekineticist had Telekinetic Maneuvers, could he use the bull rush combat maneuver to stop a projectile in motion?