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I was reading this adventure earlier when I came across this section on page 37 regarding the interaction between the two nobles and the PCs:
** spoiler omitted **
My question is Daelene is going to pull that trick off exactly how? Daelene does not have any means of accomplishing that trick - anyone in the room will automatically notice her spellcasting. While only a successful Spellcraft check would identify the exact spell she cast, she cannot hide the fact that she cast a spell (or is in the process of casting a spell), as per the FAQ on identifying spells (see here!).
At best, all she can do is use Bluff to lie about what spell she used - "Oh, it was just a minor cantrip to chill the wine a bit more. Hah, all of those months of hideously expensive private tutoring and what do I have to show for it to dear old Mum and Dad, who were hoping their only daughter would one day be a mighty wizard? How amazing, I can chill wine. Truly, an astounding feat for the ages, don't you think?"
CB
Hi there! This came up not long after this adventure was released, but strangely it doesn't seem to have been brought up in this thread.
Here's the first thread that brought it up.
And here is my response in a second thread where it came up.
The short answer is that was my mistake because I was unaware of that FAQ at the time this adventure went to print. Some folks in those two threads (mainly the first) have some good suggestions on how to address that encounter in your campaign.
Hope this helps some!
That explains why I did not see any previous threads here on the Strange Aeons forum about this because I did a keyword search for Daelene and not "surreptitiously," heh.
I figured just changing her feats would probably suffice but I was a bit taken back because I thought "What the heck? Nobody else noticed this?"
Thanks for the fairly quick reply, Mr. Daigle! I appreciate also the links to the other threads where it was discussed - the suggestions there are food for thought. It helps to have such foresight, :)
CB
In my game I handled it with a very mature 'I'm the GM. I control the horizontal. I control the vertical. And I think spell manifestations are stupid.'
Worked great until the bard rolled a nat 20 on her will save.
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I just changed her feats and gave her conceal casting
They almost killed 2 party members who a
Split from the group (I put this encounter outside, in Silver Wagon).
They were trying to convince the nobles to sell them some diamond, as they needed 1000gp for Restoration and there is no jeweler shop in Thrushmoor
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Why is Mordiggian CE, rather than NE, LE, or CN? I've read the short story he first appeared in, and he seemed not chaotic at all, but had a seemingly strict code he followed.
Was the change just to make a more unique version of the Great Old One, or was Mordiggian chaotic and evil in other short stories that I guess I hadn't heard of?
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In the lobby (D1) section of Fort Hailcourse, it is said that Melisenn slew the mercenaries inside the fort and raised them as Juju zombies. Yet she isn't a high enough level Cleric for Create Undead. She also seems to lack a way to control the intelligent undead mercenaries, who likely aren't pleased they've been killed. How is this explained?
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Daridela's morale says that if she is reduced to fewer than 10 hit points, she casts obscuring mist and flees. Only... she doesn't have obscuring mist as one of her memorized spells... Guess she's losing that cure light wounds.
(Also, if I were her I'd be casting barkskin and call lightning rather than cat's grace and produce flame. If you have access to 3rd level spells, probably want to use those before 1st levels!)
(Also also, I think I'm gonna give her the Fungal Pilgrim archetype from Heroes of the Darklands, since her tactics don't have her use wild shape anyway...)
Got another question concerning the Keeper of the yellow sign in the cellar.
In the room of the last encounter where the pc´s are going to fight Melisen is a mosaik showing the yellow sign. Is this just a decoration or is it ment as the real thing?
If it is the real thing then my next question would be if it´s an active one or not.
Thanks for your thoughts in advance
Thanks for your quick reply Adam - your input is highly appreciated.
Back to the revenant (again).
A revenant isn't destroyed until the murderer dies.
So did people really keep hitting the PCs every single night forever?
I'll most likely be running the revenant tonight, and I really think it's just going to be, "Kill the PC. Die." Not a great encounter.
The advice on having it attack from a distance so the PCs get a couple of shots at it first is good, but what about the fact that it comes back every single night, forever?
How did people manage that annoyance?
EDIT: Or am I just misreading "flavor text" as "rules text", and they only have to kill it once?
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Also, you're totally right that revenants can be deadly foes. From a player perspective, every time I've been in a group having to fight a revenant things got scary real fast and the target got dropped every single time. Having the PCs spot the revenant at a distance is helpful, but if you're still worried about the revenant taking out a PC, designate a PC as the target that's in the back of the group instead of front (or even worse, far ahead of or away from the party).
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A very mundane question, but one I couldn't find an answer to.
