Strange Aeons and Sanity

[S1nfulFuzzball]

so I'm starting a game on the Strange Aeons AP and I'm thinking of implementing the sanity rules introduced in Horror Adventures for a bit of extra flavor. The corruption rule may be used as well. My question is has anybody else done this and does it tip the scale in favor of the player or GM?

[Piccolo]

I used the Sanity system for Carrion Crown's Wake of the Watcher. The game effect was that players immediately bought Iron Will and spent gold on upping their Cloaks of Resistance. I suspect that your players will do the same thing to avoid insanity/corruption.

[Varun Creed]

I'm thinking of houseruling (when I use the system) any Sanity Save to be D20+1/2HD, instead of based on Will/Wis/Int for exactly that reason..

[FatR]

If you aren't using the sanity system for Pathfinder in general there is no reason whatsoever to use it for Strange Aeons.

[wraithstrike]

I feel like adventures already see enough crazy things that nothing in this adventure will matter.

The only way I could justify using it would be if certain creatures had some type of aura about them that could affect someone's sanity, but if I do that for this game I would have to do it for every game these creatures were in since my gameworld is consistent, and it does not change much from one AP to the next.

PS: I see no way adding this in will help the players.

[Thefuzzy1]

I'm using the horror adventures sanity rules with my Aeons game, it fits the flavor really well but since the checks are based on a lot of first time senarios it is tougher in early lvs. Without spoilers in the first few sections of starting book 1 there were two checks and I had one player fail and take 5 sanity damage and gain the minor madness phobia and another after passing his save still took 1 sanity damage and gain the minor madness paranoia. So far my players are having fun and like the added system but it does require to give the players more downtime as curing a madness can take a while.

[Killer_GM]

I may be GM'ing this campaign quite soon, and if I am, I'm probably going to use the actual rules for sanity from the actual Call of Cthulhu game system itself. If that equates to my players characters going insane in spectacular fashion, then all the better. This is supposed to be Pathfinder meets Call of Cthulhu. This campaign shouldn't be for the weak of heart.

[The Mad Comrade]

Killer_GM wrote:

I may be GM'ing this campaign quite soon, and if I am, I'm probably going to use the actual rules for sanity from the actual Call of Cthulhu game system itself. If that equates to my players characters going insane in spectacular fashion, then all the better. This is supposed to be Pathfinder meets Call of Cthulhu. This campaign shouldn't be for the weak of heart.

To adjudicate the CoC Sanity system via PF would require major adjustments as the former is loosely based on "real world minds", not the significantly more robust minds of murder hobos adventurers.

Best to use the Horror rules ... carefully.

[Killer_GM]

Good to know. I'll talk to you about this topic in the weeks to come. Please tell me you're planning to treat your current group to this AP, and doing a CJ on it...

[Shaun Hocking]

I'm beginning to plan my Strange Aeons campaign and I'm considering the Sanity System from Horror Adventures but it looks a little harsh. I'd be keen to hear your experiences if you've used the Sanity rules for this (or any other) AP.

[negative_energy]

Just to chime in, I am NOT using any sanity rules but every PC has been driven insane at least once in this campaign anyway.

[Shaun Hocking]

negative_energy wrote:

Just to chime in, I am NOT using any sanity rules but every PC has been driven insane at least once in this campaign anyway.

That's what I figured. It's more madness-heavy than any other AP anyway, so I might go with the standard rules after all since there's nothing that ruins a player's enjoyment like losing control. It's pretty difficult to recover from madness too, and with the 'chase' aspect of this AP I don't envision any opportunities to spend weeks on end resting.

[Spastic Puma]

My least favorite aspect is when players start accumulating a great deal of them. A couple of my players had 3-4 lesser madnesses and trying to roleplay all of them is just impossible. (Not to mention keeping track of all the negatives and dormant effects).

[wertyou2]

I've been using Sanity from Horror Adventures, generally only making them roll in response to Mythos stuff. So far this has been stuff like the Yellow Sign, Star Vampires, and Byakhees. I've also done it for things that aren't directly from the Mythos, like Tatterman and Nemeira. Doing this presents the unique problem of making Bokrug sound like a sanity-shattering horror despite being a giant iguana.

A fair amount of madnesses have begun to pile up, mostly on the Eidolon who has a threshold of 1 (I might remove it from the Sanity system because it requires Summoner to RP both his madnesses and not the Eidolons madness), and on the PC who got hit with a Bestow Curse that inflicted a -8 penalty on saves against Sanity. The latter PC died of Star Vampire though, so his 4 madnesses mean nothing now.

We haven't really had a chance to see how RPing the madnesses goes, so I can't give much on that. I'm worried about if/when greater madnesses start popping up, as those are a good bit nastier than the lesser madnesses. I've been thinking about bringing in the reality checks from Call of Cthulhu 7e, at least for the hallucination madness.

