SO I recently died in my current campaign and I've decided (though open for alternate classes) to run with a Paladin (Divine Hunter -2)/Bard (Archaeologist -3).
The current group is a Warpriest, Unchained Monk, and Alchemist. Leaving me to fill the skillful trap-finder role while also offering some Melee help.
I'm focusing on STR as opposed to DEX so I'm my current idea is to go
DEX 14
STR 18
CON 12
INT 13
CHA 14
WIS 8
and
LINGERING PERFORMANCE
CRAFT WONDROUS ITEM
ADDITIONAL TRAITS (Vagabond Child, Fate's Favored, MAgical Knaoc, and need a 3rd)
SKILL FOCUS (PERCEPTION) - Human Race Variant
PRECISE SHOT - Divine Hunter
At 6 I'll get Power attack from Archaeologist 4, and I'm looking for anything that I might have missed.
Can I get some optimize help?!??!
- No 3.5 material.
- I do get to craft wondrous items at half off if I can make them by taking 10 on a spellcrafting check so I can load up on low level magic items.
I'm interested in variant builds, but trapfinding is a prerequisite and don't bother with the "summon a monster you don't need trap-finding line". A lack of trapfinding is TPK city in my corner of the gaming universe
Hi,
Here are my suggestions:
1. Forget the paladin levels and go full bard
2. Starting at 5th level, I would go archery, but if you prefer melee... well, it's ok, I suppose
3. More wis, less int. For melee, more Con, less Dex.
4. Forget extra traits and skill focus. Lingering Performance is a feat tax, so keep it. Get some combat feats. Power Attack, Arcane strike, Improved Initiative... stick with the classic ones, they're good.
5. I am not sure about craft wondrous item, especially that early, but if you have the use of it your campaign and nothing better to do with your feat, it isn't a bad selection.
6. Get a lesser rod of extend spell to double the duration of your heroism spells.
At 5th level, your luck bonus is +3 thanks to the fate's favored trait and you get another +2 from Heroism. That's a net +5 to almost every roll (except for damages, +3 only). You should be quite competent in combat. Out of combat, you're a bard, so you're good even without trying.
Definitely agree with high WIS. You're burning a feat to make up for low WIS, why not just raise the WIS. You'll run out of need for the extra skill points eventually.
Hi,
Here are my suggestions:
1. Forget the paladin levels and go full bard
2. Starting at 5th level, I would go archery, but if you prefer melee... well, it's ok, I suppose
3. More wis, less int. For melee, more Con, less Dex.
4. Forget extra traits and skill focus. Lingering Performance is a feat tax, so keep it. Get some combat feats. Power Attack, Arcane strike, Improved Initiative... stick with the classic ones, they're good.
5. I am not sure about craft wondrous item, especially that early, but if you have the use of it your campaign and nothing better to do with your feat, it isn't a bad selection.
6. Get a lesser rod of extend spell to double the duration of your heroism spells.At 5th level, your luck bonus is +3 thanks to the fate's favored trait and you get another +2 from Heroism. That's a net +5 to almost every roll (except for damages, +3 only). You should be quite competent in combat. Out of combat, you're a bard, so you're good even without trying.
1. That's setting me up for very crappy saves, bard spells vs +2 to all saves is a discussion worth having.
2. The alchemist is an archer and the archery shtick is way overplayed in my eyes, not to mention it essentially takes all my feats.3. Don't forget I'm the trapfinder. Dumping Dex doesn't seem like a good idea.
4. Powewr Attack is 6 and Arcane Strike 7, The skill focus is for the trapfinding.
5. Agreed. It's also the only way to guarantee getting exactly the wondrous items I desire
6. I'll look into it
I like two ninja levels for the ki pool extra attack and piddly sneak attack (mostly to open up a few talents) but otherwise I wouldn't dip out of archeologist.
I like two ninja levels for the ki pool extra attack and piddly sneak attack (mostly to open up a few talents) but otherwise I wouldn't dip out of archeologist.
ninja is a non-starter simply because...I don't like ninjas.
I did drop the additional traits in favor of power attack
1. That's setting me up for very crappy saves, bard spells vs +2 to all saves is a discussion worth having.
2. The alchemist is an archer and the archery shtick is way overplayed in my eyes, not to mention it essentially takes all my feats.
3. Don't forget I'm the trapfinder. Dumping Dex doesn't seem like a good idea.
4. Powewr Attack is 6 and Arcane Strike 7, The skill focus is for the trapfinding.
5. Agreed. It's also the only way to guarantee getting exactly the wondrous items I desire
6. I'll look into it
1. I personally choose the spells, especially considering your party: the bard has a better spell list than the warpriest and the achemist (yeah, ok, alchemists do not cast spells), with sweet early-entries. Between Heroism and A.Luck, your saves are everything but bad.
