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Isn't that what Ranger is for.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like point buy.
And I doubt very much my Medium (or Oracle, but especially the Medium) would be as fun on a 10-15 point buy. But it can be done.
For that matter, isn't that what elves and halflings are for? +2 Dex for a racial modifier? That's 3 points spent for Dex to qualify. And 5 points for Strength gives you a 14, which is enough for Power Attack and a +2 to hit and damage.
Hell, even if you went with a Human, you could go 7 points into Dex, 5 points into Strength, 3 points into Intelligence, and take a penalty to Charisma and/or Wisdom to slightly boost Constitution. You end up with a Str 16 Dex 15 Fighter or Barbarian.
That also ignores the fact you could spend 5 points in Dexterity and at 4th level put your +1 to a stat to Dexterity and qualify for two-weapon fighting at that time. Given that low level characters have difficulties hitting anyway, do you really want to take a -2 to hit with two weapons? Especially as you'll probably Power Attack and have another -1 to hit?
Again. If you as a GM want to let players have 25-poitn builds? Go ahead!
It is why I factored out the math. 25-point builds is +1 to all stats. Seriously. Look for yourself. A "normal" build is 15/14/13/12/10/8. That's a simple 15-points. Adding +1 to each stat is 16/15/14/13/11/9. It's 10 points more. Thus any monster can be adjusted for a 25-point build with a simple +1 to each stat (assuming they use all 6 stats).
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First, as others have stated, this is a play style and not a system mechanics issue.
With a low point buy...some of the most MAD builds just won't be possible (like if you are trying to do Two Weapon Fighting but need points somewhere other than Dexterity or Eldritch Heritage but need points somewhere other than Charisma).
Really? "Won't be possible?"
Str-based rangers and slayers can pull off Two-Weapon Fighting with only a modest Dex (Toothy half-orc to add a bite as well; orc double axe as the weapon): 17 Str (+2 race), 12 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 13 Wis, 8 Cha; +1 Str at 4th, +1 Wis at 8th.
Fighter with Eldritch Heritage: human (Focused Study) 13 Str, 16 Dex (+2 race), 12 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 13 Cha, Skill Focus (whatever skill is required for the bloodline), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse; +1 Dex at 4th to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th. Probably dual kukris with Piranha Strike; invest in the agile weapon ability.
Heck, you can even have a TWF sword-and-shield paladin: human 14 Str, 16 Dex (+2 race), 12 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Cha, Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting; +1 Dex at either 4th or 8th, depending on when you want to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (7th or 9th), all other advances in Cha. The biggest issue is that paladins are feat and skill starved, not that they "can't" have a high Dex.
Some trade-offs need to be made, but these are inherent when dealing with system constraints to realize a concept: To gain or enhance certain capabilities may preclude or weaken other capabilities.
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It is why I factored out the math. 25-point builds is +1 to all stats. Seriously. Look for yourself. A "normal" build is 15/14/13/12/10/8. That's a simple 15-points. Adding +1 to each stat is 16/15/14/13/11/9. It's 10 points more. Thus any monster can be adjusted for a 25-point build with a simple +1 to each stat (assuming they use all 6 stats).
Your theory seems correct for NPCs and monsters with PC class levels. However not everything uses the standard array. NPC classes use a smaller array, a 10 point buy I believe. And monsters are built with three 10s and three 11s for stats, typically applying 10s to physical and 11 to mental, if memory serves me right. This is why if you advance a monster with class levels you adjust their stats to represent a standard array.
I'm curious how you accounted for these in you balancing method. Not trying to poke holes necessarily but I am actually quite intrigued and curious if such things were factored. The flat stat bonus, considering enemies often have odd numbers even a +1 can make a difference, intrigues me as a way to slightly balance foes without taking away the parties strength in higher specialization.
The relevance is this.
All of the monsters in the Bestiary are designed assuming they are fighting characters built using 15-point builds. James Jacobs confirmed this.
Almost every NPC in the book is built on a 15-point build or lower with the exceptions noted to be +1 CR to compensate for being a higher point build.
So if you are allowing players to use a 25-point build, they are facing monsters that are weaker. You can either increase the CR of encounters by +1, or you can compensate by adding +1 to each stat for the monsters and NPCs.
It does not matter that a player mix-maxed, putting 21 points into Strength so he could have a starting Strength of 21 after Racial Modifiers, minimized Wisdom, Charisma, and Intelligence to 7, dropped Dexterity to 9, and then boosted Constitution to 18. That character would have the same chance against foes as someone built more realistically, especially as he could be charmed or hit by other Will-save spells.