[SilentInfinity]

Thanks for all the insight here everyone. I'm trying to decide how much I want to use the Fear, Sanity, and Madness rules from Horror Adventures. I'm definitely going to use the Corruption and maybe make some additional corruptions too, which I'll certainly post.

I need to reread through but what sort of sanity/madness checks/effects exist? Insanity spells? I know at the beginning of Thrushmoor it calls out they have their own system since Horror was in processing while the path was being written.

[RakeleerRR]

We decided to use the expanded fear rules and the sanity rules from HA.

So far, we've only racked up one madness (the Slayer that thinks he can fly) and I really like how it worked out in Briarstone. At first I thought it was going to be a paperwork nightmare, but really our goal is not recreate CoC in Pathfinder. It highlights very well that, even for the strange world of Golarion, there are things that are unknowable and irrational afoot.

I was heavy handed at first - through waking up in the basement to their first brushes with haunts, dopplegangers and hideous piles of corpses, but then eased off - requiring sanity checks for sleeping outside of the Chapel, falling into the Oneirogen's fog and other Tatterman-related horror.

Interested to see how it works out in book 2. I think as long as you adjust for 'Hey, I grew up in Golarion, what sanity anyway' and sprinkle it like smokey paprika it serves to add to the flavor of the AP and give the DM another tension lever to fiddle with.

[Davor Firetusk]

Any updated ideas? I finished book 1 not using the sanity system, but a player comment made me start to consider it. During our first session of book 2 the PCs captured and interrogated a certain druid a move I did not expect. She 'cracked' under questioning and happily gave up the name of her Lord and master. This kind of taunting and given his overall approach it seemed like the time to implement a sanity check. One of the characters even made a knowledge check to identify the name, so I made the percentile roll to see if his dreams were going to be targeted by the Great Old One in question.

I'm fairly comfortable with this usage, but looking over the rules again make me inclined to only implement the sanity rolls sparingly.

[gustavo iglesias]

I'm in book 5, and in hindsight, I would use sanity. Maybe a modified system, or whatever, but certainly something.

Necronomicon's Wisdom draining stuff is cool, but can be healed with a simple restoration spell. Sanity is somehow more persistent as damage, and thus risking your own sanity to read the Necronomicon is actually a risk.

Same goes with Neruzavin itself. All that "this city has impossible geometry" is cool, but a real tangible effect would make the point better.

[Hubaris]

I was honestly a little disappointed at the Necronomicon writeup when I read it, did you use it as written or did you add anything new or flashy to it? It seems to be a little too basic for a book of ultimate eldritch evil.

This is probably off topic but you're here now.

[Davor Firetusk]

I was wondering if people thought it would be worth keeping the sanity damage totals secret? Or something else to add some mystery and uncertainty? It feels like if you go full on with the system and checks it will just overwhelm the players quickly because there are not a lot of rest opportunities, but I'm cutting down on the frequency of the checks just really big stuff.

[gustavo iglesias]

Hubaris wrote:

I was honestly a little disappointed at the Necronomicon writeup when I read it, did you use it as written or did you add anything new or flashy to it? It seems to be a little too basic for a book of ultimate eldritch evil.

This is probably off topic but you're here now.

Not yet. The PC won't have it until 2 weeks from now. But I plan to, yes

[The Mad Comrade]

The DC 35 Will save vs Wis drain is brutally nasty. For a group not using Sanity that alone should drive home - however temporary the drain may be - just how high-end reading this version of the Necronomicon is.

It would be out-of-genre to have something so devastating not have some lingering effects.... and there are plenty one can come up with. If the group is blase about it ... step it up a notch and have the drain non-recoverable until after the Necronomicon has been perused in full.

[gustavo iglesias]

Dc 35 wis drain means 100gp in diamond dust to cast Restoration, and that's it.

I agree there are a few ways to change that, but RAW is pretty meh.

[gustavo iglesias]

OK, here I have a first draft of my version of Necronomicon.

Roll DC 35 or 1d6 Wis damage. This damage cannot be healed through magic, only resting (1 Wis damage per day). Wish or Miracle can heal it, though. If the Will roll is a natural 1, it can't be rerrolled and then you get 1d6 Wis drain, which again can only be healed with Wish or Miracle.

The Necronomicon gives you the following:

Chapter 1 has the Eternal Apotheosis ritual, allowing you to become a lich.

Chapter 2 allows the wielder of the book to survive without food or water, is inmune to fatigue or exhaustion, and resist any element like under the effect of a constant Endure Element.

Chapter 3 allow the wielder to Command Undead, like a Necromancer of their level. It also gives the owner permenent Life Sense, which works like Blindsight 60' but only vs living creatures and undead (Does not work with Construct, Elementals, objects, outsiders, and creatures that aren't living or undead). Mastering this chapter allows the user to cast Animate Dead at CL 20 as an SLA.

