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Hello, backers!
This thread is a place for backers of the Grimoire of Lost Souls to consolidate any last-minute questions or feedback they might have. The Early Access period for the Grimoire of Lost Souls will run from Thursday, August 25th, to Monday, August 30th. After August 30th, Dario and I will be finalizing the PDF and submitting it for release and printing. We expect the PDF to be released by September 4th and the print product to start shipping out to backers roughly two weeks after that, but its difficult to predict such things as the ball is literally out of our court once we hand the file over to other parties.
In the meantime, what is this thread for? This thread is for consolidating any feedback that you may have on the Early Access PDF. This can include typos and weird sentences, mechanical issues, or simple compliments regarding how awesome/twisted we are. We encourage people who don't have the EA PDF to follow and participate in this thread—all aboard the hype train and all that.
Thank you for your patience and support while we finalized the Grimoire of Lost Souls. We couldn't have done it without you, and we hope the product looks and feels like everything we have promised!
Dario Nardi & Alex Augunas
Woo! Great to see this moving forward!
Question: for those of us who have Superstar Backer (or any other backer) classifications, will we be listed with our Paizo/Kickstarter name or our real name? Do we have an option?
(BTW - great choices on artwork! I've loved the updates you've shown).
Woo! Great to see this moving forward!
Question: for those of us who have Superstar Backer (or any other backer) classifications, will we be listed with our Paizo/Kickstarter name or our real name? Do we have an option?
(BTW - great choices on artwork! I've loved the updates you've shown).
Dario designed that page. I'm not sure which he picked.
Just downloaded a copy. The book looks great! Love the cover!
It looks like we're all listed under our real names... except for cases where that might not have been provided, anyway.
I just got my copy, and I'm going through it now. ^^
Hooray!
I've noticed one typo so far: Pactsworn Magus's Occult Training ability says you count your Magus levels as Fighter levels for binder secrets and pact feats. Should this be Pactmaker, rather than Fighter?
It looks like we're all listed under our real names... except for cases where that might not have been provided, anyway.
I just got my copy, and I'm going through it now. ^^
Just got my copy and yes - real names were used. That's super cool.
There isn't anything listing the playtesters, though. :(
I'll have fun digging through the document more thoroughly after work.
...Hm. Maybe I've missed some retraining shenanigans, but the Resilience Pact Augmentation says it can be taken up to five times... but it's only available starting at level 9, and counting from there, a Pactbinder can only get four more Pact Augmentations (at 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th levels). Where's the fifth supposed to come from?
*Snaps finger and points*
Bingo. I hadn't gotten to the Feats section yet, so I hadn't thought to look for that. XD Looks like we're good on that, then.
Oh.. I'm looking forward to digging into this tonight!
So far I have to say that this is worth the wait--even worth more of a wait, truthfully!
The look of the book is wonderful! The in-page artwork is great, and the mixture of old and new art only enhances my enjoyment of it. The chapter art spreads are nothing short of amazing.
I really like the colorization of the pages--it's easier for me to find the information I need. And the gilding of the Spirit Seals really makes them pop.
I'm excited to go through and see the revisions from the older document I have--I have a full group of five players who are all dabblers of pact magic (one Pactsworn Champion, 4 Amateur Occultists) and they have all loved what pact magic brings to the game. One player in particular likes failing his binding check so that he falls under the influence of the spirit.
Again, great work! I really appreciate all the time you and Dario have spent on this!
Page 50, Mad Cultist
- Tunneled Lore: The last sentence refers to "him" instead of "her."
Page 78, God Binder
- The benefit refers to both "vestigial bond" and "vestigial boon." From the wording it seems "boon" should instead be "bond."
Page 101, Aza'zati
- "Vestigial Companion" should be "Vestigial Bond (Companion)."
Second on the chapter spreads! Jawdropping. Thanks for your hard work & commitment to excellence!
What my page through has revealed thus far. (quotes have errors italicized):
“Drink this, my king, and it will not hurt. Most importantly, you will fool the fiend, and your soul will fly free to the seven heavens where you belong.” This last part was a lie.