And yes, it is shown in the rules that a 25-point build is a +1 to CR. Just look at what boosts CR for villains such as Karzoug or the like - that 25-point build is one factor increasing CR.
My little fix here (ie, +1 to each stat) allows you to have PCs with a 25-point build and still have enemies that can face those PCs and be a challenge.
Edit: Also, 95% of NPCs in the game with a 15-point build are based on the 15/14/13/12/10/8 build. Compensating them with +1 makes them 25-point builds. Sometimes they get their racial modifiers in areas that don't optimize the characters... but hey, there's no reason they have to be optimized.
NPC class NPCs have a 3 point array of 13/12/11/10/9/8. Human NPCs tend to make that even worse by adding their +2 to the 8 rather than the 13.
What it does is take what isn't actually your primary stat and force you to make it your highest to qualify for what you want to do. You'll also have to keep putting your stat boosts (and/or buying stat boosters) into Dex, neglecting strength to keep qualifying for the rest of the TWF line.
Two points:
1) This is what happens when you basically turn a TWF character into a SAD character, attempting to get the highest Dex possible at the expense of other ability scores (play style). This is not "forced" on a player (unless it is central to the concept, such as the Piranha Strike/agile weapon fighter); a Str-based ranger/slayer or a paladin will be investing primarily in Str or Cha, respectively.
2) You only need a 17 Dex to qualify for every feat in the TWF chain other than Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. And Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is, mechanically, not that great; Critical Focus (and the critical feats), Two-Weapon Rend, and even Cleaving Finish are all better choices in most cases (add Shield Mastery and Bashing Finish for a weapon/shield bash character).
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This is super simple.
Paizo used 15 pt buy because they mistakenly calculated that it was an accurate reflection of 4d6 drop 1.
Question one: Do you have any references for your assertion?
Mark Seifter proved it wasn't, joined the company, and PFS uses 20.
Question two: Are you aware that the above statement implies that Mark Seifter joining Paizo is the reason why PFS is at 20 point buy?
PFS has been 20 point buy for its entire existence, even when it was D&D 3.5 during season 0. Mark Seifter did not join the company until several years after the start of PFS. Just a point of clarification.
EDIT: removed unnecessary statement.
First, as others have stated, this is a play style and not a system mechanics issue.
With a low point buy...some of the most MAD builds just won't be possible (like if you are trying to do Two Weapon Fighting but need points somewhere other than Dexterity or Eldritch Heritage but need points somewhere other than Charisma).Really? "Won't be possible?"
Str-based rangers and slayers can pull off Two-Weapon Fighting with only a modest Dex (Toothy half-orc to add a bite as well; orc double axe as the weapon): 17 Str (+2 race), 12 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 13 Wis, 8 Cha; +1 Str at 4th, +1 Wis at 8th.
Fighter with Eldritch Heritage: human (Focused Study) 13 Str, 16 Dex (+2 race), 12 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 13 Cha, Skill Focus (whatever skill is required for the bloodline), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse; +1 Dex at 4th to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th. Probably dual kukris with Piranha Strike; invest in the agile weapon ability.
{. . .}
You're missing the point. As you describe the options, the 15 point buy is funneling the more MAD character concepts down into a few builds that have a lesser chance to fit with their concepts; the trade-offs get a good bit worse at 15 point buy than at 20 point buy, and this is worse than the gap between 20 point buy and 25 point buy, both due to diminishing returns in the point buy and due to the thresholds for certain feats, spellcasting, etc. being inconveniently high but not going up with the point buy level.
When both PFS and some of the AP developers are going with 20 point buy, and many builds HAVE to dump (and sometimes hard-dump) just to work on 15 point buy, it's time to conclude that 15 point buy was a bit too low (and make future APs be pre-adjusted for 20 point buy).
If you want to keep people from just min-maxing harder with 20 point buy, I could even get on board with telling people to create characters first with 15 point buy, but then they are awarded 5 more points that must be used on bringing up the lowest 1 to 3 ability scores (with anything that was dumped automatically getting precedence).
Tangent:
Good points, and again, I only critique and question as a sign of respect for a potentially elegant balancing option.
There is precedence within the CR system that not all stat increases to monsters are the same. The associated and non-associated class increases to monsters.
