I really dont understand the whole "Dont kill another player... ever" attitude. Sometimes it is called for.
A few rules I usually follow.
1. It has to be... It HAS TO BE character motivated. This can not be an out of game rivalry... that is rule numro uno. You seem to have this covered.
2. It has to be understood that this might happen. All the players and DM have to understand that as a RP game sometimes characters die, and sometimes those characters dont get along. The problem comes when players dont seperate the character from the player. The character killed your character. If RULE 1 is being followed... it isn't personal. As long as everyone signs off on this it can be a healthy part of the game.
3. DMs should NEVER punish a player who is killed by another player. Let him bring in a new character with full WBL and the same level as the rest of the party. I know some DMs who have new characters bring in new characters at a level lower then the party. This should be waved in this case.
4. A player who is killed should never bring a new character in to "compete with" or "get back at" the character that killed his old character. This goes back on rule 1 and 2. Dont take it personal. Its a game and stuff happens.
Its possible that because most of my players are also Vampire players they have a better handle on this. In Vamp player vs player isnt just a part of the game... its encouraged by the rules. PVP can be a sign of a game falling apart... if its handled poorly. If kept in perspective (no punching someone in the face... Jesus... really?). It is fine.
+1
Here is a problem I see with killing the character. If allowed to make a new character, who's to say that he won't make another "let's talk it out with the beholder and demons" type of character.
I agree with the above post. If the queen told you to do this and he attempted to stop you and actively try to kill you, siding with the enemy, I'd bring it up with the queen some how.
She'd most likely not be happy. At the very, very least, I would expect the queen to have him arrested if he entered the city, if not actively try to hunt him down.
I don't see this coming out well either way. You kill him, he either hates you in real life or rerolls and takes revenge with that character. Don't kill him and you have to figure out what to do with him while still having some sort of fun.
I do not envy you, but good luck.
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Yeah, I am more convinced that the more likely outcome is him creating a character that will only be seeking to ruin yours. He isn't a team player, he doesn't really pay attention to the game plot, he clearly makes harmful choices based on petty vengeance, and he harming the game more than helping.
If you kill the PC, you probably should push to have the player out of the game as well. If you don't he is only going to become more annoying. If not more annoying, he is only going to be just as much of a problem to the game plot. He clearly thinks he is playing a different game than everyone else and isn't paying attention to the important information. Also, the polar bear is something he as a player is fixated on. If he acts like that with an animal companion's accidental death, how will he handle a deliberate PC death?
If you don't kill the character, you are going to have to continue to do damage control. It might mean you do his job for him. This could lead to the GM revealing that the only reason he is still alive, and the nation is saved, is because of you and that he was little more than an annoyance and seat warmer. I personally would feel more satisfied with that result, but it would require double the effort you are putting in now and possibly some behind the scenes work with the GM.
If you kill the PC, let us know how it works out. I hope I am wrong in thinking he is going to become even more annoying.
From what I read your character has many reasons to kill the other character.
If you were playing a more open class it would be easier to solve this. You could just challenge him openly with like "I've had it with you... *lists all the reasons.*
But as Assassin you would not do that. But murdering the other in a moment of weakness robs the player of doing anything against it.
So what I would suggest is, the next time you get the chance do a Death Attack and paralyze him (you do not need to kill with a death attack). Tie him down afterward and then interrogate him. You yourself are saying his behavior is strange. But the same is true from the point of view of the character.
So your head of the assassins has all the reasons to believe that the druid is either a traitor, or is being influenced/controlled by the enemy. (A druid siding with an aberration? Don't they hate those 'unnatural' things?)
This way you can IC talk about this. And if the talking does not get to a proper solution you can bring the problem to your King, lay down all the facts and let the King (GM) decide.
It is not fair that you have to be the "rear end orifice" in this. If the King has any sense he will say something like this: "This man has been one of my loyalest servants. His words weight heavy. So unless you can bring any definite proof of any disloyalty, you better shut the hell up or I put you on his lists of problems that need to be solved."
It seems your GM supports the PC conflict and is ready to run the game where ever it goes. The other player says that he's been attempting to get your PC killed, so he should be comfortable with PCs killing PCs.
A couple of suggestions for your path of assassination:
1. Ensure your allies are ready for the change
2. Ensure your PC has plausible denial-ability and alibi
3. Ready to retire your PC for the potential GM consequences
cheers
If Tim is as good of a guy OOC as you say, I think he'll understand if you kill of his PC. If he makes another character who tries to do the same things, kill that one too and keep doing that until he gets the point hammered home. The fact of the matter is that as a "good" druid, he's playing pretty evil with his actions thus far. I don't think that killing an animal companion in a TPK situation is worth this much strife.