What's expected to happen with the survivors from the Asylum. The player characters potentially turn up in Thrushmoor shepherding 30+ ex-patients and staff, but have trouble getting even 3-4 beds for the night for themselves. Anyone got any suggestions on what happens with them / where they and Winter+Wren while the party are investigating Thrushmoor?
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A very mundane question, but one I couldn't find an answer to.
What's expected to happen with the survivors from the Asylum. The player characters potentially turn up in Thrushmoor shepherding 30+ ex-patients and staff, but have trouble getting even 3-4 beds for the night for themselves. Anyone got any suggestions on what happens with them / where they and Winter+Wren while the party are investigating Thrushmoor?
My party was extremely sensitive to this: They went ashore with Winter and Captain York, bought a few hundred pounds of food, returned it to the asylum, and said, "Something funny is going on in town. Please stay at the asylum until we've solved this mystery."
So my PCs thought of it, thought of a good solution, and I rolled with it.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The chapel of Pharasma in town is a two-story building with a sanctuary and an infirmary, and is recently missing its head priest.
I ran it that staff and any (non-dangerous) patients that had families or homes to return to were cut loose, while Winter and Wren took the rest to the New Chapel.
I could have sworn that was mentioned in the adventure somewhere, but a quick scan didn't find it, so maybe my memory is faulty.
Regarding the Keeper of the Yellow sign, on the Entropic Drain entry, it reads :
A keeper’s use of its energy draining
ability can result in a surge of entropy that consumes
its body and disrupts life all around it. Every time the
keeper’s entropic drain attack results in a creature’s
death, the keeper must succeed at a DC 17 Fortitude
saving throw or be destroyed. If the keeper is destroyed,
all sentient beings in a 15-foot radius around the
keeper gain a negative level (Fortitude DC 17 negates).
If any negative level bestowed by a keeper becomes
permanent, the victim must succeed at a DC 17 Will
saving throw or die after 1 hour of delirium. The save DCs
are Charisma-based.
So does this mean that if the player fails the fortitude save after 24 hours (and the negative level becomes permanent) that they must also save or die?? (from the delirium??)
Or is this only in the case of the drain, killing a creature, and then the keeper exploding from failing his own save (and thereby giving the negative level to everyone in the radius??)
Yes, for the save or die. It's a pretty deadly monster.
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The detectives is the first thing I can think of. Maybe while they are waiting to be sacrified, she sneaks in and starts arescue. Allow them to fight their way out of Iris Hall.
Maybe add some voices in their heads that tell them where they have to turn left or right, warn them about monsters nearby,etc. Then add Iris Hall to the chapter in book6, the one where the PC time travel in dreams to save themselves from the tatterman.
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So looking for ideas. I thought I had done a good job steering the players well, but after being turned down entry into the Fort, even though they knew their were monsters they proceeded to Iris Hill. Again I prevented them from going in the front, but they insisted on trying the back. It went poorly and they all ended up surrendering to some of the cultists and the assassin. Surrender made a fair amount of sense given not just how the combat was going, but also how everyone was positioned making escape difficult if not impossible. Bottom line I need some creative suggestions to give them an out.
So:
#1: I had exactly the same issue. The motivation for the party to do the fort before Iris Hill is essentially nonexistent. So if you're a new GM about to run this, take heed: Figure out a strong motivation for the PCs to do the fort before Iris Hill, or there is likely to be trouble.
#2: That being said, I think my best suggestions are:
Not fun, but they can then borrow some gear and they get the idea they need a lot more XP before taking on Iris Hill, pointing them towards the Fort. And just add a bit of loot to the fort to make up for what they lost.
Anyway, if I come up with any better ones I'll post again.
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At the moment I'm trying to figure out if there is a plausible rescue right away. I hadn't thought about another time travel loop. My initial concern with letting them get to deep into Iris Hill is that it becomes difficult to figure out how the Sleepless detectives can get in as well without either being a complete reach or even worse completely stealing the PCs spotlight. That said if anyone can think of a good holding location they might break out from... I do think it will be memorable. I'm starting to get a few other ideas they haven't discovered that the Royal accuser is dead yet, so perhaps a cell mate? I'd love some more
T
The Royal Accuser as a cell mate is a good idea. Can be powerful enough to make a escape plausible, self-sacrificing in the process maybe. Also , as an alternative, she can give them a bit of hindsight before she is executed.Good places to hold them might be:
1) near the Stelae. Let them watch some evil cultists use the teleport ability, let them hear the command word. Give them an oportunity to take down a guard, much like they did in the first encounter of book 1, and let them teleport away (again, a voice in their mind can guide them, and in this AP it wouldn't be a reach. Either the Yithian in book4 and 5 or themselves as timetravelling dreamers in book 6 could help them out)
2) in the deep well, or the caver with the elder things, or near. Let them escape and swim. This has the adventage that they might end in the fort, where they could get a bit more info and level up, before trying a new assault on Iris Hall.
