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So just picked up Tup for free RPG day, and I've got a question
'Display this card to move, then shuffle it into your location deck. You may not play this card during an encounter'
'When you would banish this card from a location deck, you may add it to Tup's hand instead.'
Being a cohort, there is no check to aquire.
My question is, when you encounter Deliverance, what happens?
My guess is, that you effectively fail to aquire Deliverance as there is no way to succeed), it is banished and thus goes to Tup's hand, but that was a guess as I don't believe that there's been a card yet that doesn't have a check to aquire in a location deck, at least not without a scenario rule to protect it.
A small side question - do dead characters have hands? If Tup is dead, can deliverance go to his hand and then allow his body to ride off to another location?
The way I read the text you've posted, you only put Deliverance in your hand if you banish it from a location deck. Since I can't think of any edge cases where a dead character couldn't banish cards from a location deck, Deliverance couldn't end up in Tup's hand once he's dead.
However, that power being on the cohort itself makes Deliverance pretty safe from being removed from the game, right? If *anyone* banishes Deliverance, it goes into their hand, and thus isn't banished. If the game ends, you return cards from the location deck back to the box, which also isn't banishing, so Deliverance is available for Tup to take right back.
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This FAQ entry may help. Vic will likely have comments about the rest of your questions next week.
EDIT: Hawkmoon'd.
Deliverance is Tup's sheep cohort. He has two powers:
'Display this card to move, then shuffle it into your location deck. You may not play this card during an encounter''When you would banish this card from a location deck, you may add it to Tup's hand instead.'
Is it just me, or there seem to be a couple of oddities with this card?
1) Maybe I'm missing some future context from MM (or Tup's powers) but while would you display the sheep in the first place? Seems to me the same purpose would be achieved by "Shuffle this card into your deck to move..." ?
2) If I'm reading the WotR FAQs correctly, Deliverance's second power will never come into effect:
- Cohorts are automatically acquired so you'll never banish it by failing to acquire it
- When you close location Deck, you first encounter any Cohorts within; per the above rule, you again auto-acquire them, so again - no banish
As for Dave Riley's comment that dead characters can't banish cards from locations: the Cohort specifically states "When YOU would banish... put it into TUP's hand". I.e. it doesn't matter which player would banish Deliverence - they just put it into Tup's hand
Missed the edit window! I meant I couldn't think of any instances where a dead character COULD banish cards from a location deck.
1) Maybe I'm missing some future context from MM (or Tup's powers) but while would you display the sheep in the first place? Seems to me the same purpose would be achieved by "Shuffle this card into your deck to move..." ?
I think it's so Deliverance ends up in the location deck you move to, not the one you're coming from. I'm not sure if there's a substantive difference having it being "display," versus "reveal," but maybe it's to circumvent locations (or effects) that would have you discard/bury/recharge a card when you move to them.
]I think it's so Deliverance ends up in the location deck you move to, not the one you're coming from. I'm not sure if there's a substantive difference having it being "display," versus "reveal," but maybe it's to circumvent locations (or effects) that would have you discard/bury/recharge a card when you move to them.
I would rather guess it's to circumvent the 'cards don't have memories" etc, i.e. you shouldn't have to remember you've revealed Deliverance so you can shuffle after the move.
At any rate, lol, I totally misread - I thought Deliverence shuffles into your deck, not into location deck, so this totally invalidates my first question.
OTOH, this makes it even more obvious that the second power is supposed to work in concert with closing a location in which Deliverance is shuffled - which is still impossible by RAW.
Closing a location is not the only thing that can banish cards from location decks, so this power covers for those other cases.
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You guys are way overthinking all of this.
There is a card that comes with Tup that states "These cards use the cohort rules introduced in the Wrath of the Righteous set." You start with Deliverance in addition to your hand then follow standard cohort rules. When you display it to move, you shuffle it into your location deck.
Cohorts are automatically acquired when encountered.
When it is banished from a location deck, you may add it to Tup's hand instead.
Very straightforward.