Both include an inherently approximate 12 point buy increase (in a limited way) as well as a character level increase to gain 1 CR. However, a non-associated class, as long as under racial hit dice, gains 2 levels to equal 1 CR. While both gain the same numerical stat increases, applying those increases to the weaker stats is not worth as much of a challenge increase as applying them to the stats that already fit the monster archetype. Therefore, not all stat increases are valued equally.
The BBEG 25 PB +1 CR is both applied in an unlimited way (meaning that those extra ten points can be spent all on the BBEG's primary stat instead of limited in the way of the Monster PC option which specifies +4, +4, +2, +2, -2) and includes a large increase in wealth which again typically is spent in a decently synergistic way.
Now, since a class level by itself to a classed character is a CR increase, we can kinda concluded the following ranking of stat value:
1: Pure points able to be applied unlimited with Synergy
2: Static bonuses applied in a synergistic way
3: Static bonuses applied in a non-synergistic way.
Your proposed system is definitely in the third tier providing the lowest CR value increase. I understand you don't quite want to go full advanced template, but perhaps the system needs to emphasize more value on boosting the creatures inherent synergy with its role? For example with pure classless monsters, giving the stat upgrade to a standard array without a level increase? Not the overall power up of advanced template but certainly a boost.
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It's pretty simple. If you think of an AP like a video game. The point buy is your difficulty setting. Adjust as you see fit.
If you want to keep people from just min-maxing harder with 20 point buy, I could even get on board with telling people to create characters first with 15 point buy, but then they are awarded 5 more points that must be used on bringing up the lowest 1 to 3 ability scores (with anything that was dumped automatically getting precedence).I've long toyed with the idea of replacing the every 4 levels stat boost with an every level +1 point to your point buy.
No real idea how it would turn out.
If you allow advancement beyond the 18 max purchase for 4 points each, it should work out quite nicely. Technically balanced (the maxed out 18 star is still limited to reach a natural score of 23 by level 20) while allowing and encouraging shoring up lower scores. I may steal this idea. It lets characters optimize at level 1 and slowly raise their less primary stats as the game progresses and being more well rounded is rewarded.
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^To round this out, allow fractional ability scores in the initial point buy -- the fraction doesn't do anything by itself, but stacks with fractions added by adding point buy points with level to make whole points (so for instance, spending 6 points on an ability score that has no bonuses or penalties gives you an ability score of 14+1/2, and then when you get another point buy point and put it there you get 15).
Tangent:
Good points, and again, I only critique and question as a sign of respect for a potentially elegant balancing option.There is precedence within the CR system that not all stat increases to monsters are the same. The associated and non-associated class increases to monsters.
Both include an inherently approximate 12 point buy increase (in a limited way) as well as a character level increase to gain 1 CR. However, a non-associated class, as long as under racial hit dice, gains 2 levels to equal 1 CR. While both gain the same numerical stat increases, applying those increases to the weaker stats is not worth as much of a challenge increase as applying them to the stats that already fit the monster archetype. Therefore, not all stat increases are valued equally.
The BBEG 25 PB +1 CR is both applied in an unlimited way (meaning that those extra ten points can be spent all on the BBEG's primary stat instead of limited in the way of the Monster PC option which specifies +4, +4, +2, +2, -2) and includes a large increase in wealth which again typically is spent in a decently synergistic way.
Now, since a class level by itself to a classed character is a CR increase, we can kinda concluded the following ranking of stat value:
1: Pure points able to be applied unlimited with Synergy
2: Static bonuses applied in a synergistic way
3: Static bonuses applied in a non-synergistic way.Your proposed system is definitely in the third tier providing the lowest CR value increase. I understand you don't quite want to go full advanced template, but perhaps the system needs to emphasize more value on boosting the creatures inherent synergy with its role? For example with pure classless monsters, giving the stat upgrade to a standard array without a level increase? Not the overall power up of advanced template but certainly a boost.
I chose +1 to each stat for a couple of reasons.
First is, to be blunt, simplicity. Though as I've mentioned before, in my game I'm adding +3 to each stat because of the high die-rolls. When I chose to go with a 25-point-build for the future Hell's Rebels, it was specifically because +1 to each stat will often not cause a wholescale requirement of rebuilding a character. It may or may not boost saving throws, Dexterity, Skill points, or what have you, because monster stats tend to be even for three stats and odd for the other three.
