I think I had read somewhere in the rules about when creatures increase or decrease size in battle but cant find it, but I'm specifically searching for what determines which squares in the battlefield the creature will occupy when becoming smaller or larger. Because becoming small or large many times during a battle can be confusing to check in which square he/she should be. If anyone knows anything about this, please point me in the right direction.
It isn't spelt out as far as I know, but I can't think of a better way than the controller of the effect decides which squares the player grows into, or the specific square they shrink down into. Anything else I ca think of strikes me as unfair or plain messy.
So there is nothing that determines where the player can land?
For Example
Lets say a Large creature takes up 4 squares which are numbers 1 to 4.
Diagram
12
34
So it turn Medium size. How do I know where to stand? on position 1, 2, 3 or 4? Or randomly? This is a bit messy when it done before a movement because the person could Shrink towards the direction that makes him closer to where he wants to move and then move his whole speed rate.
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This is a bit messy when it done before a movement because the person could Shrink towards the direction that makes him closer to where he wants to move and then move his whole speed rate.
Going from Large to Medium is not that messy, really. The Large creature shrinking to Medium wouldn't gain an extra step by doing so. Let's say they wanted to move towards X, 30 feet away (assume 30 ft. move speed).
DIAGRAM
12......X
34
If they stay Large, they can just do the move. If they shrink to Medium in square 2 or 4, they can still do it. Only if they shrink to 1 or 3 would they be unable to complete the move. But in that case, you're penalizing them for changing size, instead of leaving the situation otherwise the same.
A Medium creature going to Large could gain 5 feet.
DIAGRAM
1.......X (35 feet away)
If they embiggen thusly:
12......X (now 30 feet away)
34
five feet towards X, then yes, they would be able to complete the move, having gained a free 5 feet. If they embiggened backwards instead, they would stay 35 feet away from X. However, they might be 5 feet closer to something the other direction. Embiggening is just going to give them 5 feet in three directions.
How big a deal this is really depends on the GM and players. I've never found it important enough to figure out a complicated way of ensuring no one gets an extra 5 feet of movement from enlarge person.
All that said, I can't find a specific rule that dictates which choice to make. I've always (as a GM and player) gone with ckdragon's interpretation of "caster's choice" for simplicity.
I guess it does matters when there are halls and doors 5 ft wide. WHich means a Large creature cant fit.
If someone closes on you (hopefully provoking) then you can shrink so you're still 5' away (out of reach), stab them and take a move action to leave without provoking, or take a full attack and still 5' farther away so they need to provoke again to get to you.
I've always played it that the Medium embiggened character provokes for deembiggening away from someone. Argued thusly:
INCREDIBLY FANCY DIAGRAM
12E
34
If the embiggened Medium character shrinks down to squares 1 or 3, (arguably and subject to variance) they pass through threatened squares 2 and 4. That would provoke from E.
Admittedly, this is an interpretation and the opposite (deembiggening from a threatened square to an unthreatened one is not movement that provokes) is also cromulent.
If someone closes on you (hopefully provoking) then you can shrink so you're still 5' away (out of reach), stab them and take a move action to leave without provoking, or take a full attack and still 5' farther away so they need to provoke again to get to you.I've always played it that the Medium embiggened character provokes for deembiggening away from someone. Argued thusly:
INCREDIBLY FANCY DIAGRAM
12E
34If the embiggened Medium character shrinks down to squares 1 or 3, (arguably and subject to variance) they pass through threatened squares 2 and 4. That would provoke from E.
Admittedly, this is an interpretation and the opposite (deembiggening from a threatened square to an unthreatened one is not movement that provokes) is also cromulent.
Yikes. Im not sure if that would provoke an attack of opportunity but damn sounds a bit nasty if it were true or possible.
AoO:
I don't think shrinking or growing causes AoO, since neither is movement.
Which square(s):
I think it is dealer's choice also.
Space:
I guess it does matters when there are halls and doors 5 ft wide. WHich means a Large creature cant fit.
As to limited space, you can grow from medium to large in a 5' wide hall. Doing so causes you to be squeezing.
When a Large creature (which normally takes up 4 squares) squeezes into a space that's 1 square wide, the creature's miniature figure occupies 2 squares, centered on the line between the 2 squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.
To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space's width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can't attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
/cevah
+1 to Cevah (was gonna post that, myself). squeezing is perfectly fine, and there's rules for it. so it's not so much of a big deal, which is why you can't find much info on it. my group as well just houserules casters choice for sizing up and down, except you can't size up anywhere you wouldnt be able to move (if one of the 4 squares are occupied by an ally, for example)