When it is banished from a location deck, you may add it to Tup's hand instead.
Very straightforward.
I don't argue with it being straigthforward, but that's just the thing - I can't think off the top of my head of an instance, where you *would* banish the cohort from a location deck.
The closest I can come up with is the RotR's Here Comes the Flood and Sandpoint Under Siege scenario powers, but I didn't consider them originally, because in my head in these cases it's 'the scenario' that banishes card, not 'you' (in the sense of 'the active player')
(Come to think of it, HCtF doesn't even banish cards but rather stucks them under Black Magga, and then doesn't say what happens to those cards after the scenario - although it's probably safe to assume it 'returns them to the box' rather than 'banish' them)
When you permanently close a location the remaining cards are banished.
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When you permanently close a location the remaining cards are banished.That.
But as Longshot has pointed out, we have this FAQ, which indicates that when you close a location, you encounter the cohorts before you would banish them.
Doesn't the Season of the Runelords 2-2D banish cards from location decks? I'd imagine the power is to safe guard against that kind of things, and far worse things we haven't seen.
All I was saying is that the mechanics are fairly simple. If Deliverance is encountered, he's acquired. If somehow it is to be banished, it may return to Tup's hand.
Nobody is disputing that. Longshot's confusion came from why the second power exists at all, because it is seemingly superfluous assuming the only thing that banishes cards from a location is closing it (the rulebook states that on closing you first encounter any cohorts in the deck before banishing the cards). We then replied stating that the power is a safety net against other (non-closing) effects that banish cards from the location deck, eg assuming that closing is the only thing that can banish a cohort from a location deck is a bad assumption. I do not think at any point in time was one unsure of how the powers actually worked.
It's perhaps worth note that there is a significant lead time from when cards are designed to when they arrive in your hands.
It's perhaps worth note that there is a significant lead time from when cards are designed to when they arrive in your hands.
Actually, that was my assumption.
Right now, as skizzers mentioned, the second power IS a safety net against outlier effect that banish cards from decks.
I do have the impression however, that the intent was that other players can safely close Locations where Tup's sheep is and when they do - the sheep goes back to Tup. If that is the case - some FAQ will be needed.
Allows you to move again between two explorations for example
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Allows you to move again between two explorations for example
Display this card to move, then shuffle it into your location deck. You may not play this card during an encounter.
At any point during your turn, except during an encounter, that you are able to move, you may use Deliverance. Once you move, you then shuffle him into your location deck.
So, between explores, like Frencois stated or after you've closed a location or at the end of your turn.
You can also play Deliverance to move on someone else's turn (again just not during an encounter). There are no rules that restrict moving to your turn only.
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When you start the game, you draw your starting cards based on the number from your character card.
Yes
Then you add the Cohort to your hand.
Yes
At the end of your first turn, are you then required to discard down to you starting number or do you get to keep the extra card (cohort) until you maybe use it.
After you take your first turn, cohorts count like any other card in your hand, so if you haven't used any cards that turn, you'd have to discard down to your hand size.
We've never played that getting to your initial starting location is considered a move. Is that correct?
Correct, you don't have to move to your first location, you start the game there.
If not, then Deliverance would move immediately into that first location where Tup is, right?
If you used him before your first turn to move he would, but he doesn't do anything unless you use him. You don't HAVE to use him to move, he gives you the ability to move when you normally wouldn't be able to.
Now Deliverance kind of becomes a liability since he's one more card to be cleared in the deck, a free acquire, but another card nonetheless.
Basically yeah, when he's in a location deck he's another card to be encountered.
If Tup moves and someone else encounters Deliverance, he automatically goes to their hand, right, until they look to move at which point Deliverance is displayed and then shuffles into the next deck.
Correct, but again he's only used when you want to move at a time besides your normal move step every turn.
If someone who isn't Tup encounters Deliverance from a location deck, does the character encountering him get him or does Tup get him back?
The character who encounters it gets it.
The character who encounters it gets it.
Thanks!