Second, it saves time. There is a second way to compensate for a 25-point build. You increase the hit dice or class levels of a foe by +1. Don't forget: a 25-point build for Karzoug is part of what gives him a CR increase - the fact he used Wish spells to augment his stats and has multiple embedded magic items boosts that to a total of +2. So you can just increase the hit dice or class levels by one... and then you have to deal with skill points, hit points, feats, and on down the line.
I have heard it argued that a 25-point build is the equivalent to giving players a free Feat - Iron Will, for example. While I don't think it's exactly to that level, the fact CRs are boosted by one for a 25-point build does suggest that line of thought has merit.
Last, there is in fact a method of boosting a monster's stats for an increase of +1 to CR. The Advanced Monster Template. I have to say, for the record: Advanced Monster is not an increase of +1 to CR, but instead is an increase of +2 or more, in my opinion. You are increasing hit points by +2 per hit die, skill points by +2 per hit die, Will, Fortitude, and Reflex Saves by +2, and armor class by +4. (Seriously, Advanced Creature should be split into Lesser Advanced Creature for a +2 to each stat and +1 addition to AC for the +1 to CR, and Greater Advanced Creature for +2 to CR. And even then it's understating the CR boost.)
I found Advanced Creature overbalanced things to the monsters' benefit. This is why I chose to boost stats instead.
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As an aside, for those who insist rolled stats are the best? The GM should have each player roll 4d6 and drop the lowest d6 six times down the line. Each should be written on a white unmarked 3x5 index card. And then they should be put face down and shuffled. The players then choose a random card, without a guarantee of getting what they rolled. Their special dice won't benefit them. Their tricks of the trade in encouraging certain rolls won't benefit them. They could end up with the crappy rolls - and yes, if someone rolled horribly? You keep that in the pile.
I am willing to bet if offered that, knowing there are crap-rolled stats in there, and knowing if your PC dies, you have to create a new character based on those stats? Or that you use a 15-point build? A lot of people will choose that 15-point build.
Or, we can just do what we do.
Honestly, if I come up with some sort of intricate system beyond 4d6 drop the lowest, roll six times, they'd quit.
Besides, no one's getting hurt.
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You're missing the point. As you describe the options, the 15 point buy is funneling the more MAD character concepts down into a few builds that have a lesser chance to fit with their concepts;
At 15 point buy, it's not a matter of "getting the highest DEX possible", it's that getting your DEX high enough to qualify for the TWF feats means it's going to be your high stats. Whether you're trying to be SAD or not. You need that 15 to start. You need a 17 for Improved TWF, preferably at 6th level or soon after. (Barring rangers or others who can bypass prereqs.)
All the suggested arrays had Dex highest just to be able to qualify for the feats. That's the base problem - the prereqs don't scale like most everything else does.
I provided three specific TWF characters, one Str-based, one with Eldritch Heritage, and one weapon-and-shield. Other than a vague "some concepts may be more difficult to realize," none of the "low point buy is too restrictive" camp has given any actual support based on system mechanics for their positions. It's all been feelings and preferences.
Concepts should inform the player which options for ability scores, classes, and feats would be suitable. If the concept is so specific that there is no leeway in choices, then I'd say that the concept is too narrow and probably based on system mechanics (the "build" that is being mentioned) rather than "what type* of character do I want to play."
*- As there are almost always several ways to achieve this; note that "type" is more general than class ("nature priest" could mean cleric with appropriate domains, druid, oracle with a suitable mystery, etc.); even within a specific class choice, there are usually different ways to go about things (a human 16 Str, 15 Dex, 12 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 13 Cha fighter 4/skald 1/dragon disciple 4/fighter +X for a Str-focused TWF character with the Birthmark trait and Double Slice instead of Weapon Finesse; 20 Str, 17 Dex, and Improved TWF at 9th character level).
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that's how life is. not all are born equal. to overcome that is part of life and should reflect in the gameI really don't get the fascination with PB. Just roll the stats. That's how my father did it, that's how I do it, and it worked out pretty well so far.The last time we rolled stats:
"Okay, I have three 18s, a 16 and two 14's. What did you get Neil?""I got a 14, and a couple 10s. And a 9 and two 8s."
"Don't worry. I'll let you carry my stuff."
How the game should be played is by whatever method fits that group the best.
I provided three specific TWF characters, one Str-based, one with Eldritch Heritage, and one weapon-and-shield. Other than a vague "some concepts may be more difficult to realize," none of the "low point buy is too restrictive" camp has given any actual support based on system mechanics for their positions. It's all been feelings and preferences.