If I were the GM I'd have him moving his alignment in that direction with every evil act he does. This could be interesting in-game as he possibly turns traitor completely and becomes the nemesis of the party.
If you are gonna go thru with the assassination end of things, there are a few things I would suggest.
First off, I agree with the few suggestions, talk to the queen, make sure she is on your side ( thus granting you dm fiat -- gm can't complain you asked for his opinion ).
Second, make sure the other players are cool with this. The last thing you want is an "open warfare" style scenario.. with everyone attacking you.
Third, I would consider using your assassins guild for help on this, but if you want a "solo kill". Do not talk to him anymore, it will only give him a "heads up" and be prepared. Nuke his ass into the ground, without warning.
Druids are fairly nasty, and from what you've said he has tried twice to kill you, and failed both times. Don't make that same mistake he did.
If my PC was the Assassin, I'd make sure that the killing of the Druid wouldn't be traced back to me. I agree with other posters about getting the go-ahead from the Queen somehow, using other allies (from your guild)to help set it up, possibly hire out a hit on him, or get him one-on-one away from the other party members and blame it on your enemies.
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I'm with the folks who are perpetually bemused and amused by the "never ever kill another PC" folks. Both they and the "the GM should never kill a PC with out the players consent" people really make me wonder if we're playing the same game some days. I can't tell you the number of PCs I've seen killed over the years for lifting party loot or risking the party from their idiotic stunts.
In my not at all humble opinion, off him efficiently and make sure he can't come back.
From what you said in your earlier post he healed a Beholder while you were fighting it. That's PVP. You're just finishing the fight he started.
Hopefully his next character will be less unstable.
-TimD
Hmmm...the assassins guild idea could both tie the death back to you and provide plausible deniability. Of course they would think you used your connections, but but at the same time, we have had a lot of discussion that you can go to the queen about this.
You could simply say you reported in, and the queen decided to send a couple of other assassins to take care of things because you are "too involved." Of course you can be behind the entire plan and set up....but hey, you did say you had ranks in bluff, eh?
Depends on the purpose behind your campaign. In all mine, the purpose is for friends to get together, collaboratively craft a story, have a good time, and enjoy the game. If that is what your campaign is for, sounds like the GM has failed. He should immediately call a player council, lay down rules,and be prepare to boot non-conformers from the game.
If the purpose is to breed discontent and out-of-game personal alienation, he should offer $50 to the first player adversary to successfully kill the other.
After reading the whole thread(very entertaining if a little sad)I would have stabbed him if i was playing your char as you described it. I hate meta gaming and he clearly is doing it and you have too as well to not kill him. PVP should never be done lightly but as soon as you start threatening to or actually trying to kill another PC they can't hold up their hands and say no PVP. Next time his char goes to sleep he shouldn't wake up and it shouldn't be traced back too you.
If you could handle this out of game I would of but clearly that hasn't worked. If he rebuilds his char and does the same thing and is out to get you, kill him again. Then i would either have him leave or I would leave the group. A player who can't play their character and disrupts the rest of the group in the process should be given their walking papers.
If my PC was the Assassin, I'd make sure that the killing of the Druid wouldn't be traced back to me. I agree with other posters about getting the go-ahead from the Queen somehow, using other allies (from your guild)to help set it up, possibly hire out a hit on him, or get him one-on-one away from the other party members and blame it on your enemies.
I was thinking bout this... and some things others have posted and came up with a decent scenario.
Do your death attack on the druid, PARALYZING him. Somehow make sure you render him helpless ( tie him up, etc ) .. take him to the Queen. Then explain to the Queen what has transpired, him being a traitor, helping the beholder, etc.
After you explain what has gone on, if possible remove yourself as being the executioner, if you have an underling... or others there to do the deed awesome, otherwise you may have to be the deathdealer. ( You also need to be ready here, in case the Druid tries to escape, to 1 shot him )
Sit back and watch the fun, as the druid has to explain to the Queen, you, your party mates what the hell he was thinking/ why he chose the actions he did. Unless he had an awesome plan.. he will be squirming.
More then likely, again unless he had some hidden secret agenda, the Queen should pronounce him a traitor to the realm, and order his immediate execution.
You have thus shifted all the blame for the Druid's death either to himself, or the Queen. Thus eliminating more "next character revenge" tactics.
