Unfortunately because it has no listed price, the blood of angles and demons is free and apparently falls from the sky like rain.I would like an official price for a drop of devil blood. I can start my devil harvesting business and make millions!We'd also need rules on how much blood (how many drops) each kind of devil has.
I suspect this may have something to do with why no price is given.
It would be ridiculously little relative to mass for the same reason massive dragons only have enough scales for full-plate if you're small.
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Way easier to do if the poor guy in the outsourced factory that builds every wand so they are available for the PC in the shops, is forced to take Eschew Materials in adition to Craft Wands.Would basic summoning work though? Or would the blood and anything else extracted go POOF once the Lemure was killed/banished/spell expired?I figure it's like virtual particles in quantum mechanics, as long as the temporary thing does something which has an effect before it ceases to exist, then it doesn't matter that it only existed for a limited amount of time, the effect still happened.
So if you can summon the lemure, get 50 drops of blood, then start the wand creation process (remember the wand creation rules say "Material components are consumed when work begins"), before the spell expires, you're good. Might be tough to do in 18 seconds, but a higher level wizard (or like a summoner whose summons last minutes) could manage it.
èquote=PRD]
Eschew MaterialsYou can cast many spells without needing to utilize minor material components.
Benefit: You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.
It is not applicable as you don't cast the spell while enchanting an item:
Creating Magic Armor
...
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)Same for the other magic items. The spells aren't cast, they are removed from the mind of the caster.
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"Negligible cost" and "priceless" are two very different things :3I think in context with the PFS component costs, priceless and negligible DO seem to be being interpreted as the same thing.
Personally, I don't like the spell component pouches or the eschew materials feat. I think they take away from the roleplaying experience. I understand the point is simplicity, but I'd much rather have the players keep track of materials than just give them a freebie pass to all things in small quanities. Neglible items would still be pretty close to weightless, so there isn't really an issue if the player has stocked materials for the next 200 castings of each of their spells.
Doesn't really seem different from requiring archers to keep track of arrows. Always kinda wondered why there isn't a cheap non-magical item, or feat, which gives PCs unlimited arrows from their quiver, since the spell materials seem to function in the same way.
It's exactly the same, just exponentially more difficult.
And it's all going to be nothing more than handwaving anyway. Players will at best dutifully write down "50 pinches of sand", "25 bits of spiderweb", etc, then painstakingly scratch them off every time they cast a spell. After the day's adventure, how do you want to handle stocking up again? Do you establish stores for everything and set prices for all the things? Or do you just say for the vast majority of things "You get as many as you want"?Even back in AD&D when there was no feat or special pouches, we always ignored it, except for the special items that seemed hard to come by or occasional adventures where you started out with nothing and had to scrounge.
My group, in AD&D keep track of it as X casting of spell X. You should remember that in AD&D there was no easy "I find the right set of components in less than a second even if I have the components for a few teens of spells in the pouch". That magical belt with the 64 pouches that gave you the content of the right pouch when you wanted it was a great item.
One of the things you did while memorizing the spells (10 minutes/spell level) was to prepare the packet with the right components prepackaged and ready for use.
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Indeed. And they should make fighters keep track of their whetstones, and oil for their armor. Plus, all adventurers should keep track of their spare boot laces, because everyone knows what a pain it is when your bootlaces snap in the middle of combat!And yet, there are item costs listed for Whetstones and oil. And for arrows and all sorts of minor things. If you think it's okay to give the fighter a free pass on lesser gear, then I guess I don't see the issue with spell component pouches.
Seems like there should be a feat for Eschew Lesser Gear or Eschew Ammunition, since we've got a feat for free spell materials.
Kinda like keeping track of character weight. I'm a fan of that mechanic, but I understand that lots of GMs don't bother with it.
Sure there are costs for whetstones and oil.
How many GMs make fighters sharpen their equipment after each fight? How many GMs implement normal rust (not rust monsters) if their armor isn't oiled routinely?
There are a thousand and one ways to nickle, dime, and micromanage the PCs. I seriously doubt it adds 'fun' 99.9% of the time to do so.
How many players actually role play, instead just hacking and slashing? When was the last time your character went to the restroom? Do they eat 3 meals a day? Do they get emotional when they don't eat?
You can certainly choose to look at it as micromanaging, but it also really helps to immerse the players in the setting and in their character.