In the PDF, there isn't a space between the closing quotation marks and the word This. However, it shows up on a copy and paste - and no, it's at the last line of the paragraph, so it's more than a tight justification.
» bind spirit I† (1 charge)
» bind spirit II† (2 charges)
» bind spirit III† (4 charges)
» bolster binding† (charge)
» draw seal† (1 charge)
Bolster binding doesn't provide a number of charges required.
Yes, undeniably so.
Here, the header is formatted as paragraph text, and the question asked doesn't match the answer given...
DC 25: ... and romantic commitment is frowned upon is frowned upon, as all Brigade...
'is frowned upon' is duplicated.
Hooray!
I've noticed one typo so far: Pactsworn Magus's Occult Training ability says you count your Magus levels as Fighter levels for binder secrets and pact feats. Should this be Pactmaker, rather than Fighter?
Yes.
There isn't anything listing the playtesters, though. :(It looks like we're all listed under our real names... except for cases where that might not have been provided, anyway.
I just got my copy, and I'm going through it now. ^^
Sorry! We didn't really have the room for it, and we didn't want to use up time interviewing everyone who commented in the thread for player names.
It was a matter of getting the product out faster.
I've read and compiled all feedback up to this point so far.
Thanks, everyone! Keep it coming. :D
Perty.
So, since there isn't probably room for it, what would be the mechanical details of the plane of Tartarus? I mean, I know what Tartarus itself is (i.e. via Greek Mythology), but I don't know anything about what it does in this specific context.
Also, any chance we'll get direct links to the spirits via the spirit table, like the pdf before? I used that all the time in getting to specific spirits.
Edit: Also, under Achaelous' Partial Transformation it says, "You transform your head into a bull’s head as a standard action, granting you a +2 size bonus to Strength but reducing your Intelligence to 2."
Maybe this is on purpose, but I'm sort of hoping it means, reducing your Intelligence by 2, instead of to 2
Page 10, 12, Constellation Aspects:
- Angel, Beast, Dark Beyond, Skull: Granted spell-like abilities are not italicized and spells from the APG have the APG denotation as all caps instead of a superscript.
Under Kaiya's Detect Evil ability, it says, "While You can sense the presence or absence of evil at will..." Don't think the "While", is needed.
Side question. Anyone know how one would keep a pdf from switching zoom levels when clicking on bookmarks? I like mine set at 125%, but whenever I click on a bookmark now, it reverts to 75%
Edit: For Circe's Runes, under the woman rune, it says Chamr Person, instead of Charm Person.
Page 18/16 (Pdf/book numbered) Mercicul Spirit Secret, Missing a Close Parenthesis mark ')' after the word 'fire' in the 4th line of Benefits paragraph.
Same Page, Occult Weapon Secret, /corrosive burst/ from APG, the 'APG' is not set to superscript.
Page 20/18. Spirit Imp Secret. The special cross denotation behind the word 'imp' in the Benefits paragraph also is not superscripted like other instances (such as new spells). [Sorry I don't remember the name for the character; clave? grave?]
Or is this intentional, and only to have it superscripted on new spells?
Because I find a page or two later Undying Salvation and it has a slew of what I can only assume are feats or secrets that are also noted with the same mark. (Do Secrets ever have feats as prerequisites? If they do, how do you distinguish them for prerequisite Secrets, which would be terribly confusing.)
Anyways, that's 4 hours for the first 20 pages of so. I don't know how the rest of the weekend's going to go, but, I'll see if I can't find time to add some more.
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So, since there isn't probably room for it, what would be the mechanical details of the plane of Tartarus? I mean, I know what Tartarus itself is (i.e. via Greek Mythology), but I don't know anything about what it does in this specific context.
Tartarus is something I want to explore in a future product, but here are a few thoughts (nothing set in stone because who knows when I'll get to writing this):
—Tartarus is probably strongly Evil-aligned.—Tartarus likely has some sort of effect that's sort of like dimension lock. Once you're on the plane, teleportation off of it would be impossible.
—Tartarus isn't infinite, but its so big that it might as well be.
