|
So, ever since looking at the Deliquescent Gloves I've been having a hell of time figuring out how they work when I use them for the touch attack. I hope I just missed a simple rule somewhere and this isn't gonna be a drawn out headache.
Basically - do I treat them as natural weapons? manufactured weapons? something else? Do I get one for each glove or did I miss some rule on how many touch attacks I can get a turn?
|
The wearer’s melee touch attacks with that hand deal 1d6 points of acid damage. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.
Basically whenever you would normally make a Touch Attack (usually though a spell or some other ability) you would add the 1d6. Touch Attacks are standard actions unless stated otherwise.
Touch Attacks are a type of attack, not a type of weapon.
Basically whenever you would normally make a Touch Attack (usually though a spell or some other ability) you would add the 1d6. Touch Attacks are standard actions unless stated otherwise.Touch Attacks are a type of attack, not a type of weapon.
Just a clarification. Touch attacks are not a standard action. Touch attacks are simply an attack (which your second paragraph notes). You can use a touch attack any time you'd normally be able to use an attack (assuming you threaten with the touch attack that includes AoO's).
So as a standard action, as an attack during part of a full attack, as an AoO if your touch attacks threaten, with two-weapon fighting, etc.
|
|
Basically whenever you would normally make a Touch Attack (usually though a spell or some other ability) you would add the 1d6. Touch Attacks are standard actions unless stated otherwise.Touch Attacks are a type of attack, not a type of weapon.
Just a clarification. Touch attacks are not a standard action. Touch attacks are simply an attack (which your second paragraph notes). You can use a touch attack any time you'd normally be able to use an attack (assuming you threaten with the touch attack that includes AoO's).
So as a standard action, as an attack during part of a full attack, as an AoO if your touch attacks threaten, with two-weapon fighting, etc.
No, not really.
You can't use a touch attack as a part of a full attack or an AoO because your TA doesn't threaten. If you're holding a charge of a spell then you can but you can't for example substitute your full attacks just to poke people with the glove.
That's why I said TA's are usually standard actions because spells and abilites that Rey on touch attacking are standard actions.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Touch attacks are otherwise interchangeable with normal attacks.
If you are holding the charge you threaten, and you can therefore make a touch attack as an AoO or as part of a full attack.
If you have multiple charges (such as chill touch at level 2+) and a high enough BAB you can make multiple attacks as long as you still have charges.
Some creatures have touch attacks that are essentially natural attacks,such as a greater shadow, so they do not gain extra attacks from a high base attack bonus.
So it depends on the circumstances and the specifictouch attack.
You can't use a touch attack as a part of a full attack...
Citation needed. I'm not aware of anything in the rules that states you can make a touch attack only as a standard action, or can only make one touch attack per round, so unless there is something I missed, we go by the default - you may make as many attacks as your BAB/fighting style/feats, etc allows. And since touch attacks are just another choice in the type of attack you can make...
Now in most cases, you wouldn't want to make more than one, as most touch attacks come from a held charge, and most held charges have a count of 1. So after the first hit, there is no reason to continue making touch attacks.
...or an AoO because your TA doesn't threaten.
Right
(assuming you threaten with the touch attack that includes AoO's)
and
...as an AoO if your touch attacks threaten...
|
|
Hmm, I thought there had been a previous discussion about this so I was looking for it but apparently I'm misremembering.
*scratches head*
Okay then, if there's no rules on it then I guess because it's never came because no one ever did because a touch attack by itself does nothing, except get yourself carved up by AoOs since you're not armed if you don't have a spell charge or special ability that uses touch attacks.
What would be the point in doing so with these gloves (they say as part of a touch attack, not that you gain a touch attack*)? You're not armed and doing just 1d6 points of acid damage a round doesn't really outweigh eating an AoO everytime you try it.
*with the wording on creatures that are given special touch attacks leads me to believe that they function like natural attacks when it comes to attacking, rather than on a normal attack progression.
Be something interesting to ask Mark Seifter about.
Wait so you can hold a touch attack? Such as for ranged spellstrike...
If that is so, can you use the touch attack with Overwatch Style?
|
|
Example of a creature with a touch attack as part of their full attack...lamia
And Rysky, I think you can safely say you get a touch attack by the mere fact that you are wielding a touch weapon that has an effect.(In this case your hand does 1d6 acid damage on a touch attack)
Also, you could be wielding a weapon in your other hand. This would mean you are armed even if the attack you make is not with a weapon that wouldn't let you be considered armed if it was the only weapon you had.
|
|
Example of a creature with a touch attack as part of their full attack...lamia
And Rysky, I think you can safely say you get a touch attack by the mere fact that you are wielding a touch weapon that has an effect.(In this case your hand does 1d6 acid damage on a touch attack)
A Lamia has a special touch attack as well as two claw attacks that don't have the -5 penalty for being secondary attacks when used in conjunction with manufactured weapons, which leads me to believe touch attacks function more like Natural Attacks.
EDIT: actually I misread the attack block but it still supports my thoughts, the dagger is made using a full BaB but the touch and claws all the the -5 for being secondary. So in that case you could take your full attack and then make a touch attack at the end with a -5.
