Hello.
Well, specifically, with will o'wisps.
I´m stuck in this situation: an 8lvl Bloodrager, a wyven cohort and a 4lvl Psychic are exploring some kind of abandoned church/temple in the middle of nothing.
We faced some nagas and a huge ooze, but then we came to a room where we were catched flat-footed and received electricity damage, after a succesful knowledge check, my psychic identified them as will o'wisps.
The dragon tried to track them with scent, but DM said that they can´t be smelled.
For now, my psychic only knows "mind thrust II" as 2nd level spell, so im not able to cast see invisibility or something similar.
Casting burst area spells seems useless, they are inmune to magic.
So, we are traped with theese enemies, unable to see them, smell them or pinpoint them, our Hp is dropping fast and i have no certain idea of what to do.
Please help.
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I'd suggest that sometimes it's worth remembering the better part of valor and leave.
You could try more mundane ways of showing they're there. Flour is a popular one, but anything that would stick would work, a bottle of ink, or a flask of oil.
You could use spells that don't allow spell resistance, I believe that gets past their immunity
You could try more mundane ways of showing they're there. Flour is a popular one, but anything that would stick would work, a bottle of ink, or a flask of oil.
You could use spells that don't allow spell resistance, I believe that gets past their immunity
Most of those spells would be defeated by their general immunity. Wisps don't have spell resistance, they're simply immune to most magic.
Most of those spells would be defeated by their general immunity. Wisps don't have spell resistance, they're simply immune to most magic.You could try more mundane ways of showing they're there. Flour is a popular one, but anything that would stick would work, a bottle of ink, or a flask of oil.
You could use spells that don't allow spell resistance, I believe that gets past their immunity
*ahem*
Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Will-o'-wisps are immune to all spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
Glitterdust seems the best bet.
It does not allow spell resistance. and as Snowblind noted...
*ahem*
Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Will-o'-wisps are immune to all spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
Hit 'em with glitterdust, doesn't allow spell resistance and reveals invisible foes to the whole party.
Ready ranged attacks to hit them after they zap you. Not the best tactic, but if you're struggling for ways to attack back it might be helpful. Also note that they must use a move action to turn invisible after becoming visible, so if they are attacking and turning invisible afterwards they can't move.
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Ready ranged attacks to hit them after they zap you.
Why ranged? Their attacks are melee. You'd be feeding them Aoos.
You might also consider readying a grapple if you're willing to eat an Aoo. It'll lower their AC for your buddies, hold them in place, and if they flub their Escape Artist roll (depends upon your CMD - but probably around 1/3) the next round you can pin them easily, and then they're done.
Also, while regular smoke pellets wouldn't be super handy, Smog smoke pellets make them visible for 1d4 rounds. (You only have to hit their square with it.)
Only issue with the grapple attempt is you're almost guaranteed to take a -2d8 to your initial grapple attempt meaning their CMD is effectively higher than their AC
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If your GM is ruling they can't be smelled thus breaking your only way of locating them despite normal rules... you just run. Your GM has purposely made them impossible to beat for your group. Especially if he is ruling that they never glow thus pinpointing their square. Will-o-wisps glow like a torch normally, which is enough to pinpoint but they still have the 50/50 miss chance from being invisible. They can turn this off but your GM should have used that to allow you a chance.
It doesn't sound like your GM is using their standard tactics at all and is only using them to beat your character down.
Even for glitterdust to work you need to pinpoint where they are. Flour on the floor can't work as they fly.
I agree, run away.
When you come back, make sure you bring some Resist Energy for their electrical attacks.
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If your GM is ruling they can't be smelled thus breaking your only way of locating them despite normal rules... you just run. Your GM has purposely made them impossible to beat for your group. Especially if he is ruling that they never glow thus pinpointing their square. Will-o-wisps glow like a torch normally, which is enough to pinpoint but they still have the 50/50 miss chance from being invisible. They can turn this off but your GM should have used that to allow you a chance.
It doesn't sound like your GM is using their standard tactics at all and is only using them to beat your character down.
Even for glitterdust to work you need to pinpoint where they are. Flour on the floor can't work as they fly.
No need to be so prissy about it. They could have brought ways to see invisibility and didn't. That's hardly the GM's fault.
It's not that easy to figure out where things are by scent, even if it had worked. The GM perhaps should have let it.
The GM absolutely should not have have them put on their glow. 15int/16wis ambush predators, surprise surprise, aren't morons. They know when they have the upper hand.
Glitterdust works fine when you don't know where they are. You wait for an attack, and then you blanket that general area. It's pretty wide.
Anyway, OP, I'd advice you to run away as fast as you can. See if that wyvern can't carry both PCs, and then leg it.
These things don't feed on death. They feed on fear. Their attacks are a last ditch resort, by their standard tactics. Also, I don't suggest they should be stupid about it. What they should do is try to confuse their numbers by turning their light on and off and only in the distance. This gives the PCs some chance but it isn't in a way that is a 'stupid tactic'.
As for "it's not easy to figure out where things are by scent", if they have the scent ability. It's actually fairly easy.
"When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. When the creature is within 5 feet of the source, it pinpoints the source’s location."
But the GM shutting down scent when the things are also naturally invisible is ridiculous and deserves the 'prissiness'.
Wisps already are more powerful than their CR and require certain resources to handle well. As is, without invisibility purge or Glitterdust, they will have a 50/50 miss chance.
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Though, I should say, there is this bit which can help.
From Invisibility special ability
"If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location."
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Wisps' ability works like Invisibility - not Greater Invisibility.
Can they go invis again during the same turn that they attack someone? Sure. But they're still visible for that instant, and that's long enough for a readied action to go off.
Actually, you know what, you're right. Their natural invisibility allows them to shut off their glow as per "Invisibility". Which is weird since light isn't extinguished by invisibility... but whatever. Invisibility does have the 'attack and become visible' limitation. So if they attack their light pops on again.
I'm not sure that is RAI, but it would be RAW.
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The other thing that makes me think there might be a poor DM at the helm is one character is level 8 and the OP is level 4. That is not a recipe for successful adventuring.