—Tartarus actively spawns things to try to psychologically break you. Illusions and the like. Illusions are probably stronger on Tartarus.
Also, any chance we'll get direct links to the spirits via the spirit table, like the pdf before? I used that all the time in getting to specific spirits.
I will ask Dario if it is possible in the final cut. No guarantees, as I don't know what led to its removal (it could be oversight, it could be technical).
Edit: Also, under Achaelous' Partial Transformation it says, "You transform your head into a bull’s head as a standard action, granting you a +2 size bonus to Strength but reducing your Intelligence to 2."
Maybe this is on purpose, but I'm sort of hoping it means, reducing your Intelligence by 2, instead of to 2
Nope, you are as smart as a beast for the power's duration. It works similar to the "Baphomet's Blessing" spell from Inner Sea Gods.
Up to date. Thanks, everyone!
Also, Dario informed me that he's going on a vacation next week, which is why the e-mail you should have received says you have until Thursday / Friday. (My post on the Kickstarter says Monday).
We'll be accepting feedback until he gets back from his vacation, in any case.
I've been meaning to mention this - 144 Spirits is some serious work on providing options for characters, and it's one of the things that makes me glad I backed this. XD There's a lot of different ways to flavor characters, given the sheer diversity here. I'm looking forward to writing up a full review for you, and I'll try to get that up as soon as I can.
I've been meaning to mention this - 144 Spirits is some serious work on providing options for characters, and it's one of the things that makes me glad I backed this. XD There's a lot of different ways to flavor characters, given the sheer diversity here. I'm looking forward to writing up a full review for you, and I'll try to get that up as soon as I can.
Thank you! :D
Page 13/15, Binder Secrets:
increases the number of rounds that the major granted ability is expended for to 10 rounds,
Found something. Pg 48. Oracle Mystery: Spirit Realm. Gray Mockery: The first two deformations are both listed as -2 Penalty to Attack Rolls. I'm guessing one should be damage?
Edit: For the record, I love the Spirit Realm Oracle... And I'm not usually a big fan of the class.
Found something. Pg 48. Oracle Mystery: Spirit Realm. Gray Mockery: The first two deformations are both listed as -2 Penalty to Attack Rolls. I'm guessing one should be damage?
Yup. Should be damage.
I am really enjoying the changes to some of the archetypes--so much so that I'd have trouble picking any given one!
For the [Wording] issues below, these are just things that sounded odd to me as I was reading--enough that it would take me out of reading for a moment. I give suggestions, but they are by no means the best option. :)
Page 23, Solar Orchid Sage
- Expanded Formula: "At 17 level..." and "At 19 level...", should be "17th" and "19th."Page 24, Occult Exploiter
- Diminished Spellcasting: "...one less spell at each...", should be "one fewer."Page 27, Suicide Soldier
- Death Company Member: "...who are at least indifference towards her.", should be "indifferent."
- Bind Spirit: "The spirit's level may not exceed by the suicide soldier maximum spirit level...", should be "...may not exceed the suicide soldier's maximum spirit level..."Page 27, Totemic Sage
- Bind Spirit: "...may not exceed the totemic sage's maximum spirit level, which is which is...", extra "which is."Page 28, The Court of Omachio
- Description: [Wording] "Feel-good vibes" seems a bit off considering the language used throughout the book. "Blissful thoughts" seems like a better fit.
- Effect: "...as part of your perform...", should be "performance."
- Effect: [Wording] The paragraph sounds a little odd to me with the first and second sentences sounding so similar. Maybe the first sentence could be something like:
"You enact a confession of true love as part of your performance, your words able to stir even the coldest of hearts."Page 28, La Vampiro de la Mente
- Description: [Wording] This sentence seems a little weird to me. Maybe just change the first part to "As you perform,"?Page 29, The Living Scarecrow
- Effect: "...chills down your listener's spines.", should be "listeners'"Page 29, The Lonely Mastiff
- Effect: "When you complete this perform...", "...except this perform..." should be "performance."Page 29, Sonnet of Ser Japh
- Description: "You perform several lines...that crushes...", should be "crush."