The only downside to this... by taking him to the Queen and having this "trial" of sorts play out.. you are giving the Druid a chance to pull the typical "villian escape" routine.
Ok, to update now that we had two sessions over the weekend which also finished the second campaign.
First to answer a few comments above;
as to using my Assassins guild to assist, we are a very far ways from the homeland and access to them. The only mage in the group which is Sarahs Arcane Archer doesnt happen to have that spell either. So I will have to make do with what i have.
As for taking the druid back home for judgment, I do like the idea alot, but also i know the gm will also make it opportunity for the druid to escape, even if he agrees with me. Then there is also tranporting the druid back home, which again is a very long ways to travel with him, like months, and i would rather avoid having to play escort the prisoner as that is just too ripe with potential problems the gm can throw at me as well as the druid escaping. Also, in character my guy just doesnt do escort or prisoners. He is all about judgement time, which is either a vow to Frostholme, her queen and to never ever ever ever cross any of us or i will be back (only offered if i think the person has honor and hasn't crossed the line to far, i think i have offered this twice so far and neither have broken bond) or, they get silence followed by death gurgles as they choke on thier own blood. (by far the most common response)
Ok, so just a little bit of back story for what i lead into on the weekend.
About 1 sessions ago (prior to weeken) we encountered a young Gate Keeper druid, teenage girl druid that was prolly 13. So very young. Tim of course made all buddy buddy with her and in the eve during camp Tim of course did his usual thing, he chatted to her about Frostholme, our great adventures in the republic, in arculos and the evil evil assassin that threatens to destroy us all... So now he is blabbing to her about all the secrets, the many demons in Frostholme due to the Prime Frost Gate and how we have no gate keepers. (Tim's druid btw was or is suppose to be a gate keeper, but i have never seen him do anything about it ever, even as far as talking to these gate keepers for help).
So after tims chat, I ask her if she can arrange for the Gate Keepers to protect the gates of Frostholme. Well now that Tim has soured the well, she thinks i am tainted by the demons, for how could i kill our own king and Tim's beloved bear??? I mean the humanity right? So then she goes on to say that based on Tim's voice and words that she would recommend that the Gate Keepers deem Frostholme cursed and lost to demonic taint. She is sure that the keepers will rally / manipulate the Republic forces into destroying Frostholme.. g%!+~!mit, didnt i just bleed all over that country, this country and everything in between to make sure this didnt' happen? We are talking about 6-9 hour sessions once per week sometimes twice that have been going on for 3 months now for the 2nd campaign. My sin has worked very very very hard to not let this happen and now Tim's druid is about to undue it all again.
Ok so time to decide watches. I pipe up right away that i want first watch, and i show i am eager for it. Tim is suspicious right away and wants first watch, so i bow out and give it to him. The thing is i didn't really want first watch at all, just wanted the druid to take it. So my watch is second last watch. So I listen to make sure the druids are sleeping. Cast charm person scroll on both druids, and no prob sinse unconscious. I whisper to tims druid that he needs to sleep and all is safe and sound. I then quietly pick Tims scimitar from his scabbard. I lightly wake my new druid friend the little girl.
Now meta game knowledge i know this is the GM testing my characters conviction. He had an idea of what might happen and i can tell he put the little girl in for that reason. She already told us how she lost her parents while they protected a gate in the south here to some demonically possessed rangers. Her story was also suppose to help rouse Tim into possibly taking action to get the Keepers help, which apparently failed when he did nothing and then i suggest it, which is like the devil asking you to trust him with your soul, so ya big fail.
So anyway, i quietly lead my new friend from the area, talking soothingly to her about her unfortunate plight and how all those touched by the demon need to be eradicated. Ask Gm what i know about 'The One', the big demon general that can only enter thru Frostholmes gate. I roll on knowledge arcana and religion, do pretty well on them and gm tells me some stuff. While she isnt looking at me i use alter self scroll /w disguise to look like Tim. So study for death attack, but i wield the druids scimitar and i go for a heart strike vs my norm throat. Boa noite cinderella. It is sad, and i really didnt want to ace the little girl, she was even played as a sweet but sad little girl. Tims scimitar has her blood all over the blade. I arrange a cult like circle that looks like 'The One's' work, a sacrifice to him. I carve his symbol on her flesh. I take a few trophies that only a worshipper might take, wrap them up and the scene is set. I do not want the party to find this, i tried to set it so the Gate Keepers will find her body. So i sneak back to camp, put the druids scimitar back, being careful to wipe the blood of the blade on the inside of Tim's scabbard, as if he didnt clean the blade. I then deposit the 'trophies' in Tim's pack where i dont think he will look or find them. Tim was all shaking his head nooo and saying he can't believe i gave her the boa noite, cinderella.