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So looking for ideas. I thought I had done a good job steering the players well, but after being turned down entry into the Fort, even though they knew their were monsters they proceeded to Iris Hill. Again I prevented them from going in the front, but they insisted on trying the back. It went poorly and they all ended up surrendering to some of the cultists and the assassin. Surrender made a fair amount of sense given not just how the combat was going, but also how everyone was positioned making escape difficult if not impossible. Bottom line I need some creative suggestions to give them an out.
Tossing out some ideas:
The Sleepless agency (with or without Winter) can rescue them.
The PCs don't remember it, but they have some history in the town. You could introduce another NPC that remembers the characters, has access, and wants them to escape. (A scullery maid that had a crush on one of them? A butler/valet that was a friend? someone who makes food deliveries to Iris Hill smuggles them out in his wagon?)
Similarly you could introduce a cultist NPC who for their own motives (jealousy? Spite?) wants the other cultists to fail and releases the characters in exchange for some sort of bargain.
"It's a mystery Scooby Doo" - Someone can secretly let them out. You can figure out the whos and whys later.
Stupidity - Someone fails to find the rogue's lockpicks when searching them. A guard gets distracted and does not lock the door correctly.
Kuru anger issues - One or more of the Kuru decide it'll be more fun to beat up the PCs giving them an opportunity to escape...
Decadence gone wild....one or more of the decadent cultist nobles decides to "play" with one or more of the PCs giving opportunity for escape..
There's something no one knows about the room they are held in...a secret exit, a hidden key, a significant weapon.
etc.
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In the story, when the cultists capture villagers, they lock them in the Fort, not in Iris Hill.
So have the cultists lock them in the jail under the Fort. Makes escape easier, and gets them where they should have gone.
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How to get my players interested in entering Fort Hailcourse, as all clues are screaming Iris Hill to them.
Although doing it in the opposite order might make sense, I feel they will be inclined to jump on Lowls trail asap and the added 'dungeon' becomes somewhat lackluster after dealing with the cultist leadership.
It turns out that many of us have had the same problem. The best suggestion from one of my players was, "Have Cesadia point out that Iris Hill is well-defended, and maybe they can find some clues as to what's going on there by snooping around Fort Hailcourse first."
All in all, it was indeed the worst discontinuity of the AP (so far). All the clues point to Iris Hill, and they're supposed to go... to Fort Hailcourse?
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The main hooks for heading to Fort Hailcourse are (or should be) the missing Magistrate and the missing Royal Accuser. Both were last seen at Fort Hailcourse (the Magistrate because that's where he's usually found, and Accuser Omari because she was headed up there to investigate the place herself). Plus, it's clear to the whole town that something hinky is currently going down at the Fort, everyone is just afraid to do anything about it.
As for why those two figures are important enough to delay raiding Iris Hill, remember that Lowls is a legit Count. Nobility makes this thing complicated. Moving against Lowls without the backing of the County Magistrate or a Royal Accuser should give even chaotic parties some pause.
Add to that a personal request from Winter or Cesadia (both of whom have very good reasons to want the PCs to investigate the disappearances of the Magistrate and the Accuser), and that should be enough to pull parties toward Fort Hailcourse.
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The main hooks for heading to Fort Hailcourse are (or should be) the missing Magistrate and the missing Royal Accuser. Both were last seen at Fort Hailcourse (the Magistrate because that's where he's usually found, and Accuser Omari because she was headed up there to investigate the place herself). Plus, it's clear to the whole town that something hinky is currently going down at the Fort, everyone is just afraid to do anything about it.
As for why those two figures are important enough to delay raiding Iris Hill, remember that Lowls is a legit Count. Nobility makes this thing complicated. Moving against Lowls without the backing of the County Magistrate or a Royal Accuser should give even chaotic parties some pause.
Add to that a personal request from Winter or Cesadia (both of whom have very good reasons to want the PCs to investigate the disappearances of the Magistrate and the Accuser), and that should be enough to pull parties toward Fort Hailcourse.
So, I agree with you 100%, but...