Concepts should inform the player which options for ability scores, classes, and feats would be suitable. If the concept is so specific that there is no leeway in choices, then I'd say that the concept is too narrow and probably based on system mechanics (the "build" that is being mentioned) rather than "what type* of character do I want to play."
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In some cases this works out; in some cases it doesn't. For instance, for the Eldritch Heritage example, things get a LOT more difficult when you try to proceed to Improved Eldritch Heritage (which you need in most cases to get the good stuff without being horrifically delayed as with VMC Sorcerer), because the Charisma requirement goes up.
What Type of character and What Build are not entirely tied together, but neither are they completely separate. The system doesn't support some types of characters at all, and that's fine (we shouldn't expect it to support absolutely everything), but low point buy needlessly limits options. Certainly, feel free to select whatever point buy (or even dice rolling) suits the campaign and group best, but I strongly suspect that it wasn't just a roll of the dice that convinced the PFS developers to settle on 20 point buy, which seems like a sweet spot between good potential for character development and reasonable limitation of overall power level.
In some cases this works out; in some cases it doesn't. For instance, for the Eldritch Heritage example, things get a LOT more difficult when you try to proceed to Improved Eldritch Heritage (which you need in most cases to get the good stuff without being horrifically delayed as with VMC Sorcerer), because the Charisma requirement goes up.
And that's tremendously different from a cleric or druid trying to get Improved Eldritch Heritage without hurting spellcasting (need high Wis, just like TWF needs high Dex), how? If anything, the fighter has it slightly easier when it comes to using stat boosters (belt of incredible dexterity and headband of alluring charisma vs. headband of mental prowess (Wis, Cha)) to qualify if necessary.
So your complaint is that in order to do extremely optimized builds, which are not needed in order to effectively play the game, you can only go with very specific stat buys with a 15-point build?
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It just might be easier if the "anti-low point buy" group would just admit they aren't satisfied with playing the equivalent of "just" a professional athlete. They want to play the "greatest of all time" (or at least of their generation): Michael Jordan, Dan Marino, etc.
The thing is, the game (going back to 3.x) is designed with 15 point buy/elite array as the baseline. Having higher starting ability scores skews the baseline assumptions that go into CR, WBL, etc. Yes, the GM can ramp up the difficulty in an attempt to adjust, but this gets into the "arms race" and "rocket tag" that many complain about; it makes the margin for error smaller, which means players optimize more, which causes GMs to increase difficulty higher, etc.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level. You're asking a lot of character concepts to choose between function and fluff at that point. Why try and push Pathfinder as some low-fantasy realistic experience?
The game functions fine at 15 point buy. I routinely build characters with the elite array and they they all work fine.
Do some things work better with 20 point buy? Obviously the answer is yes. Is it needed? Not really. It's a team game where everyone should be able to do something that the others can't.
That being said, 20 and 25 point buy won't break the game either. It's a small boost that some groups like.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level.
And with 20 pts, the same guy could barely afford one 16 and two 14s. An extra +1 to some stuff does not change the hardness of the pressing, in my experience.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level.And with 20 pts, the same guy could barely afford one 16 and two 14s. An extra +1 to some stuff does not change the hardness of the pressing, in my experience.
Or four 14's comfortably.
My point is I'd rather raise the floor than lower the ceiling.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level. You're asking a lot of character concepts to choose between function and fluff at that point. Why try and push Pathfinder as some low-fantasy realistic experience?
Good point. If a whole class is on the edge of non-functionality without dumping, the point buy is too low. If the point buy is just cramping something really out there like Reach Shaman (or Spirit Oracle) with Lore Spirit, but not limiting basic concepts of a whole class, then it's probably okay. Hence the 20 point buy sweet spot. And PFS and several Paizo developers seem to agree, except that APs are apparently stuck at 15 point buy due to inertia.
Also, 20 point buy gives some headroom for some adjustments that I would want to make anyway: Magic item bonuses don't qualify you for feats, higher level spells, or bonus spells (meaning you need those ability scores to be naturally high); NPCs can (although do not always) get the benefit of the same stats, Hero Points, and Traits that the PCs can get without needing to burn feats; adversaries get rebuilt and/or better combat instructions for more optimal performance, etc.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level.And with 20 pts, the same guy could barely afford one 16 and two 14s. An extra +1 to some stuff does not change the hardness of the pressing, in my experience.Or four 14's comfortably.
My point is I'd rather raise the floor than lower the ceiling.