I then awaken the camp in a quiet danger, as i say i have spotted arculos mage party down the road and we should make haste to leave. Tim immediately asks where is the little girl druid, and i tell him she left during the night, and when i asked where she was going she just gave me the evil eye and put her hand to her bow. Tim didnt want to believe but his sense motive sucks and he had to based on the circumstances, but he is trying to use player knowledge.
Now onto the weekend sessions.
Weekend sessions..
So I mentioned earlier that there is the massive canyon with many stone pillar like terraces, but very huge like. (massive cylinders of rock the size of city blocks) We had climbed and fought our way to the top of it where a very old or ancient dragon has made nest, as well as an old ruined mage tower from long ago. We get to the top and wait for the momma dragon to piss off, then we sneak into the tower. Well guess what, she is a momma dragon cause she has some little ones there. So death to the little red dragons. We find a small treasure horde but not what a great dragon like the momma should have.
side note: we have been dressed like Republic nation envoys / military as mentioned way above.
So i find a secret hatch in the tower, but do not open it yet nor mention it. Before we can do much the momma dragon comes back and the big fight is on. I claimed one of her eyes in sneak attack which she wasnt to happy with and my shadow mastiff latched onto her throat while the party took her down, (my leadership cohort is a shadow mastiff) but not before she gave me a tail swipe that sent me thru the hole in the tower and out off the mesa.. oh dam, i am now falling a few hundred feet to the ground below. Where is the feather fall scroll, .. gm makes me check to see if i can dig it out and cast it before i go splatt. UMD, i roll 2. Luckily i am good at UMD and make the check. I am telling ya, skills have saved this character soo many times, as well as dice rolls to avoid death. I really expected the character to die long ago, but he has defied death to the end.
So now i am at the bottom of the mesa again.. and beat up. The gm has this whole event scripted for time, and guess what, the Arculos patrol has just arrived tracking me. Yes, just me as the druid is responsible for it. And even more ironic is that i got punted out of the tower and off the mesa with a tail swipe, only to survive it and now run into the hunter patrol. If you are unaware, ever sinse the druid 'sided' with the beholder battle controller, he has made him and his forces aware of me, and only me as the bad apple that shouldnt be eaten, but destroyed. Arculos is a magic based kingdom.
So ya, lay down deeper darkness scroll on me as they are just approaching, and b-line it for the mesa wall and start climbing like a mofo. Well guess what, sinse the hunting party is of a magic kingdom, the mages of the group cast fly and ya, here they come. I have a decent head start but i am also climbing vs some of them that are climbing, while the bulk of the group is heading to the base of the mesa and then the other mages will cast a group levitate to take them up. So mage wants to show me how talented he is with lightning.. and i really cant afford to take a hit from that, even with imp evasion if i fail it is over. So i find and take cover in some small crevice in the rock where the mage has to wait or come closer. The damn mage wants to wait for his buddies to flush me out, ... curses those smarty pants. Fine, i try to taunt the mage, throwing insults and demeaning him as the pansy whipping boy mage, well i succeed in getting his ire, so he comes closer to get an angle to blast me with lighting, like really close as i was hiding in there. Initiative, gm just says the fireball is coming, lol, and i will have a big penalty to sv as i'm in a bad spot. So ya, initiative, i go first *whew*, crossbow bolt sneak attack to the eye, and i practically rolled max damage. Mage screaming in pain, i use my grappling hook to attack and embed it in him and pull him close to me in the rock where i essentially finish him, get his spellbook, scrolls and some gear then toss his body hoping to hit the group below. Oh look, levitate scroll. Zooma zoom, get to the top. Meet up with party, tell them some 'bandits' are coming for us, make bluff and they get ready with ambush.
When they get to the top, and move onto the mesa top, i put darkness down on them as i dont want the party getting to good of a look at them, though really only Tim will try to hang me out, but i dont want to take any chances. Our mage, uses multiple fireball arrows, followed by the druid using lightning storm of some kind, and the hound master with his multiple shadow mastiff hounds moving in to mop them up along with the druid who wants to get his scimitar action going. (where do you think i got my cohort from :) ) Well one of the hunting party escapes, and the archer is going to put him down but i tell her alive, he must be alive but unconscious. So she uses a arrow with sleep? on it and succeeds in putting him unconscious.
