Lob Shot feat --- How the heck...?

[Geramies]

So this feat, in Ranged Tactics Toolbox, says the following.

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Benefits: While making a ranged attack, you can ignore any cover bonuses to AC, including total cover, unless the target also has cover from above, such as a roof or forest canopy. When using this feat, treat your target as if it were one range increment farther away. You can't use this feat unless you have headroom equal to at least half the attack's range.
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The idea is you're lobbing something overhead for it to land atop a target on the other side of whatever is protecting them.

I can understand thrown weapons and arrows.

But I can't wrap my head on how crossbow bolts or firearm bullets can accomplish this exactly? Especially a descending bullet, it won't pack the same kind of punch at all.

I feel like RAI, this feat was only meant for thrown weapons and arrows.

Has there been any confirmation on this feat?

[Tyinyk]

I have a player who want to use this with a shotgun. I consider myself a lenient GM, but that made even me go, "Wait, what?"

RAW, I believe it works on anything, RAI, I think you're right. I'd ask your DM, and if you're the DM, I'd ask any player wanting to use it with their gun/crossbow to explain how they're doing it.

[VRMH]

Please don't inflict realism on your players, or on the game. Things just work, because the rules say so. Unless you have a good explanation for Fireballs too...

[Bob Bob Bob]

From what I remember of parabolic trajectories in physics problems (no friction), the initial vertical speed is equal to the final vertical speed (and the horizontal speed never changes). So crossbow bolts and guns don't actually lose any speed (in ideal frictionless situations).

If they were going to make projectile weapons slow down (from friction) they'd have to have damage drop at farther range increments, but that's not a thing. The only nod to damage dropoff is firearms only targeting touch AC in the first range increment, but that's literally impossible to use with this feat (as they're "one range increment farther away"). There's some weirdness with tech weapons and advanced firearms, but those are basically never assumed.

So, short answer, I'm pretty sure it's working exactly as intended. It follows the same physics as the rest of the game.

[MrCharisma]

Yeah equal & opposite reactions & all that, it should work.

If you really want to keep it realistic (coz martials can't have nice things it breaks verisimilitude) you could just rule that crossbows/firearms can only use this outside (no roof) where there's enough room for a really high arc?

Or you could just use the power of narrative to assume they ricochet the shot if it's indoors.

Or you could restrict it to only throwing weapons (so there's at least 1 thing that throwing builds do better than other builds)?

[Revolver Ocelot]

This is the greatest handgun ever made....

I understand the bullets, you see.

I make them go where I want.

[Vidmaster7]

the ricochet shot is not a bad way to fluff it. I remember a DM trying to make a similar argument for cleave for blunt weapons. I described it has the impact knocking them around or against each other. so a little fluff will go a long way.

[Snowlilly]

/shrug

Most things with cover also have concealment.

[Rub-Eta]

Tyinyk wrote:

I have a player who want to use this with a shotgun.

That's amazing. I feel like this should be the final blow to the BBEG in the ordeal of the worst/best/most 80's action movie ever.

[Kazaan]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

There's some weirdness with tech weapons and advanced firearms, but those are basically never assumed.

So, short answer, I'm pretty sure it's working exactly as intended. It follows the same physics as the rest of the game.

Ok, now I'm imagining a lobbing shot using a laser gun.

[Blackwaltzomega]

Geramies wrote:

So this feat, in Ranged Tactics Toolbox, says the following.

---------------------------
Benefits: While making a ranged attack, you can ignore any cover bonuses to AC, including total cover, unless the target also has cover from above, such as a roof or forest canopy. When using this feat, treat your target as if it were one range increment farther away. You can't use this feat unless you have headroom equal to at least half the attack's range.
---------------------------

The idea is you're lobbing something overhead for it to land atop a target on the other side of whatever is protecting them.

I can understand thrown weapons and arrows.

But I can't wrap my head on how crossbow bolts or firearm bullets can accomplish this exactly? Especially a descending bullet, it won't pack the same kind of punch at all.

I feel like RAI, this feat was only meant for thrown weapons and arrows.

Has there been any confirmation on this feat?

You go down that path and trouble awaits for you. Master swordsmen in Pathfinder can't use many of the actual real-life blade techniques from european martial arts very well as it is.

Refluff the lob shot as a deflection or whatever. Remember there is no frame of reference in the real world for how good a shot a decently-leveled ranged character is supposed to be. They're SUPPOSED to do s$$@ we can't in real life.

[EvilMinion]

Did you not see Wanted (the movie)? Bend that bullet!

If Angie can do it, so can you!

[deusvult]

Geramies wrote:

As odd as it is...I guess RAW it's allowed.

I wish the designers were more aware of what's available in Pathfinder before wording their feats so loosely.

They're worded the way they are because Rule Zero is assumed to be in effect. No need to qualify how feats work in every context because there's a GM there to cover "you can't do X under Y conditions."