Tonight we came across a monster (can't remember the name) that said "cards that affect barriers affect this card." One of our group members thought that I could use Shardra's power "When you attempt a check to defeat a barrier, you may use your knowledge skill instead of the listed skill," which raised an interesting question about whether role cards count as cards or if that would strictly be using a power and not a card. I think this idea has been addressed before, but I couldn't find the thread.
Thoughts?
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I would say yes. Most of the discussion I recall related to this has been about whether you are "playing" your character card when you use a power on it. But in your case it isn't about playing a card, just whether a card is a card.
I would say yes. Most of the discussion I recall related to this has been about whether you are "playing" your character card when you use a power on it. But in your case out isn't about playing a card, just whether a card is a card.
Thanks for the fast response/explanation Hawkmoon!
I would consider it as an card that is in the play all the time. Something that is played during the setup.
Since characters are listed in the Golden Rule hierarchy of card types, character and role cards are definitely cards.
I don't think you every "play" these cards though. That doesn't make sense to me, given the rules of the game.
Since characters are listed in the Golden Rule hierarchy of card types, character and role cards are definitely cards.
I don't think you every "play" these cards though. That doesn't make sense to me, given the rules of the game.
If you are activating the text on a card you are playing it
Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card. Activating a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.
If a power says using it counts as playing a boon, it counts as playing a card.
Character cards are cards, character cards are not played when you activate powers on them (if they were, you could only use one power on your character per check, which we know is wrong).
Ah, but you aren't. See this comment from Vic. Thought, I admit, this might be a spot where things have evolved. And probably where they continue to be evolving.
Chief Technical Officer
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Cards are cards. (And if it ever matters, PFSACG Adventure Paths, adventures, and scenarios are cards too.)
As of MM, playing a card means using a power on that card by performing an action with that card that is specified by the card itself. Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.
When activating a power on your character card, you're not performing an action with your character card (revealing, discarding, etc.), and your character card is not displayed (you "place" it on the table during setup), so you're not "playing" your character card. (Unless, of course, the power specifically says that using it counts as playing a card.)
MM also adds the following statements about character powers: "Unless a character power says 'you may,' it is active whenever it is appropriate" and "You may use multiple different character powers during one check or step."
In regards to the change to displayed cards, is this meant to make displayed spells such as divine fortune, righteousness, and cloud spells much less useful to pure casters?
While divine fortune still has use outside of combat, casters (especially if you are playing a bard, wizard, or sorcerer in OP) being unable to buff their combat checks with cloud spells seems like a pretty big change.
This also seems to hit righteousness pretty significantly. Zarlova especially feels the pain as she now has no real use for the spell since it was ruled that you can't use the "recharge instead of discard when taking damage" power unless you first use the "add 1d6 to your combat checks" power.
I'm not sure Vic is saying that. Vic said "Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it." Some of the displayed spells are optional, some aren't. Incendiary Cloud, for example, says to add 2d4 and the Fire trait. It doesn't say "MAY". So you aren't "choosing" to activate it, it is simply active. Likewise for cards like Strength, Speed/Agility, Glibness/Eloquence. Once they are displayed, you don't choose to activate them.
Cards like Rage though, require you to make a choice to activate it. Thus, you are playing Rage every time you gain the benefit of it.
So, if a displayed spells says you "may" use it or requires you to perform an action to gain its benefit, then you are choosing to activate it. Otherwise, you aren't choosing to activate it.
That makes sense. So, in effect, the "one card of each type" rule only applies when you choose to play a card, not when an action is required.
How then, does this affect the Blessing of Pharasma? I've always played it as displayed spells didn't let Pharasma add 2 dice unless the display action took place during the check being attempted. I'm assuming that now Pharasma will add 2 dice regardless of when the display action took place.
Pharasma cares about whether or not a spell was played, it does not stipulate it must be played from your hand. Using Hawkmoon's examples, it doesn't count for static bumps like Brilliance or Sagacity but does count for activated powers like Rage.
It depends. Pharasma says you add 2 dice to a check on which a spell was played. A displayed spells counts as played when you display it and when you choose to activate its power.
Incendiary Cloud: (at least the physical version because the app version is different) you can never get 2 dice from Pharasma for Incendiary Cloud. You display it "When a character encounters a bane" so it is never displayed on the check. And it is one of those ones you don't choose to activate, you just get the bonus, so you aren't playing it on the check by choosing to activate it.
Eloquence: If you display Eloquence during the Charisma check, then you have played it on that check, you'd get 2 dice. If you had displayed it earlier (say at the very start of your turn), then since you don't have to choose to activate it, it is just always active once displayed, you aren't playing it when you get the effect, so it wouldn't give you 2 dice.
Rage: You play Rage when you display it, and when you choose to activate it. So if you displayed Rage on that Strength check, you'd get 2 dice. If you displayed it at the start of the turn but during this Strength check choose to bury 1 card to activate Rage, you'd get 2 dice.
EDIT: Ninja'd by skizzerz
Thanks, guys. It looks like Hawk and I are on the same page here.
When activating a power on your character card, you're not performing an action with your character card (revealing, discarding, etc.), and your character card is not displayed (you "place" it on the table during setup), so you're not "playing" your character card. (Unless, of course, the power specifically says that using it counts as playing a card.)
Ah okay, so it is my understanding from this statement that Vampire does not require you to pay the recharge cost to use character powers, unless that character power specifically says it counts as playing a card. (Like a caster's Generic Attack Spell power)
Vampire
Immune to Mental and Poison.
While acting, before any character plays a card, that character recharges a card.
That quote from Vic references the Mummy's Mask rules, which were the newest rules at the time.
Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.
The wording changed with the Core Rulebook
Choosing to activate a power on a character or on a displayed card also counts as playing that card.
I don't think there was a subsequent post in the forums about this, but the change in wording seems to indicate a change in intent.
Yup. With Core rules you gotta recharge a card for Vampire for each character power used, since using a character power now counts as playing your character card.
I think there may have been a post about this but was probably buried in a thread about Core rule changes or about a scenario in which Vampire appears rather than a thread about Vampire itself. In any case it’s in another spot now so should be hopefully easier to search ;)
Oh alright then. Thanks for clearing that up.
And because it's "while acting" (a while loop), each and every time a card is played or character power used, the cost is incurred.