Well the darkness fades and ya, guess what, the druid sees i 'tricked' them into killing the hunting party. He isn't happy about that. I saw it is done, but we can give them a proper burial after we have rested to appease him. The druid is dumb, because my sin doesnt give anyone short of a king (my king) a 'burial' and he always misses the clues, but then again i can just roll bluff vs his sense motive if need be.
So again, we decide to rest for the rest of the day in the tower.
Our only way to communicate with the Queen is via the arcane archer Frosty, so i tell her it is very important. When isnt' anything my sin say not important? I dont waste time or words, so just requesting it means it is important. She is a bit suspicious of me after that last findangle, but she grants it. I commune with the Queen, i give her the run down, last time we chatted was just after the druid joined the beholder, but i had to cut short and go as the gm i think wanted to cut any responses from her short. So now here it all is. She says it is in my hands on how to resolve this issue, but Frostholme must not be revealed nor identified in this and our enemies must turn attention away from it. So i ask for a couple items to 'make' their way to me quickly. She would also like to have the druid on trial. I tell her i will handle it with Frostholmes interests at heart. A cold frosty heart, but at heart. Sarah, her arcane archer is aware of the entire conversation so she can vouch for anything said.
So party 'rests' again, but it sure does feel like when the party rests, i dont get to rest as i have to again fix stuff. Why can't i have a nice little sleep for once? Even assassins need to nap, i just dont want the eternal nap, well which happens when you 'nap'. Complaints over, back to work.
So we rest outside the tower on it's side near the cliff, as no one wants to clean out the dead dragons in the tower, and Tim not wanting to be fooled this time around, oh noes.. so he wants last rest watch. Oh ya, did i mention he never heals me, so ya, good thing that mage on the cliff wall had a heal pot. My sin has rarely ever been at full health sinse the beholder incident. My heal skill isn't great but ya, it has been my best friend for the last month.
So my watch, i search the trap door, and find it is stairs below. Makes sense as we havent found the artifact yet, maybe below? So i dont want to one man any dungeons or anything, i just need a room that shows up early, and so we have it, at the bottom of the stairs is a horde of treasure in a large room and ironically for my needs a altar to a god long gone. So to hurry up as time is short. I collect the bodies of the arculos hunting party, put them in the chamber around the altar. Again go to work arranging the scene as a sacrifice to 'The One'. It is pretty grisly work, work that my sin has not really had to do until recently, and can't say i enjoy it at all, but hopefully this works to putting and end to any further 'need'. Last of all is the 'survivor' who i poison to keep unconscious but make sure he will survive, even with some ritual cutting.
Head back up, try to cover any tracks of the 'trap door' being opened or used and finish my watch, passing it on to the next, which ironically is Tim. I think the hound master awoke while i was doing stuff but he apparently hasnt said anything, and he just gave me a silent stare when i settled in for rest time. I like the hound master, he has been very loyal to me over all, and the two of us have worked great togather when we can.
So end of watch, Tim wants to do the burial, and ya.. no bodies! omg, where did they go? Well i tell him that they were stinking up the place so i threw them over the cliff :) The hound master was only smiling and tim was pissed, i can tell he was very close to attacking, as his druid just sat there gripping his scimitar. But alas, he moved on.
So into the tower, and sinse i am the best scout / trap master, i am point. Though notably, the hound master makes a great scout as well. But he just gestures with his hand for me to go first as i can tell he has suspicions and is 'helping' me. Because anything i say or do, Tim is instantly all over that.
So i open the trap door, which didnt really need all the cover up sinse i am the first there. We head down, and see all the treasure, and in the back the bodies. I quickly move to the treasure and pick up a very fansy scepter, and say 'this must be it, fits the description exactly'.. so tim is like oh nooes, that dirty sin better not touch it. So he just snathces it from my hands which i let him do. He starts to study it, ask the Archer if this is the item. She glances at me but i ignore her as i am bluff, study for death attack. Hmm, change at last moment which makes things more risky, i instead use one of the items asked for, a high level scroll of Ghouls touch which i use on the druid. Save time, .. he rolls a 4? and fails. He is paralyzed and now there is a bad stench in here that the other party members are convulsing at, not to mention the mutilated corpses. I move behind the druid and take his cloak which i cover over his head and tell him, "the vile scent you smell is your breath as it whispers death and ruin unto all your victims unkowingly. The Keepers will find that poor little druid girls mutilated corpse that you sacrificed to 'The One'. You didnt want them sticking their nose into your demonic affairs in Frostholme, so who needs their help. I would end you here but your soul is still needed to help protect our home." With that i coup de grace as i pull out the gem that will capture his soul, which also has the benefit of preventing others from trying to question or rez his soul, as well as lets me give the queen something to interrogate for his treasonous acts.