...if you're a GM running the AP book-by-book, then you don't know to emphasize the Magistrate or Omari in Book 1, and Cesadia's information dump and suggested tasks on p.9-10 of Book 2 doesn't mention them at all, except in the sentence, "She's smart enough to know that the shuttering of Fort Hailcourse is highly irregular, even with the magistrate missing...". There's a lot of focus on Count Lowls, and then the final sentence, "...her words should help steer the PCs toward investigating Fort Hailcourse before attempting to infiltrate Iris Hill."So I feel it's a valid complaint that we GMs get quite a bit of subtext as to what's going on, but not enough warning that all the clues they'll encounter (the ghost, the cultists, the witch) will all point them towards Iris Hill, so we have to work hard to counter the as-delivered encounters with content of our own that points them towards Hailcourse.
I mean, the witch is the first place they're sent, and that provides the note from Melisenn (Iris Hill). Event 3 (Forgotten Friend) points to Iris Hill. Event 5 (The Thrushmoor Haunting) risks another pointer to Iris Hill if the PCs have high enough Knowledge: Nobility or Knowledge: History rolls so that they recognize Nemira. Event 6 (A Request for Aid) is likely to lead them towards Iris Hill because Event 7 (Ambush) has the cultists come out of... Iris Hill.
So, your answer is excellent, and will help many future GMs, and I thank you for it. But I think the Iris Hill/Hailcourse problem is a valid issue for many of us running the AP in a book-by-book fashion.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The main hooks for heading to Fort Hailcourse are (or should be) the missing Magistrate and the missing Royal Accuser. Both were last seen at Fort Hailcourse (the Magistrate because that's where he's usually found, and Accuser Omari because she was headed up there to investigate the place herself). Plus, it's clear to the whole town that something hinky is currently going down at the Fort, everyone is just afraid to do anything about it.
As for why those two figures are important enough to delay raiding Iris Hill, remember that Lowls is a legit Count. Nobility makes this thing complicated. Moving against Lowls without the backing of the County Magistrate or a Royal Accuser should give even chaotic parties some pause.
Add to that a personal request from Winter or Cesadia (both of whom have very good reasons to want the PCs to investigate the disappearances of the Magistrate and the Accuser), and that should be enough to pull parties toward Fort Hailcourse.
So, I agree with you 100%, but...
...if you're a GM running the AP book-by-book, then you don't know to emphasize the Magistrate or Omari in Book 1, and Cesadia's information dump and suggested tasks on p.9-10 of Book 2 doesn't mention them at all, except in the sentence, "She's smart enough to know that the shuttering of Fort Hailcourse is highly irregular, even with the magistrate missing...". There's a lot of focus on Count Lowls, and then the final sentence, "...her words should help steer the PCs toward investigating Fort Hailcourse before attempting to infiltrate Iris Hill."So I feel it's a valid complaint that we GMs get quite a bit of subtext as to what's going on, but not enough warning that all the clues they'll encounter (the ghost, the cultists, the witch) will all point them towards Iris Hill, so we have to work hard to counter the as-delivered encounters with content of our own that points them towards Hailcourse.
I mean, the witch is the first place they're sent, and that provides...
Oh, I don't disagree with you. My comment was, as you say, meant to help future GMs.
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@Benchak the Nightstalker: Thanks for helping this future DM! :D Seriously, really helpful.
According to Nemira's Projection ability, "she retains the same statistics as her physical self with the following changes..."
Does that mean the party has to fight an incorporeal creature with DR 10/Lawful?
I ran it that way, and other than the bloodrager the melee characters felt... utterly useless, which they were, since it's effectively a DR 20 against 6th level PCs.
Doesn't seem very nice to remove entire classes from a fight. How did other people manage it?
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Ok, one quick question what happened to Trilliss Mavaine? Does she show up later?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Presumably kidnapped by the cult and sacrificed to the star stelae. She does not show up later.
In my game, I ran it that the manananggal at Iris Hill used to be Trillis, who was turned into an undead by the penanggalen (she's one level off the 10 HD requirement, so I also bumped her pre-undead stats up a level).
Presumably kidnapped by the cult and sacrificed to the star stelae. She does not show up later.
In my game, I ran it that the manananggal at Iris Hill used to be Trillis, who was turned into an undead by the penanggalen (she's one level off the 10 HD requirement, so I also bumped her pre-undead stats up a level).
Thanks I'll have to do something similar or bring her back to life. My PC's would scour the multiverse for her otherwise lol
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I stole the idea as well, though I never told my players. Just mentioned the slightest hint of vinegar in the temple of the missing cleric, and once they found the penanggalen and the manananggal they made that conclusion.
