hi i am playing a rogue(core rule book) that is going in to this class and i keep being told this is a bad prestige class. so i thought i would see what others think
the build was not planed out but in the end i want to two weapon fight with long swords
at only a -2 for each witch i can do with magic
i went 4 levels rogue
1 level brawler snakbite
1 level guild devil
the other person keeps saying its bad and that i just need to stay rogue as its better
i like the utility it gives the rogue in the end.
think core rogue is just bad at higher levels with a few acceptations like improved evasion witch i can get with guild devil
i real just want to know 1-5 what people think and if i should just go back to rogue levels
1= all around bad
2= just not as good as rogue
3= flip of a coin
4= is a little better then full rogue but not by much
5= hands down better then full rogue
fill free you tell me why and what i may want to look at
thanks for all your in put
That PrC (Guild/Westcrown Devil) looks like a rogue that sacrifices some (not all) sneak attack for weak spell-like abilities. You also get to use weapon finesse with longswords but eh, whatever.
It's not necessarily a bad trade. Relying too heavily on sneak attack can cause a rogue problems, and not having to get out items to use effects like those SLAs saves some hassle. I don't think I'd go for it but put me down as a 3 by your rating system, it does look doable.
That PrC (Guild/Westcrown Devil) looks like a rogue that sacrifices some (not all) sneak attack for weak spell-like abilities. You also get to use weapon finesse with longswords but eh, whatever.
It's not necessarily a bad trade. Relying too heavily on sneak attack can cause a rogue problems, and not having to get out items to use effects like those SLAs saves some hassle. I don't think I'd go for it but put me down as a 3 by your rating system, it does look doable.
thank you for yo input
Probably a 5 on your rating metric, because literally everything is hands down better than a full core Rogue. Lol.
I kid, I kid.
Trading away some Sneak Attack is good... the less you rely on gimmick BS, the better your character will be.
The Favor Pool is alright, kinda meh, like most Pool features unless you have several Pools that can somewhat interchange (like Ki Arcana). The utility and self-reliance are really nice options to stem from the Favor Pool, though.
It's neat that the PrC can trade away Rogue Talents for continuing spellcasting of certain types, too.
Serious rating of PrC by your given, 1-5 system: 3 or 4, depending how you use it... a solid 5 if you want to specifically use that TWF longsword stuff.
Whatever combination lets you do what you want with your character is always hands down the best choice.
My dude you could PRC into noble scion and it will be better than remaining core rogue any longer than you absolutely have to as far as game influence by nearly any metric you choose is concerned.
Probably a 5 on your rating metric, because literally everything is hands down better than a full core Rogue. Lol.
I kid, I kid.
Trading away some Sneak Attack is good... the less you rely on gimmick BS, the better your character will be.
The Favor Pool is alright, kinda meh, like most Pool features unless you have several Pools that can somewhat interchange (like Ki Arcana). The utility and self-reliance are really nice options to stem from the Favor Pool, though.
It's neat that the PrC can trade away Rogue Talents for continuing spellcasting of certain types, too.
Serious rating of PrC by your given, 1-5 system: 3 or 4, depending how you use it... a solid 5 if you want to specifically use that TWF longsword stuff.
Whatever combination lets you do what you want with your character is always hands down the best choice.
thank you for your input i to really like self-reliance in my builds
My dude you could PRC into noble scion and it will be better than remaining core rogue any longer than you absolutely have to as far as game influence by nearly any metric you choose is concerned.
i hear you i finded core rogue very lacking as well
To be fair, I have built a successful core Rogue... somewhat unconventional... but completely functional.
He was a Strength-based Tengu with a greatsword. Took the Scout archetype to get Sneak Attack on a charge. 2nd level Rogue Talent was the one for Weapon Focus. 3rd level feat was Nature Magic for constant Know Direction and 1/day Purify Food & Water. 4th level Rogue Talent was Wild Magic for Create Water 3/day. 5th level feat was Endurance, because I could finally afford an Agile Mirthal Breastplate (I had the Armor Master trait). After that, I focused some of my Rogue Talents and feats on Dirty Tricks. Iron Will @ 11, never took Power Attack or anything that would penalize my accuracy. Thought about Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique and Vital Strike, but didn't invest in it because I didn't want to rely/invest so much on charging... and the game didn't last long enough for it to matter.