The dead body of the druid in the Republica's uniform, which he is official, will be found, along with trophies of his victims, the Keepers will think he was corrupted and slayed that poor young girl keeper.
All in all, this wasnt the set upon plan i came up with but in the end it turned out even better as some things like the hunting party showing up and the survivor to tell about it worked out really well.
Your character killed an innocent 13-year old girl to frame a player character?! Even the Mafia don't do that, man.
Well thats just using NPCs to fight the battles for each other.
Fact is the bastard has shown himself a traitor AGAIN by trying to turn the GateKeepers against your homeland... just kill the sod and be done with it. Then find the 'evidence'.
While I think what you did was excessive and nasty he's at least partially to blame - you couldn't let that girl turn a potential ally into an enemy.
Note: You may need to invest in some serious magic to stand up to magical interrogation yourself.
We have descided to discard our uniforms on the skeletons of old adventurers seeking the dragons treasure, albiet with alot of burned parts. We also try to make them as much like us as possible.
Now i just have the lone survivor to hunt down and end in 'demonic sacrifice' but not until he tells others about the encounter first, and he needs to die afterwards in order to further the demonic influence cant be outrun, and hopefully convince others it is a bad path to investigate.
So at the end of the first sessions that is exactly what we did, but this time i now have the entire party working with me in this. It is amazing how just one character was holding the whole thing up, as now the players arent' worried about offending Tim or his character sinse he is now gone.
I have also left Tim's scimitar there in one of the corpses, and not one player suggested we take it because it was a strong magic weapon. It so far really feels like the group is working togather a whole lot better atm anyway.
So after these events, we hunted down the survivor and made an example of him, even more so than i could have done on my own as now more people to work the ruse and the arcane archer could use some stronger magics to make it even more believable.
Again, i really didnt' want to slay the little druid girl, but in the grand plan i came up with at the time i required it, as well as i have been slaying all that Tim has been telling our story to, innocent or not, more of the prior than later.
I have really enjoyed playing the character, it also gave me the role play of playing the characters burden, as the sin doesnt kill for the enjoyment and actually despises killing the innocent, but duty is soo very important to him, more important than his morals or desires.
Was there better and more moral ways of dealing with the 'victims' that tim always talked to? Sure, but not for a sin. I had prior already mentioned to the gm and the hound master that i was going to finish the deed on Tims character which they were both more than fine with. I didnt see Sarah but sinse she is dating the gm she would most likely have known.
I fully intended as well to retire the character after the last stage which is returning to Frostholme where we fought 'The One'.
In the end I ended up being cursed by The One to never leave Frostholme again as my soul is tied to here, so that i may never strike at the nations enemies again. As well, i have become immortal like the ice of ages in our land and tied to the Frost Gate.
The gm added a bit more for me in that the Queen decided to take me as her king.. i was surprised by that, as was my character. I play him that he isnt surprised by very much at all, but i did play that he was surprised on that one. So the retirement of the character is the immortal assassin-king of Frostholme.
Tim on the other hand was ok at first with the death of his character. Though he had that look on his face that he was surprised, and it stayed there for the rest of the session, just like Blackbloodtroll's thespian gaming friend had.
Even though it has been said that conflict between us was going to ensue multiple times in game and out, and Tim has tried to have me killed multiple times, he still wasnt' expecting nor ready for it. Part of it could be as well that because i never threatened him nor attacked him, that he thought things would continue on as such, not realizing I have been holding back any action against him. Also the manner in how i ended his druid cant feel to good of a way to die for him. He didnt just die, he got called a traitor, told that he was responsible for all the innocent victims that he just realized he had talked to thru multiple game sessions, and then i kept his soul for the queen to question as well as it means his soul will never rest, forever a safeguard and prison.
Each player recieved a legacy for their character of sorts, similar to mine, as the next campaign is now to move like 100 years into the future and we play our characters progeny.
I have made a Druid/Witch Gate Keeper lol, Tim a bard who it is obvious to me at least, that he harbors ill will towards my character right off, lol. Well as many here predicted that would happen, it is happening.