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So, maybe I'm just missing something here, but the PCs are about to enter Iris Hill. There's no way they're going to walk up to the front door, so they're going to face "...a 10-foot tall hedge..." that was created using Plant Growth.
In the description of Plant Growth, it notes that "speed drops to 5 feet".
So pretty much, "The PCs can just walk through the hedge anywhere they feel like it, but it takes them a few rounds to do it."
Seems like Lowls was more insane than anyone thought if he believed that hedge was going to keep anyone out...
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According to Nemira's Projection ability, "she retains the same statistics as her physical self with the following changes..."
Does that mean the party has to fight an incorporeal creature with DR 10/Lawful?
My group also just encountered Nemira for the first time, and yes, I ran her with the DR in her projection form. The group (of 5, with 2 pure spellcasters, and one monk/kineticist hybrid) managed to take the projection out in about 7-8 rounds, once I had the Changeling Clawfighter (who is a ranger with Aberrations as a favored enemy) make a knowledge check to work out she probably needed Lawful to get around the DR. The Warpriest now has a couple of Align Weapons memorised, instead of just one.
Also, having the kineticist able to apply energy damage to unarmed strikes, and having two full spellcasters putting out energy damage (mostly fire, some magic missile) sure helped.
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According to Nemira's Projection ability, "she retains the same statistics as her physical self with the following changes..."
Does that mean the party has to fight an incorporeal creature with DR 10/Lawful?
I ran it that way, and other than the bloodrager the melee characters felt... utterly useless, which they were, since it's effectively a DR 20 against 6th level PCs.
Doesn't seem very nice to remove entire classes from a fight. How did other people manage it?
I did asume the same, but my players did a marvelous job on this one.
Our bard hid away and used alter self to give herself the appearance of Hasorton Lowls at the age of 5
As she stepped in front of Nemira and called out to his "mother", i decided that Nemira is so shocked and confused by this that she lost her concentration which ended her projection ability.
According to Nemira's Projection ability, "she retains the same statistics as her physical self with the following changes..."
Does that mean the party has to fight an incorporeal creature with DR 10/Lawful?
I ran it that way, and other than the bloodrager the melee characters felt... utterly useless, which they were, since it's effectively a DR 20 against 6th level PCs.
Doesn't seem very nice to remove entire classes from a fight. How did other people manage it?
I did asume the same, but my players did a marvelous job on this one.
Our bard hid away and used alter self to give herself the appearance of Hasorton Lowls at the age of 5
As she stepped in front of Nemira and called out to his "mother", i decided that Nemira is so shocked and confused by this that she lost her concentration which ended her projection ability.
OK... that was utterly brilliant! I love it!
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Just wondering, how have people directed the PCs towards the Grotto of the Witch? It seems a little bit out of the way, considering that the party has arrived in Thrushmoor, and Winter will probably suggest that they accompany her when she goes to visit the Sleepless Building.
They're supposed to go straight to the Sleepless Building. Once there, Cesadia suggests the grotto as the PCs' very first course of action:
Cesadia is eager to address the town’s problems, but knows she needs help. In order to test out the PCs and have them assist calming Thrushmoor, Cesadia asks them to follow up on Toli Remsatter’s rumors (see area A below).
So it's as simple as, "Go to the Sleepless Building, get sent to the Grotto."
But keep thinking that way -- there are indeed places in the book (Fort Hailcourse) where the PCs' approach isn't as telegraphed.
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Huh. Guess I didn't see that.Just wondering, how have people directed the PCs towards the Grotto of the Witch? It seems a little bit out of the way, considering that the party has arrived in Thrushmoor, and Winter will probably suggest that they accompany her when she goes to visit the Sleepless Building.They're supposed to go straight to the Sleepless Building. Once there, Cesadia suggests the grotto as the PCs' very first course of action:
Cesadia is eager to address the town’s problems, but knows she needs help. In order to test out the PCs and have them assist calming Thrushmoor, Cesadia asks them to follow up on Toli Remsatter’s rumors (see area A below).So it's as simple as, "Go to the Sleepless Building, get sent to the Grotto."
But keep thinking that way -- there are indeed places in the book (Fort Hailcourse) where the PCs' approach isn't as telegraphed.
Well, it's helpfully at the end of the entire section on her.
I think the whole Strange Aeons AP needs a "GM Cliff's Notes" somewhere where you can find all the stuff that's critical to PCs, but hidden across multiple books (What, exactly, was Lowl's timeline? Why SHOULD the PCs go to Fort Hailcourse? Etc...)