I totally agree that building a monk on a point buy 15 is quite hard to achieve, unless you go for an archetype with which you ignore a stat to some degree (like Zen Archer).
But so far the monk, and to some degree his spiritual descendants (Sacred fist etc.), is the only class as a whole, which doesn't work on a 15 point-buy, which indicates to me more a problem with the class than the point buy.
A monk can only barely afford three 14's without dumping anything at 15 pts. They will be hard pressed to perform at that level.And with 20 pts, the same guy could barely afford one 16 and two 14s. An extra +1 to some stuff does not change the hardness of the pressing, in my experience.Or four 14's comfortably.
My point is I'd rather raise the floor than lower the ceiling.
I totally agree that building a monk on a point buy 15 is quite hard to achieve, unless you go for an archetype with which you ignore a stat to some degree (like Zen Archer).
But so far the monk, and to some degree his spiritual descendants (Sacred fist etc.), is the only class as a whole, which doesn't work on a 15 point-buy, which indicates to me more a problem with the class than the point buy.
Some of the gish classes like Magus and Inquisitor can feel tight too. Basically anything that needs three attributes to get going will be strained. Monk requires four so they're really up the river. Starting at 20 pts is a very easy way to alleviate that.
Actually you can ignore Strength for Monks if you dip three levels into Unchained Rogue. Select Unarmed Strikes for your Finesse weapon, and at 3rd level your Dex does damage as well as to-hit.
Also, a Human Monk can easily have a 16 and two 14s, and just keep the other three stats at 10. If you choose to have one or two stats below 10, you could even have a 13 for Intelligence. So that could be Str 11 Dex 16, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 7.
Or for that matter, a Dwarf Monk could start with Str 11, Dex 14, Con 16, Wis 16, Int 13, Cha 5. Given Monks are not known to be the most social of characters, it even makes sense in a roleplaying sense.
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Again, a 25-point build is also quite doable (and I'll be using it for my future Hell's Rebels campaign), and the GM can compensate with +1 to each stat for all monsters and NPCs in exchange for the higher starting stats and thus keep things more challenging for the PCs.
Also, 20 point buy gives some headroom for some adjustments that I would want to make anyway: Magic item bonuses don't qualify you for feats, higher level spells, or bonus spells (meaning you need those ability scores to be naturally high); NPCs can (although do not always) get the benefit of the same stats, Hero Points, and Traits that the PCs can get without needing to burn feats; adversaries get rebuilt and/or better combat instructions for more optimal performance, etc.
Yes they do. If you have a belt of giant strength +4 and a natural 9 Strength, you will be able to pick up the Power Attack feat when you are able to get a new feat. If you have a headband of Superior Intellect +4 and a natural 13 Intelligence, you now are able to cast 7th level spells so long as you are a high enough level.
I am fairly certain that's not correct in the case of Power Attack or Two-Weapon Fighting and related feats.
Also, you are able to LEARN spells above your intelligence. You just can't cast them unless you have an intelligence above that level... and can qualify for it only if you wear the headband for over 24 hours straight. If for any reason you take it off (say to wash your hair) then you lose those bonuses for 24 hours.
If you meet the requirements for a feat then you can take and use the feat. If you end up not longer meeting those requirements then you still have the feat, but you cannot use it. So if your strength dropped to 9 after removing a belt of giant strength +4, then you could not longer power attack even though you have the feat.
The interesting thing about this is that a barbarian can have feats that he qualifies for or loses access to when raging. He may end up with power attack when raged, but no longer be able to use dodge for example.
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I'm pretty sure UnArcaneElection means those are his house rules that he feels are more palatable with 20-point-buy than 15.
20 point buy gives some headroom for some adjustments that I would want to make anyway:
^You got it.
To be fair, I could have worded that better.
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If we've switched to the old "roll vs point buy" argument,
I'm a ROLE vs point buyer, not a ROLL vs point buyer!
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In my gaming group we have traditionally used the 20 point buy system but after some cake walks, the suggestion was put forth by an upcoming GM to use the 15 point. Unfortunately this set off a drama bomb and now the game is up in the air.
Personally I always reckon if a GM is kind enough to commit the many months of running a game, then you play by their rules.
To which I once more offer the 25-point-build, counteracted by +1 to each stat for all monsters and NPCs. They get their higher points to play with but they are not at an advantage over the monsters and NPCs.
I was under the impression that 20 pt buy was the standard myself. 15 pts is way too low, it's nearly impossible to make a decent character with so few points.