So after the first session, i am deciding i think to bow out all togather for the time being to let things relax or cool and I will join my best buddies campaign that he wanted to start back up for characters we played in 3.5 4 campaign run, but now to PF as 4e was just too crappy to continue into.
Ya that is why i was thinking of just dropping the group. The gm doesnt want me to but i can tell it will be even worse this time and a uphill battle with Tim if i do stay.
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It would burn a bridge with Tim if you had the group choose between you or him. I would still let the whole group know (Tim included,) the reason why you are dropping the group is because you don't want to be butting heads with Tim. Be friendly and open about it, even apologizing for the drama. While you are not really the one who was causing the drama, apologizing covers your own behind, makes you look like the better man, and keeps friendships.
It also ensures that if Tim starts shooting off his mouth about you in any negative way, he has less of a leg to stand on.
Who knows, maybe he will piss off a few more people and will be asked to leave the group.
I agree if Tim is harboring ill-will towards your new PC already... that's just his bad attitude. I'd either see about talking to Tim about it and sorting it out, getting rid of him if he can't separate his feelings, or moving on to another group as you have said.
It's just unfortunate when you have a person in the group who can't tell RL from RP and they get their feathers all in a bunch over something that you did in-game and that carries over to other games.
I agree if Tim is harboring ill-will towards your new PC already... that's just his bad attitude. I'd either see about talking to Tim about it and sorting it out, getting rid of him if he can't separate his feelings, or moving on to another group as you have said.
It's just unfortunate when you have a person in the group who can't tell RL from RP and they get their feathers all in a bunch over something that you did in-game and that carries over to other games.
Over my years of gamming, this is something i have seen alot of.
For me, Players come in 2 types.
The first type are the players that get into character, and character is different from their personality. Usually made up of some interests but overall, you play a different person than yourself. Game is separate to them.
The other is players that dont separate the game from rl, and their characters always are just a game extension of themselves. So anything that happens in game they take it personally as it is a contest against their personal character. This is Tim.
I have heard many players say how "you make the decision, you did the action for your character, you are responsible, not your character." To me these people need to let go and relax, because they treat what you do in game the same to how you are in rl. Look, many of us play video games where you go around shooting people, blasting monsters, other humans as a serial killer, psycho, thief ext, but that doesnt make us that in the real world. They missed the part about fantasy.
So it is unfortunate but for the time being I would rather avoid a continuation of tim trying to kill me.
After reading about how you ended Tim's Druid, I was very impressed at the scope and forethought that you gave to the whole endeavor. You'd fit right in with my group very well! I'm happy that my current group doesn't have any one remotely like Tim in it and that we all get along in-character and in RL, but we also know it's a game and sometimes hard decisions have to be made in-game and we never take things personally. It comes down to maturity as well. I'm not sure how old Tim is and how long he's been playing TTRPG's, but sometimes it takes a veteran player to sit down and explain things to a newer guy/gal and get them to understand that in-game things are in-game only and not meant to be taken RL personally.
Hey, I appreciate the feedback guys.
It wasnt the original plan as some things change or show up, but the parts i had to improvise in worked out pretty well.
Ya Tims new bard apparently has had these 'stories' passed down from ages old (our game sessions) and his story favors his druid and tells about the evil assassin that eats babies. Not sure where the baby eating came in but i guess peeps wont want to go to Frostholme and mess with me, cause i apparently eat babies and all, lol.
Yeah, not sure how he got these 'stories passed down' if you went out of your way to kill anyone that was friends with him. The only ones left are the ones that see the Noble King of Frostholme, defender of the kingdom, and loyal servant of the Queen. Everyone that is left to tell the tale, would be telling a tale that favored your character, not the Druid. You totally slandered him without much chance for redemption. He was left hanging with the murder and sacrifice of innocent children and hunters. He was caught trying to summon demons and breach the sanctity of the realm. Before you leave the group (if you do), I'd make mention to you GM about that.
Since you're playing a Druid, if you stay in the group, make sure to correct the bard that the Druid he speaks of was discovered to be working for The One and had murdered one of the Gatekeepers and was trying to force open other gates to plunge the realm into an era of darkness. Since you're one of the Gate Keepers, you're speaking from authority when you say your clan regularly curses him (the Druid) and his traitorous ilk.
Damn son.
I loved the ending. Pretty epic stuff, especially considering the alternative "just stab him in his sleep".
It is somewhat sad that he's continuing with an antagonistic character, but it happens.
Thanks for sharing.
I talk to the hound masters player every other day or so as we are friends outside of gaming as well, and he is the one who brought Tim in. He said that Tim wants to try and 'ruin' my history thru his bardic story.
