Looking through the Path of War Expanded the classes when describing the use of a disciple's initiator stat tend to say things like, "Your Initiator stat" or something to that effect instead of saying the previous listed primary stat for that class, it made me think there was some way to change what each classes primary stat focus was so im asking perhaps its only with strikes or something but is there away to alter how strikes work in terms of using a different ability score than the one listed with the class?
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It's so they can introduce archetypes or feats that change it later. Basically leaving their options open. I think there's a few in the new book that change the initiator stat? Maybe a prestige class?
Which book would that be, Path of War Expanded? I have that one.
This needs to go in the Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Advice and Rules Questions forum. I've flagged the post to be moved there.
Thanks for the assist.
if you gained access to a discipline through the Martial Training feats, then you will have a non-standard initiating stat.
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if you gained access to a discipline through the Martial Training feats, then you will have a non-standard initiating stat.
Also archtypes for core classes that grant initiator abilities. And multiclassing (which is much more effective as you gain 1/2 of other class levels). Lastly, school/discipline swapping.
The long answer is, they learned from Paizo's mistakes and didn't publish abilities with hard coded stat dependencies. You can search the forums for posts about spells that state they use the "normal" classes attribute despite the caster's class using a different attribute. There is an FAQ stating that they don't get to use their class attribute making the spell far worse (as they typically don't have that stat) despite it being a "class spell".
PoW's wording prevents possible issues like that by just stating to use the class that grants the ability's stated attribute. You can have multiple initiator attributes via multiclassing, just like you can have multiple casting stats (wizard/cleric multiclassing for example).
@OP: There are numerous reasons to word it like that and they have nothing at all to do with "changing the initiator attribute".
Can you be a little more elaborate im not exactly sure im following. I have a succubus character that im making and I'd like to use Crimson Countess archetype of Harbinger but only if I can use my Charisma Modifier as her initiator stat as well as class feature stat.
if you gained access to a discipline through the Martial Training feats, then you will have a non-standard initiating stat.
But wouldn't that only apply to the maneuvers i gained from that feat? It wouldn't allow me to use the associated stat with all my maneuvers from another source would it. The feat says you'd keep track of that maneuver and its readied status separately
if you gained access to a discipline through the Martial Training feats, then you will have a non-standard initiating stat.But wouldn't that only apply to the maneuvers i gained from that feat? It wouldn't allow me to use the associated stat with all my maneuvers from another source would it. The feat says you'd keep track of that maneuver and its readied status separately
true, was just worth mentioning, I thought.
Can you be a little more elaborate im not exactly sure im following. I have a succubus character that im making and I'd like to use Crimson Countess archetype of Harbinger but only if I can use my Charisma Modifier as her initiator stat as well as class feature stat.
No. So far, there is no way to change the initiator stat like that. Other people have been bugging DSP to make a Charisma using archetype for harbinger since the class was in playtest, but no luck. Ask your DM if you can homebrew that change.
The wording of "Your initiator stat" exists because, for example, there are spells that are on both the sorcerer and wizard lists, but say "add yor Charisma modifier", making them useless for wizards, and spells that use "add your Intelligence modifier", making them useless for sorcerers. Same thing happens with clerics and oracles. With "Your initiator stat" a Int using harbinger and a Cha using warlord can both use Sleeping Goddess maneuvers if they want. Without that wording, Sleeping Goddess would probably reference Wis and only be usable by warders and mystics.
Can you be a little more elaborate im not exactly sure im following. I have a succubus character that im making and I'd like to use Crimson Countess archetype of Harbinger but only if I can use my Charisma Modifier as her initiator stat as well as class feature stat.No. So far, there is no way to change the initiator stat like that. Other people have been bugging DSP to make a Charisma using archetype for harbinger since the class was in playtest, but no luck. Ask your DM if you can homebrew that change.
The wording of "Your initiator stat" exists because, for example, there are spells that are on both the sorcerer and wizard lists, but say "add yor Charisma modifier", making them useless for wizards, and spells that use "add your Intelligence modifier", making them useless for sorcerers. Same thing happens with clerics and oracles. With "Your initiator stat" a Int using harbinger and a Cha using warlord can both use Sleeping Goddess maneuvers if they want. Without that wording, Sleeping Goddess would probably reference Wis and only be usable by warders and mystics.
Okay I see.
Can you be a little more elaborate im not exactly sure im following. I have a succubus character that im making and I'd like to use Crimson Countess archetype of Harbinger but only if I can use my Charisma Modifier as her initiator stat as well as class feature stat.
Something like that would be something to ask your GM.
For pure RAW the options are Ordained Defender for Warder changing Int to Wis and Vigilante for Stalker changing Wis to Int,
Yup,as others said, it's mostly to keep themselves open if they want to make options to change stats in the future. There's nothing right now that freely allows you to switch Stat dependencies
...I mean, there's one, IIRC. In the April's fool document there's the Daring Hero prestige class that switches all of your initiating and class features to work on Cha, but out of the options in the book it's the least balanced one (if at all).
Yup,as others said, it's mostly to keep themselves open if they want to make options to change stats in the future. There's nothing right now that freely allows you to switch Stat dependencies
...I mean, there's one, IIRC. In the April's fool document there's the Daring Hero prestige class that switches all of your initiating and class features to work on Cha, but out of the options in the book it's the least balanced one (if at all).
is that document still floating around?
is that document still floating around?Yup,as others said, it's mostly to keep themselves open if they want to make options to change stats in the future. There's nothing right now that freely allows you to switch Stat dependencies
...I mean, there's one, IIRC. In the April's fool document there's the Daring Hero prestige class that switches all of your initiating and class features to work on Cha, but out of the options in the book it's the least balanced one (if at all).
Yep. Pay what you want.