Chapter 4 Gives the ability to cast Contact I-IV as a SLA, once per day . You don't have to use material components, but you suffer 1d4 wis drain. Mastering this chapter for the first time produces permanent Wisdom Drain if you fail your Will save.

Chapter 5 Spellbook, with preparation Ritual: all spells in this spell book (the ones mentioned in the entry, no other spell can be written there) are Extended, Enlarged, Empowered and Quickened. You have a -4 to saves for spells and SLA from creatures and cultists of the Elder Mythos.

Chapter 6 Mind Swap and Major Mind Swap

Chapter 7 Contact other plane (as written) and Vision as SLA.

Chapter 8 Enter the dreamlands at will, and Astral Projection as SLA,

Chapter 9 Ouroboros Ritual.

Chapter 10 greater teleport, which can circunvent Dimensional Lock and similar barriers. Every time you use this SLA, you have to roll it as if you were mastering it (DC 35 1d6 wis damage), and there is a 5% chance to be noticed by the denizens of Tindalos, often by advanced hounds with CR 15+
It also has the rituals needed in the AP to align the Star Stelae.

I'm open to suggestions, as this is just a first draft.

[gustavo iglesias]

In general, I think the book should be powerful, tempting, and damning. Things loke Empowering/quickening spells, but -4 to saves, or the lich corruption. Things a player would say «that's OP!» but also «this spounds like a terrible idea thst I will regret». But the punish shouldn't be as hard as to make taking the risk a dumb proposition that nobody would take.

So far, I'm not too happy with the Wis Damage thing. But I havent found any other idea that I like.

[catdragon]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

OK, here I have a first draft of my version of Necronomicon.

Roll DC 35 or 1d6 Wis damage. This damage cannot be healed through magic, only resting (1 Wis damage per day). Wish or Miracle can heal it, though. If the Will roll is a natural 1, it can't be rerrolled and then you get 1d6 Wis drain, which again can only be healed with Wish or Miracle.

The Necronomicon gives you the following:

/snip/

I think i would not neatly divide things up, requiring a user to have to study the entire book at one time. IOW, the first time they study it (and make the save) they get an idea of what the book can accomplish, or perhaps some of what it can accomplish (for every five points they make the DC by, they get an additional possibility past the first).

And i would require the save each time they crack the book...

And here is an idea, treat study of the book as an addiction... they have to make a fort save or go back and read the book else suffer a point of Wisdom drain/damage as they continue to obsess over the book.

Or perhaps the first touch causes an obsession insanity....

IMO, the Necronomicon should be dangerous, sanity threatening, addictive, and obsessive.

[gustavo iglesias]

Mmmm.
Corruption rules might be worth it for the Necronomicon.

[Alsolomir]

I took over the Gming of Strange Aeons after our Gm had to leave for real life. He had attempted to use the Sanity rules. I found them clunky and awkward. I found a way that I preferred to introduce the feeling into the game play.

I basically applied 'afflictions' to each PC based upon their backgrounds and characterizations. I tried to keep them flavorful without causing many actual mechanical penalties.

The witch hunter in my group is the center of superstitions...Black cats cross his path, mirrors inexplicably crack and break, and coins dropped land on edge and people tell him he is cursed but don't remember saying it afterwards.

The witch has an unknown connection to Zhamen Dhor and is highly sexualized by men (and lesbians). She can auto succeed in diplomacy but afterwards is the focus of unwanted advances often ending in brutal fighting amoungst men in the streets. Men pounding each other in the face to win her favor but smiling at her the whole time.

The keneticist is the center of all communication from Klaclatak. So he will stop and say strange things in a deep hollow voice. While being assailed by visions. He also is afraid of corruption so everytime he is near small dead things they animate slightly, twitching and stumbling about.

The witch is connected to the leylines and a character that had the black blood curse. So she is seeing the whole AP as a corruption of the ley lines. Since the ley lines are like magic blood vessels for the multi verse, I have given her body horror. Teeth falling out, disease phobias and fungus.

The characters don't have to do anything for this except react. I have also built some paranoia into the group as well. They do inexplicable things to each other as well as they become more and more influenced by the AP. One character will wake up with all the other characters doing some strange ritual over them while sleep walking. I think these work better for setting the mood than the Sanity rules.

[Alsolomir]

I follow the idea of showing rather than telling. The fun thing about this is I have begun to make the players start to question their own character's perception.

I have warned them that their actions have consequences. They didn't enter the attic in the alchemist's house, so I had the dark young escape the attic and start breeding (Shub Niggarath is a breeding machine). By the time they reach Katheer the city of Cassomir is overrun. They are told that the port of Cassomir is quarantined.

Everytime they say the name of Zhamen Dor someone in the city dies horrifically.

One of the sailors saw a yellow figure walking on the mist shrouded water and he heard a haunting whistled song. When they arrived in Katheer the song becomes contagious and while gathering information a bar goes from one person whistling a tune in the back of the bar to the whole bar whistling.

There are so many ways to introduce atmosphere.