So last night my DM stopped me when I was going to trample around as a Warcat on the grounds that if I chose my movement other than a straight line it wouldn't be a trample because a trample had to be a charge.
I read this:
d20pfsrd listing wrote:
Trample (Ex)
As a full-round action, a creature with the trample ability can attempt to overrun any creature that is at least one size category Smaller than itself. This works just like the overrun combat maneuver, but the trampling creature does not need to make a check, it merely has to move over opponents in its path. Targets of a trample take an amount of damage equal to the trampling creature’s slam damage + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a –4 penalty. If targets forgo an attack of opportunity, they can attempt to avoid the trampling creature and receive a Reflex save to take half damage. The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature.
So I click the related link for overrun because it "works just like" it:
d20pfsrd listing wrote:
Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target's space. If your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target's space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.
I view this that I can choose to charge as part of it in a straight line for double movement OR I can move my normal distance and that is my full-round action trample as I choose my path.
Am I mistaken in thinking I have the ability to decide a movement path in this or do I HAVE to charge?
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I think you're reading it right, it's either double distance in a straight line (as part of a charge) or single distance in any direction (move + standard).
Though Overrun is one of the least-understood maneuvers out there.
Ascalaphus wrote: I think you're reading it right, it's either double distance in a straight line (as part of a charge) or single distance in any direction (move + standard).
Though Overrun is one of the least-understood maneuvers out there.
Well I try to cover these things with my DM prior but he generally passes them off till they happen mid-combat. I absolutely hate stopping a DM and stopping everyone during combat but he didn't put it forward as a house rule he put it forward as he had previous experience where he had to charge.
The rules text could certainly be clearer. My own interpretation is that you can't charge as part of a trample—you're using a full-round action to trample, so all you're doing is trampling, that's it (using only the movement part of overrun). Since it specifies a full-round action for trample, I think that overrides the "action" part of the overrun rules. From a RAI perspective, trampling and then getting an attack (or potentially a full attack via pounce) is unbalanced (too good), but I admit I'm guessing at that to a degree.
But, I think you can double move while trampling, in any direction, since overrun says "...during your move..." I know I said above that trample overrides the "action" part of overrun, but there's not much else to go by (repeat, text could be clearer). The double move is supported by this faq.
I certainly don't think you HAVE to charge. First, because I don't think you CAN charge. Second, if you HAD to charge, the trample text wouldn't say, "...no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature."
Look at the last line of Trample: " A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature."
This means you are expected to be able to run something over multiple times (but only deal damage once), which you can't do if you are only moving in straight lines.
Also Ignotus, you can use it as part of a charge. The tradeoff for not having to make checks is that even if you don't use it as part of a charge it takes a full round action to use.
Overrun is highly misunderstood and was promised errata to clarify in 2009. It hasn't appeared.
So whether or not you can Charge and Overrun in addition to the melee attack at the end of the charge or if the Overrun replaces the attack at the end.
James Risner wrote: Overrun is highly misunderstood and was promised errata to clarify in 2009. It hasn't appeared.
So whether or not you can Charge and Overrun in addition to the melee attack at the end of the charge or if the Overrun replaces the attack at the end.
I just wanted a clarification that I could move (as in choose a path) as part of the full round action (trample) nothing about extra attacks or anything else.
No one knows. And these are just examples from threads I've posted in (and only the top three results). It doesn't even touch threads I haven't posted in that pose the same questions.
So far as I am aware, this is the only clarification we have on how Trample works (which is to say, there isn't much clarification at all).
FAQ wrote: Trample: The Trample Universal Monster Rule indicates that the monster is moving around as part of the trample, but it never says how far it can move. How far can a trampling creature move?
A trampling creature can move up to twice its land speed as part of the trample.
In answer to the OP. That 'OR' is pretty telling. There is nothing indicating you must charge. It is an option.
That part of trample/overrun at least is about as clear as a rule can get.
Ridiculon wrote: Look at the last line of Trample: " A trampling creature can only deal trampling damage to each target once per round, no matter how many times its movement takes it over a target creature."
This means you are expected to be able to run something over multiple times (but only deal damage once), which you can't do if you are only moving in straight lines.
Also Ignotus, you can use it as part of a charge. The tradeoff for not having to make checks is that even if you don't use it as part of a charge it takes a full round action to use.
I actually read that as a creature taking up multiple squares only doing and only taking damage once. So a straight line is still very viable.
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