He btw does not like this at all as it also slanders his history as well as all people of Frostholme, including the Queen. He said he is complaining to the gm, mentioning similar things that Tels above said that I have also mentioned, hence where many goals of the plan came from. The gm told him he would curb it.
I talk to the GM everyday as he is a good friend and he said that he turned the 'imprisoned' druid soul into the big villian of the campaign, lol. He also said for the time being he is running my Gate Keeper Druid for me based off the history, concept outline i gave a the theme i set for him in the first session. He wants me to come back to the game but i said no for now, as if this is how Tim is now, then I dont want to be there to see it thrown in my face. I think the Gm wants to kill Tim, lol.
This has been a fun read! Thanks for posting it all. I hope you don't let this schmuck drive a wedge between you and the other players. I'm also kind of saddened that you are the one who left.
We too had a "revisionist" player in our group once, he was always trying to tell people "What really happened", but we all knew differently. Eventually we managed to not have him in the group and it's been fantastic.
Good luck in the future Nether!
Just to give a post update on how things can go after something like this. Tim has said to the gm if that he would have liked a chance to get 'even' with me but since i am not there he is trying to do it thru destroying my character in a way he thinks gets revenge.
The gm pretty much shut him down in game on his stories and so Tim has started to become antagonistic with other party members, pushing more for pvp. This is sad because he is driving the game down into a completely different game. I know as soon as Tim starts getting sassy with the gm's gf, he will prolly be rolling up a new character.
The hound master player who brought Tim in, said he is already making plans to kill Tims bard, lol, as he said Tim is annoying him to no end and sidetracking the campaign story. If you knew the hound master player, you would know he doesnt have alot of patience for shenanigans.
It is kind of strange in that, character death in game is a possibility, but who is responsible for killing your character makes all the difference, when it really shouldnt. A gm can kill your character just as maliciously as any player, even worse because gm controls the environment and if he wants you dead, it is a done deal no matter how good you think you are. Now we dont have this problem, but also no one 'maliciously' went after Tim either. I look at it as his character had that 'karma' coming.
In this case, Tim is taking a grudge and now he is de-evolving the game to more pvp focus which i dont think is really going to go anywhere positive let alone accomplishing any adventure / story.
This also to me comes across as a sign of maturity level, in which case Tim has failed at.
The gm already asked if he gives Tim the boot, if i would consider coming back to the game. I am debating that, as i do like the progression of the game world 100 years into the future and playing my assassins prodigy, especially after such a solid ending for him, and i really like the idea of player a gate keeper that has demonic blood running thru his veins, part of being tied to the demon in the Frostgate.
So should i have Tim ousted to go back or let them work it out, though i suspect that would be a downward spiral ending in destroyed campaign and character/player fallout.
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Return to your group and send Tim packing. He obviously doesn't care about the story as much as you and the other players do.
He can go play PVP someplace else. In the meantime, you and your friends can enjoy your game (as you had been before Tim's arrival).
There is the possibility for friction, as Tim hasn't seemed to show much maturity at the table, so I'm unsure of how he'd react with the info given at least, after being pushed out of the game.
Of course the only one, again, that may have a problems after Tim leaves is the hound master. However, that's only because he'll probably have to deal with Tim more often then the other players, being his friend and all.
In the end though, I think it'd be best for all the players and even the DM for Tim to leave. Then the DM can have his story and the players can play without other players constantly being attacked by another player.
It's either one player having his fun or all but one player having his fun. Seems an easy choice to me at least.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I would tell the GM you are not coming back until Tim is gone for good. If you and him were at the same game table he would only pull the game to pieces trying to get his revenge. He never sounded like a responsible player, or a mature one.
Having him completely gone before you return would mean the game is more stable and everyone can play the game they want to play.
You can’t solve a OOC problem IC.
You need to sit down with him and the DM and discuss this like adults.
If I were in that GMs place I would be trying to get rid of Tim regardless of whether or not you came back. If were a reasonable sort I would say, "Fix yourself or you’re going to get the boot." So, in your position I would help justify that for the GM and tell him you will come back if Tim is gone, or possibly if he stops his garbage.
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In my games when someone wasn't meshing well with my already existing core group of players, I would generally talk openly with my core group and get their opinions (vote) on whether to boot the new guy. Generally, antagonistic people were slain mercilessly in game and told not to come back out of game.
BTW, this has been an awesome read. The story seems quite memorable and your character was really interesting, sounds like a good build.