- Effect: "You recite several lines of poetry...which causes...", should be "cause."
- Effect: "A successful Will saving throws...", should be "throw."Page 30, The Legend of the Worglord
- Effect: "...or any ability that requires patience of concentration...", "of" should be "or."Page 30, The Tale of Teu and Lae
- Description: This description doesn't match the voice of the other masterpieces. It should be similar to:
"You give a rousing speech that causes you to magically switch places with another creature."
- Effect: Should "entangle" and "chain of perdition" be italicized here?Page 30, The Thing Out from Time
- Effect: "Your repeat a performance is so horrifically terrifying that...", I'm not sure what this should be. Maybe "You recite a ghastly story that is so horrifically terrifying that..."
- Effect: [Wording] "Upon completing the performance, your performance..." sounds odd. Maybe "Upon completion, your performance..."Page 30, The Three Siblings
- Description: [Wording] "...creates a dragon out of you" in this context sounds a bit odd. Maybe:
"You recite a draconic creation myth that empowers you with their ancient might."Page 31, Soul Muse
- Diminished Spellcasting: "A soul muse possesses 1 less spell per day...", should be "one fewer spell."
- Diminished Spellcasting: "...the soul muse receives one fewer spells...", should be "spell."
Near the bottom of page 8, in the will pact augmentation, there should be a paragraph break in "throws. Beginning"
Page 43, Inquisitor inquisitions: "can gain an inquisition (...) in place of an inquisition."
Nope, you are as smart as a beast for the power's duration. It works similar to the "Baphomet's Blessing" spell from Inner Sea Gods.
There is a problem with this, i think.
The spell does list a ton of exceptions on it's effect, like retaining BAB, class levels, all class features and can even cast spells.
While a creature with 2 INT is proficient with any weapons? They cannot even speak or understand speech without a Handle Animal check (if it's an animal, not the case).
So the character becomes animal-like, but he retains the ability to use any of his class features, weapons or feats? Im certain that they cannot cast spells if they are based on INT.
Shouldn't this state that this reduction should be treated as ability damage? Or is this ability drain (which reduces skill points).
0 - Comatose
1 - Lives by the most basic instincts, not capable of logic or reason
2-3 - Animal-level intelligence, acts mostly on instinct but can be trained
4–5 - Can speak but is apt to react instinctively and impulsively, sometimes resorts to charades to express thoughts
6–7 - Dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces words
8–9 - Has trouble following trains of thought, forgets most unimportant things
The ability should list what happens when he attempts an int based skill check or similar situations. Should they simply take -4 to all int-based checks (minus whatever was his positive bonus) and that's it?
Back in 3.5, we had this exact quote from the monsters as races:
creatures with an Intelligence score lower than 3 are not playable characters.
The Devotee's Sacrificial Brand says that you can take it again to make "activating" the brand a move/swift action. Should this also apply to deactivating the brand, ie the standard action to stop the bleed damage?
Edit: Also, the Ring of Reincarnation says that 1 minute after dying, you automatically reincarnate 1 day later. Which is correct?
Edit 2: The dedicated vest has a typo: "While wearing a dedicated vest, the wearer automatically gain the capstone empowerments of any spirits that she is bound to." Gain should be gains.
Edit 3(!): Is it intentional that Gnostic Tomes aren't lost in the process of being read, and can thus be given to all the binders in the party and then sold for half the price you paid for them? If so, cool.
Edit 4: The Teeth of Lehran-Darv entry has a grammatical error: "A creature that is implanted with a tooth of Lehran-Darv and bound to that tooth’s associated spirit simultaneously, it gains a +4 bonus to its binder level when determining the effects of that spirit’s granted abilities." Presumably we want "If a creature is implanted...", or perhaps "Lehran-Darv, and bound ... simultaneously, gains a..."
Edit 5: The Vaduvian Sphere is probably supposed to be violet-tinted, not "violent-tint". Also, it's not explicitly stated that you get one charge per age category drained.