But I think if the GM isn't "micromanaging" the other gear, then they should refund sorcerers for the Eschew Materials feat. And there's not reason to make characters waste money on spell component pouches, either, if the GM just doesn't care to keep track of materials.
Indeed. And they should make fighters keep track of their whetstones, and oil for their armor. Plus, all adventurers should keep track of their spare boot laces, because everyone knows what a pain it is when your bootlaces snap in the middle of combat!And yet, there are item costs listed for Whetstones and oil. And for arrows and all sorts of minor things. If you think it's okay to give the fighter a free pass on lesser gear, then I guess I don't see the issue with spell component pouches.
Seems like there should be a feat for Eschew Lesser Gear or Eschew Ammunition, since we've got a feat for free spell materials.
Kinda like keeping track of character weight. I'm a fan of that mechanic, but I understand that lots of GMs don't bother with it.
Sure there are costs for whetstones and oil.
How many GMs make fighters sharpen their equipment after each fight? How many GMs implement normal rust (not rust monsters) if their armor isn't oiled routinely?
There are a thousand and one ways to nickle, dime, and micromanage the PCs. I seriously doubt it adds 'fun' 99.9% of the time to do so.
How many players actually role play, instead just hacking and slashing? When was the last time your character went to the restroom? Do they eat 3 meals a day? Do they get emotional when they don't eat?
You can certainly choose to look at it as micromanaging, but it also really helps to immerse the players in the setting and in their character.
But I think if the GM isn't "micromanaging" the other gear, then they should refund sorcerers for the Eschew Materials feat. And there's not reason to make characters waste money on spell component pouches, either, if the GM just doesn't care to keep track of materials.
I think you missed the point of his argument. Either that, or you decide to make a fairy tale out of it and exaggerated everything.
Regardless, his point is that "Sure, players who like role playing can micromanage all they want, making their characters require whetstones, oil, and so on, but the game isn't written to require that sort of thing."
And it isn't. There are no rules for whether Bob the Barbarian needs to act like a bear and s#!^ in the woods at so-and-so time, or if Frank the Fighter is so uptight he just can't stand any food besides three-bean salad every four hours, or even if Sally the Sorcerer gets heartburn while sleeping (and therefore becomes fatigued due to crappy resting conditions). I'll say it again, there are NO RULES for any of the above.
Whereas there are rules for spellcasting and how components for said spells function, and there are mechanical implications behind that, which is his point.
But hey, if you're suggesting Paizo's next sourcebook should be labeled "Ultimate Biology," a rulebook detailing how creatures' and characters' bodily function mechanics work, or "Ultimate Upkeep," a rulebook detailing how a character has to treat their equipment with such-and-such or [random thing] happens, then be my guest. (For the record, I believe Ultimate Campaign was written to fill this sort of niche for the most part, so it'd be kind of redundant to make a rulebook for it again.)
However, I have a feeling that there are other, more pressing things to write besides something about a character taking a s#!^ in the woods, or worrying about rust on their equipment that wasn't caused by a Rust Monster, such as more Unchained material, or even more APs.
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@darksol: You seem pretty upset, but I don't really understand what you are upset about. All I was saying is that I don't really like the Eschew Materials feat or the Spell Component Pouch. I totally get that they are rules in the game. I just feel that they take away from roleplaying, that's all.
And I do think the game is unbalanced in requiring some classes to keep track of gear (like ammunition), while other classes just get a free pass in the spell component pouch. And if the GM is actually giving the classes that require ammunition a free pass, then they really should refund the sorcere's eschew materials feat, since the GM is fine giving all classes a free pass. That seems like a good way to restore balance.
Anyway, no I don't think of the things I described as micromanaging. I call that roleplaying. There is micromanaging, it's a real thing, but that's not what I'm describing. Some players just like the games to be more complicated than others.
Like Shadowrun, some groups keep track of the bullets in each magazine, and others prefer to do the shooter PC game thing, where the magazines are just something that prompts a reload action. And regarding the magazines, if the group is keeping track of the bullets in each magazine, you can mix the ammunition per magazine, while a group that doesn't disguish would likely require each type of ammunition to have its own magazine (which then requires a different reload action to switch ammunition types, rather than just counting bullets).
And going to the bathroom seems like annoyance, but if the players are expected to have their characters do it, then NPCs can be expected to as well. It's a great function for Rogues and such, trying to find the perfect ambush points, if their group has the time to wait for the right moment. Also, bathrooms mean that every castle has a not-so-secret entrance, even if it smells terrible and is slimey...