Eh, maybe, I still believe they just modify touch attacks you have, rather than giving you one though.
|
|
Also, you could be wielding a weapon in your other hand. This would mean you are armed even if the attack you make is not with a weapon that wouldn't let you be considered armed if it was the only weapon you had.
Um, no. That definitely doesn't work for the purpose of being "armed" in consideration for whether you provoke an AoO.
It doesn't matter if your holding a weapon in your off hand, the only thing that matters is what you're making the attack with, not what else you're holding.
This seems like an important question for folks with Sneak Attack. Even if you can't use iterative attacks I'd kind of expect that you could make an extra attack due to Haste though (as with a natural weapon)
Wait so you can hold a touch attack? Such as for ranged spellstrike...
If that is so, can you use the touch attack with Overwatch Style?
Not ranged touch attacks I believe, melee touch attacks can be held though.
|
|
Also, you could be wielding a weapon in your other hand. This would mean you are armed even if the attack you make is not with a weapon that wouldn't let you be considered armed if it was the only weapon you had.Um, no. That definitely doesn't work for the purpose of being "armed" in consideration for whether you provoke an AoO.
It doesn't matter if your holding a weapon in your off hand, the only thing that matters is what you're making the attack with, not what else you're holding.
I reread the rules, and I agree with you here.
|
|
I reread the rules, and I agree with you here.Also, you could be wielding a weapon in your other hand. This would mean you are armed even if the attack you make is not with a weapon that wouldn't let you be considered armed if it was the only weapon you had.Um, no. That definitely doesn't work for the purpose of being "armed" in consideration for whether you provoke an AoO.
It doesn't matter if your holding a weapon in your off hand, the only thing that matters is what you're making the attack with, not what else you're holding.
^w^
|
|
Example of a creature with a touch attack as part of their full attack...lamia
And Rysky, I think you can safely say you get a touch attack by the mere fact that you are wielding a touch weapon that has an effect.(In this case your hand does 1d6 acid damage on a touch attack)
A Lamia has a special touch attack as well as two claw attacks
that don't have the -5 penalty for being secondary attacks when used in conjunction with manufactured weapons,which leads me to believe touch attacks function more like Natural Attacks.EDIT: actually I misread the attack block but it still supports my thoughts, the dagger is made using a full BaB but the touch and claws all the the -5 for being secondary. So in that case you could take your full attack and then make a touch attack at the end with a -5.
Eh, maybe, I still believe they just modify touch attacks you have, rather than giving you one though.
Touch attacks do not function as natural attacks by definition. The Lamia's attack is a natural attack. But a wizards touch attack from a spell is not a natural attack. The Warlock's piercing bolts ability as well just merely converts an attack into a touch attack.
Basically, a touch attack is a simple concept. It is an attribute any attack may have. It merely clues you into the fact that the attack ignores armor. There are several abilities in this game which just merely give your attack the attribute of touch. Overthinking it beyond that may cause issues.
|
|
This seems like an important question for folks with Sneak Attack. Even if you can't use iterative attacks I'd kind of expect that you could make an extra attack due to Haste though (as with a natural weapon)
Fun things with haste... you choose the attack that gets doubled. Whether it is a wraith with its touch attack, a rogue with a dagger, a lamia with its touch wisdom drain attack. So, yes, no matter what kind of attack it is you get another attack.
<NOTE: Due to the wording of haste... a monk could get an extra punch but a fighter could not get another punch. As an unarmed strike is not a manufactured weapo,n nor is it a natural weapon, unless you are a monk. I would suggest ignoring this oddity, though>
I think I spot a possible cause for some of the confusion.
You need something that grants you a touch attack. A touch attack is not a discrete thing. It is a mechanic to describe how another thing is applied.
Be that the held charge on a spell, a corrupting touch or whatever - you need something that your touch attack applies.
So you can hold the charge on a spell, but you can't hold a 'touch attack'.
Edit: so the action of a touch attack is usually defined by the ability granting the touch attack, not by the touch attack itself, but if it isn't otherwise clear it is just an attack, like any other (except, you know, bypassing armour and stuff :))
Touch attacks are about how an attack resolves, not how it is delivered.
Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.
For example, many tech weapons (such as laser pistols) resolve as touch attacks, at all ranges.
You can make full attacks with such weapons as you would any other weapon, those attacks are all touch attacks.Most monsters that get touch attacks get a single one as part of some special natural attack (such as a ghost's corrupting touch).
Since they are natural attacks, the monster must be hasted to get multiple of them (or be a really wierd monk build with a very specific feat).
Some such attacks specify once a round to avoid this.
For most spells, a successful touch attack discharges the spell. However, since you can hold a charge, if you have iterative attacks, you could keep swinging if you miss on the first (if you miss with say a Harm on the free attack given as part of the spell, then proceed to wiff the first attack of the round thereafter).
Note that unless you have some special ability saying otherwise, your touch attack itself would do no damage, merely allow the spell to go off.
As far as the gloves go, the issue is that they do not grant a touch attack themselves, it falls into that lovely gray area of referencing a rule that never existed...
The best argument for it being an attack rather than a standard action to deliver a touch spell is that it can be used as an AOO: you're considered armed. This really shouldn't be possible if a touch is a standard action.