The edit window has timed out, but I've spotted another typo, on page 326:
"the binder retains most of her autonomously when she makes a possession pact"
Edit: page 328: "Those who agreed were given the secret knowledge to bind the shards of the fragments of the Atlan gods and those who declined or were reduced in societal standing to menial peasantry." "Or" should be deleted, I think.
Edit 2: Also page 328: "As countless frehmin souls streamed into the afterlife, it is said that the gods could turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed by the Atlans, for the gods feared that soon the Atlans would seek to conquer them just as they had utterly conquered the mortal world." Should there be a negative somewhere in the first part of the sentence?
Edit 3: Also page 328: "Without the means to control those that they taught pact magic too": Too should be to.
Edit 4: Page 329: Something seems to have gone wrong with the following sentence: "Perhaps reality is fictitious and spirits are reality’s storytellers and listeners, or maybe their constant presence in an unchanging state throughout history they are the writers of reality’s tale, with binders acting as the leading characters of reality’s tale."
Edit 5: Page 330: "ravager spirits have the power to self-bind themselves to mortal souls when in close approximation to a host". Is this some obscure use of the word "approximation", or should the word be "proximity"?
Edit 6: Page 330: "How Can a Spirit Be in Two Pacts at Once?" should probably be a title? And either the "how", or the "Yes, undeniably so" on the next line, should be deleted.
Edit 7: Page 331: "Some go further, suggesting that the Spirit Realm and its inhabits are actually a “more real reality” then the multiverse and its denizens." "Then" should be "than".
Page 329, "and even great recurring binders by name". "great" should probably be "greet".
The Apocryphal Desert: "Rather, each oasis on the Apocryphal Desert is linked to a single, fixed location on another planes via its apex, and as such the terrain within each oases contorts to mirror its cosmic counterpart": planes should be plane, and oases should be oasis. Similarly in DC 20 entry of the knowledge check sidebar for the desert, we have "each oases".
Also, "and their influence is great enough that travellers to the Apocryphal Desert tare met with hassles at every turn without the guild’s blessings" tare should be are?
In the information on the Atlan Graveyard, in the Byways:
"By answering the summons of binders and teaching them to wild his power, Prime Ravager slowly paved the way for the formation of the Ravage Binders..." Firstly, wild should probably be wield. Secondly, shouldn't that be "the Prime Ravager"?
In the Path of Black Leaves:
"None who have ventured to the Path of Black Leaves have returned with their sanity fully intact, and most who go their at all are never seen again." Their should be there.
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Climbing on the hype train, can't wait for this to become publicly available!
Now there's just the question of if I'll be able to play it in Strange Aeons.
The spell does list a ton of exceptions on it's effect, like retaining BAB, class levels, all class features and can even cast spells.
Personally, I don't think any of that text is necessary. The feeblemind spell doesn't need to list all of that, after all—it only lists what the spell affects. Lowering your Intelligence doesn't normally cause you to lose any of those things (see the intelligence rules in the Core Rulebook, which has a very extensive section on damage and reduction).
So the character becomes animal-like, but he retains the ability to use any of his class features, weapons or feats? Im certain that they cannot cast spells if they are based on INT.
Righto. But I don't need to call that out because its a base part of the spellcasting rules.
Shouldn't this state that this reduction should be treated as ability damage? Or is this ability drain (which reduces skill points).
Nope, because its not ability damage and its not ability drain.
The ability should list what happens when he attempts an int based skill check or similar situations. Should they simply take -4 to all int-based checks (minus whatever was his positive bonus) and that's it?
It doesn't have to, because the Intelligence rules already tell you what modifier an Intelligence of 2 has.
Back in 3.5, we had this exact quote from the monsters as races:
creatures with an Intelligence score lower than 3 are not playable characters.
This isn't 3.5, and 3.5 broke that rule with the feeblemind spell.
Climbing on the hype train, can't wait for this to become publicly available!
Now there's just the question of if I'll be able to play it in Strange Aeons.
As someone who is prepping Strange Aeons, this would be a REALLY good class for Strange Aeons.