Presumably in answer to a demand for a mirror to Infernal Healing, however given the story reasons for the original spell, it would be rather pointless to make it as good as that spell, given that Infernal Healing was created as a corrupting spell to tempt wizards.fast healing is Slooooooow. In the same time your infernal healing is giving you 10 hp back, you could suck 55 HP out of a CLW wand. Sure, per HP it is better, but only if you have unlimited time and care about 75 gp.
it's not abusable in the slightest because the duration is fixed. It can't even be used offensively.
It's just a fantastically stupid and inefficient spell. How did it even see print in that form?
But since it- in actual game play- does not corrupt at all, that's no limitation.
Infernal healing should simply be erratated out of existence.
Heal heals a lot faster and does not -in actual game play- corrupt at all. Let's errata it out of existence too.
Heal heals a lot faster and does not -in actual game play- corrupt at all. Let's errata it out of existence too.
How much for a wand of Heal?
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Heal heals a lot faster and does not -in actual game play- corrupt at all. Let's errata it out of existence too.How much for a wand of Heal?
There isn't a price listed. I think that means that you can pull one out of your Spell Component Pouch whenever you need one.
(400 x 1 x 1) + .75(300x1x1) = 400 + 225 = 625gp? That can't be right. Where'd I mess up?Minimal Caster Level is 11 and also the 300 is the 75% cost reduction, you dont reduce that further.
(400 x 1 x 11) + (300 x 1 x 11)= 7700 (+200 for the masterwork staff)
So its about 7900 gold to buy and 3950 to craft.
Staff rules:
Minimum caster level is 8
All spells at same CL
Can reduce costs by increasing chargesThe following staves have a spell using 5 charges: Staff Of Life, Staff Of The Planes, Staff Of The Freed Man, Gravedigger's Spade, and Spark Staff. No staff lists more charges (at least as far as I have found).
So:
1st spell: Craft for 400 * 1 (SL) * 8 (CL) / 5 (charge) = 640
2nd spell: Craft for 300 * 1 (SL) * 8 (CL) / 5 (charge) = 480A minimum usable & rechargeable staff CL8 of celestial healing and magic missile could cost as little as 1120 gp. [Price is double.] You need to spend 5 days to get back a use of a spell.
This is less than double your initial number. :-)
If you make the 2nd spell at one charge per, then it becomes:
1st spell: Craft for 400 * 1 (SL) * 8 (CL) / 5 (charge) = 640
2nd spell: Craft for 300 * 1 (SL) * 8 (CL) / 1 (charge) = 2400
totaling 3040 gp. [Price is double.]
This is because you order the spells by level only, not by charger or by material component extras, so you can order them favorably.I have no idea where you are coming up with a need for masterworking the staff, or how you came up with the number 200 gp.
/cevah
EDIT: Ahh I see it now its squirreled away under the latter text...but that means it cheaper to have staves with higher level spells but fewer uses than low-level staves with higher uses. I surrender!
The final price on ANY magic item is more strongly dictated by the overall item. All the formulas do is put you in the right ballpark. You *can* use the formula numbers as many items do but that is not necessarily the main determining factor.
Heal heals a lot faster and does not -in actual game play- corrupt at all. Let's errata it out of existence too.How much for a wand of Heal?
Heal(6th level cleric spell) x 6(11th level cleric) x 750 = 49,500gp
49,500 / 50 = 990 per charge
But we are comparing it to Infernal Healing, so this wondrous item needs to be rated against 10 healing/15gp.
1 charge heals 110 hit points. So each point of healing costs 9gp. 10 points is 90gp, six times as expensive as the wand.
However, that 1 point of hit point healing also ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, sickened, and stunned.
Not getting into that math, but I think that means the glove of healing(as we will call this wondrous item) is far more overpowered, so the spell must be as well and needs to be errata'd away.
tl;dr: I'm joking.
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Wands can't hold higher than 4th-level spells.
Indeed. And they should make fighters keep track of their whetstones, and oil for their armor. Plus, all adventurers should keep track of their spare boot laces, because everyone knows what a pain it is when your bootlaces snap in the middle of combat!And yet, there are item costs listed for Whetstones and oil. And for arrows and all sorts of minor things. If you think it's okay to give the fighter a free pass on lesser gear, then I guess I don't see the issue with spell component pouches.