It's absolutely doable. Was I on par with the Half-Orc Fighter? No. Absolutely not... no. But we had ourselves an understanding, and we was flanking-buddies... did God's work, we did.
To be fair, I have built a successful core Rogue... somewhat unconventional... but completely functional.
He was a Strength-based Tengu with a greatsword. Took the Scout archetype to get Sneak Attack on a charge. 2nd level Rogue Talent was the one for Weapon Focus. 3rd level feat was Nature Magic for constant Know Direction and 1/day Purify Food & Water. 4th level Rogue Talent was Wild Magic for Create Water 3/day. 5th level feat was Endurance, because I could finally afford an Agile Mirthal Breastplate (I had the Armor Master trait). After that, I focused some of my Rogue Talents and feats on Dirty Tricks. Iron Will @ 11, never took Power Attack or anything that would penalize my accuracy. Thought about Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique and Vital Strike, but didn't invest in it because I didn't want to rely/invest so much on charging... and the game didn't last long enough for it to matter.
It's absolutely doable. Was I on par with the Half-Orc Fighter? No. Absolutely not... no. But we had ourselves an understanding, and we was flanking-buddies... did God's work, we did.
core rogue is 100% playable. there are many ways to do it but it is lacking compared to other class that's why unchained is a thing
also its nice when you have some one willing to flank with you most games i am in i have be the one active telling people i need them to take that 5 foot step so i can flank next turn.
thank you for your post i will look at this again when i wake up and try to reply to anyone after work tomorrow
thank you again ranking stands at a 3-4
Having SA on the charge, and a WAY better Dex/Initiative, meant that I was often the first one into battle. Big, dumb Urk was always right behind me, though.
Heavy armor slow, hard keep up with bird-man.
But we both established that it was always in our best favor to eliminate targets from the board... so we tag-teamed our targets, consistently. The flanking bonus greatly helped me, even moreso with my Dirty Tricks (+4 instead of +2), I needed it way more than Urk did. And, as an added bonus, teamwork made it so I could reliably get Sneak Attack damage... all the time, pretty much every time.
No gimmicks required, whatsoever, just solid a battle buddy.
I think you should go back to brawler, i think you should go down the grapple chain from brawler and take throat slicer. Then you can actually ghost people from the shadows.
Surprise round: Grapple the flat footed target
First initiative round: Greater grapple as a move action to pin the target, Standard action coup de grace with the added sneak attack damage pretty much guaranteeing nothing makes the fort save.
Having SA on the charge, and a WAY better Dex/Initiative, meant that I was often the first one into battle. Big, dumb Urk was always right behind me, though.
Heavy armor slow, hard keep up with bird-man.
But we both established that it was always in our best favor to eliminate targets from the board... so we tag-teamed our targets, consistently. The flanking bonus greatly helped me, even moreso with my Dirty Tricks (+4 instead of +2), I needed it way more than Urk did. And, as an added bonus, teamwork made it so I could reliably get Sneak Attack damage... all the time, pretty much every time.
No gimmicks required, whatsoever, just solid a battle buddy.
Rogue is a lot like teamwork feats in that they can be of really above average effectiveness but require party cooperation and careful choices.
I've about got a local table ready to agree to a "thieves guild" low magic (3/4 casters only) campaign with an emphasis on teamwork feats
Having SA on the charge, and a WAY better Dex/Initiative, meant that I was often the first one into battle. Big, dumb Urk was always right behind me, though.
Heavy armor slow, hard keep up with bird-man.
But we both established that it was always in our best favor to eliminate targets from the board... so we tag-teamed our targets, consistently. The flanking bonus greatly helped me, even moreso with my Dirty Tricks (+4 instead of +2), I needed it way more than Urk did. And, as an added bonus, teamwork made it so I could reliably get Sneak Attack damage... all the time, pretty much every time.
No gimmicks required, whatsoever, just solid a battle buddy.
Rogue is a lot like teamwork feats in that they can be of really above average effectiveness but require party cooperation and careful choices.
I've about got a local table ready to agree to a "thieves guild" low magic (3/4 casters only) campaign with an emphasis on teamwork feats
Ooh, dibs on Monster Tactician! Lol.
i will look at brawler again. i can only take feats from core but can grab class from any where tho i love teamwork feats as well, hunter is so fun