The Nightfang Weald has the following introduction:
"A nightmarish forest cast in perpetual twilight, the Nightfang Weald is believed to be a long-forgotten prototype of the Faerie Realm that was cast aside by the gods and used as a prison for unruly fey. The Nightfang Weald is well-suited to those looking to conspire against the gods or perform deeds that those of faith would fine taboo, especially pact magic."
"Fine" should presumably be "find". Also, the space between the two sentences doesn't show up in the pdf, even though it does when copy-pasting into the forum.
At the bottom of the same page: "where mortals may be devour"
The Devotee's Sacrificial Brand says that you can take it again to make "activating" the brand a move/swift action. Should this also apply to deactivating the brand, ie the standard action to stop the bleed damage?
No. Stopping it is still a standard action.
Edit: Also, the Ring of Reincarnation says that 1 minute after dying, you automatically reincarnate 1 day later. Which is correct?
Both. The ring basically "locks you in" 1 minute after you die. That way if someone takes the ring from your corpse two minutes after death, you'll still return to life. I'll see if there's a better way we can word this in respect to our word count.
Edit 3(!): Is it intentional that Gnostic Tomes aren't lost in the process of being read, and can thus be given to all the binders in the party and then sold for half the price you paid for them? If so, cool.
Yes. You can do the same for pages of spell knowledge.
Caught up to this point.
Page 32, Ergon
- Bloodline Powers: "...manifesting as bestially mutations...", should be "bestial."
Page 32, Ravaged
- Vortex Guard: "...the spirits that surround you becoming opaque while you bloodrage...", should be "become."
Page 35, Bloodravager
- Ravage Binder: "The bloodravager is considered to be a permanent pact with his ravager spirit...", should be "...to be in a permanent pact..."
Mechanics:
The Bloodravager isn't immune to the Charisma damage from the ravager spirit until 3rd level. According to the mechanics of the spirits, each day a ravager spirit is bound its host takes 1d4 Charisma damage that cannot be healed until the spirit is ousted, and at 0 Charisma the host's spirit is permanently exiled.
Wouldn't this mean that a Level 1 Bloodravager would quickly have his soul ejected from his body, becoming nothing but the host of the ravager spirit, adding the ravaged vessel template?
Would it make more sense for the Bloodravager to take no Charisma damage from the ravager spirit as part of the Ravage Binder feature?
My apologies if I'm misunderstanding the mechanics.
On Page 93, it mentions that we get 14 spirits per level - but I think most levels actually get more... 15 or, in one case, 16.
I also counted 137 spirits in total, but the book says there's 144 (in multiple places, no less)? What am I missing?
Page 97 - Giza Sekhmet's alignment (Neutral) isn't showing up on the chart.
Page 113 - Marat's "Bodyguard" power should probably specify that it's a feat, since other things have that name.
Edit 3(!): Is it intentional that Gnostic Tomes aren't lost in the process of being read, and can thus be given to all the binders in the party and then sold for half the price you paid for them? If so, cool.Yes. You can do the same for pages of spell knowledge.
While I don't object to having the Tomes work that way, as a point of rules accuracy that's not how pages of spell knowledge work: you need to have the page in your possession to cast the spell on it.
Another typo: In the legend of Mare Loviatha, Tomith should apparently have been more "cautions".
Page 287 - The Mental Regression spell says "You" can't cast spells whose minimum caster level is greater than 1. I feel like this is a debuff for the caster...? It should probably be updated for clarity. Also, that is a NASTY spell.
Page 287 - The Mental Regression spell says "You" can't cast spells whose minimum caster level is greater than 1. I feel like this is a debuff for the caster...? It should probably be updated for clarity. Also, that is a NASTY spell.
It's not actually all that nasty; remember it's competing against the likes of Overwhelming Grief and Forgetful Slumber, both of which will make the creature completely unable to act and will harm their defences, and don't require the enemy to be in touch range.
Page 348 - the Apocryphal Desert mentions both the Maelstrom and Limbo.
(Isn't the Maelstrom Product Identity for Paizo? I'd double-check that just to be sure.)