Seems like there should be a feat for Eschew Lesser Gear or Eschew Ammunition, since we've got a feat for free spell materials.
Kinda like keeping track of character weight. I'm a fan of that mechanic, but I understand that lots of GMs don't bother with it.
Pack Rat and Well Prepared are psuedo Eschew Lesser Gear but are race specific and you still have to use Schrodinger's Payment for them.
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Pack Rat and Well Prepared are psuedo Eschew Lesser Gear but are race specific and you still have to use Schrodinger's Payment for them.
I love Well Prepared. One of the best feats for adventurers. Inner sea races even adds a Teamwork feat variant of this one. It being halfling only is disappointing, since really, it would be very practical for every PC to have access to this one.
For a homebrewed adventure, I'd certainly consider giving Well Prepared as a bonus feat for every PC. Just a very practical feat and adds easy role play options, without breaking anything.
I wish they had a non-race-specific cartoon version of Pack Rat/Well-Prepared (instead of requiring that you be of a specific race, it requires a certain number of ranks in Perform (Comedy)).
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I wish they had a non-race-specific cartoon version of Pack Rat/Well-Prepared (instead of requiring that you be of a specific race, it requires a certain number of ranks in Perform (Comedy)).
There's a Fighter Archetype, the Pack Mule, which increases carry capacity as a focus (also has more skill points). I'm planning a halfling fighter for my next PFS fighter build. I always have issues with halfling/gnome fighters because the strength penalty and size penalty to carry weight makes a lot of the armor options very tough. I think Well Prepared would be pretty cool on a fighter.
I was actually looking for the rules for encumbrance for small races earlier but I couldn't find it, where's it at.
: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.
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Small creatures should be able to carry slightly more stuff, relatively speaking. The weight of their gear gets cut in half, but they still have 3/4 the carrying capacity. Though, I suppose the STR penalty does hurt a bit. I think you still end up slightly ahead.
With a -2 STR, you're at about 3/4 the carrying capacity as well, so:
3/4 (from being small) * 3/4 (from the -2 STR) = 9/16, which is slightly higher than 1/2, which is what a lot of your gear weighs (armor, weapons).
That's all true, but the other end is that most of the non-armor/weapons does actaully retain it's normal weight. So while I get light weight chainmail armor, things like potions start really adding up for small characters. Alchemist's fire, for example, weighs the same 1lb that it does on a medium character. And that does make sense, since it would be silly to have a smaller alchemist's fire for smaller characters.
The other end of it is that Halfling characters have a bonus to DEX and a penalty to STR. So things like weapon finesse are more appealling, plus odd strength mods are bad for abilitiles like the 1.5x str mod to damage of two handed weapons. So as a fighter, I'd probably never invest more than a 16 in strength (which is a 14 after racial mods). A +2 and a +3 on damage, really aren't that different (while the difference between a +3 and a +4 is much more impressive with two handed weapon attacks). Wouldn't be an issue if I were rolling the stats, but with a point buy system, I'd never put an 18 into my strength, if I planned to take a halfling or gnome for my race.
Anyway, didn't mean to derail onto my own topic.
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I was actually looking for the rules for encumbrance for small races earlier but I couldn't find it, where's it at.
The link above is better, but for CRB reference, it's page 170, top left, just below the height/weight table. The rules for reducing weight of weapons and armor are in their respective sections of equipment book, under weight (page 144 for weapons and page 150 for armor). Other equipment, like adventuring gear, doesn't lower weight for small characters (or increase for large ones) unless it has a specific entry that says so.
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It would be reasonable to cut the weight of resized gear in half, like backpacks.
Yeah, things like trail rations do have reduced weight. It's not that any one thing is hugely weighing the PC down, but they all start adding up. And fighters are more gear dependent than most classes.
Anyway, finally got a copy of Black Markets, which has a the halfling fighter archetype, officially called Pack Mule, but if you look at the options, it's very clearly an amazing archetype for halfling fighters. Gains more skill points per level, gains 4 class which just happen to be dex and cha skills, gains a class bonus on sleight of hand, and gains extra strength the purposes of carry weight. Plus, class reduces penalties for medium and heavy loads (useless for dwarves, but amazing on halflings).
Sorry, I'm so very off topic now. Topic should be celestial healing, I think.