2. ok3. I am not sure how your stats are generated (looks like a 20-point buy, with +1 Str at lv.4), but I would still swap your scores as follow:
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 08, Wis 12, Cha 14.
So -1 dex and +2 wis modifiers compared to your original stats. Being single-classed, you would get +1 on Perception and Disable Device checks from your Clever Explorer ability. Your disable device score remains unchanged. For Perception, see below.
4. see point 3: you get +2 from Wis and +1 from Clever Explorer. You can get rid of Skill Focus and keep the same Perception score.
So, my suggested feat progression: Lingering Performance (1), Improved Initiative (1), Wondrous Item (3), Power Attack (4), Arcane Strike (5).
5. Craft feats are really campaign-dependent, so this is up to you.
6. you definitely should.
EDIT: or just go DEX-based, drop Improved Initiative and Craft Wondrous Item for Weapon finesse and EWP (elven curved blade).
I find it a little sad for you if non-paladin saves but 2 good saves = very crappy saves. because that means every character you make needs to be paladin 2 or has very crappy saves.
I find it a little sad for you if non-paladin saves but 2 good saves = very crappy saves. because that means every character you make needs to be paladin 2 or has very crappy saves.
It gets even worse.
He is 2 good saves and a flat +5 to everything from level 5 onwards. His saves are comparable to a Paladin with <20 Charisma.
Archaeologists have ridiculously good saves. Stacking that with Paladin on a high Cha character will shoot him into autopass territory, since he was already on the edge of it to begin with (+10 will at level 5 with 10 wisdom). In fact, with the delays to his bard and archaeologist abilities he won't really be ahead by much till level 6 or 7, and he will cripple his spellcasting in the meantime.
1. That's setting me up for very crappy saves, bard spells vs +2 to all saves is a discussion worth having.
2. The alchemist is an archer and the archery shtick is way overplayed in my eyes, not to mention it essentially takes all my feats.
3. Don't forget I'm the trapfinder. Dumping Dex doesn't seem like a good idea.
4. Powewr Attack is 6 and Arcane Strike 7, The skill focus is for the trapfinding.
5. Agreed. It's also the only way to guarantee getting exactly the wondrous items I desire
6. I'll look into it1. I personally choose the spells, especially considering your party: the bard has a better spell list than the warpriest and the achemist (yeah, ok, alchemists do not cast spells), with sweet early-entries. Between Heroism and A.Luck, your saves are everything but bad.
2. ok
3. I am not sure how your stats are generated (looks like a 20-point buy, with +1 Str at lv.4), but I would still swap your scores as follow:
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 08, Wis 12, Cha 14.
So -1 dex and +2 wis modifiers compared to your original stats. Being single-classed, you would get +1 on Perception and Disable Device checks from your Clever Explorer ability. Your disable device score remains unchanged. For Perception, see below.
4. see point 3: you get +2 from Wis and +1 from Clever Explorer. You can get rid of Skill Focus and keep the same Perception score.
So, my suggested feat progression: Lingering Performance (1), Improved Initiative (1), Wondrous Item (3), Power Attack (4), Arcane Strike (5).
5. Craft feats are really campaign-dependent, so this is up to you.
6. you definitely should.EDIT: or just go DEX-based, drop Improved Initiative and Craft Wondrous Item for Weapon finesse and EWP (elven curved blade).
If you are going DEX based look into slashing grace for DEX to damage. Drop power attack (for now) and arcane strike and take weapon focus and slashing grace. This would get you +6 to damage with elven curve blade. Pick up power attack next and you will be doing a lot of damage in melee especially when you have archeologist luck and heroism going.
People are claiming that Archaeologists luck is like a permanent save boost. However this is simply not true.
For one it's a swift action so activating it outside of combat in response to say a trap triggering isn't gonna happen.
A non Half-Orc Archaeologist has 6 rounds of Luck per day (sure you have lingering performance so that makes it very useful for combat) so you can't really use luck on all your skill rolls if you are assuming 3 combats per day which will last between 2 and 6 rounds.
I still agree that Dipping Paladin isn't worth your time however. Instead try a combat style that gets you multiple attacks per round to get the most out of heroism and Archaeologists luck.
When I say crappy Saves, I'm referencing the fact I have a -1 to Will Save due to 8 WIS and No bonus at all to Fortitude and a 12 Con (going straight Bard). I don't see how adding a +CHA at all times especially considering it's my secondary STAT) is a negative. Not to mention, every spell I'm "gimping" myself by not being able to cast due to dipping can be used by a scroll.
I'm not trying to reject all suggestions (seeing as how I took the power attack advice over additional traits), but I'm not willing to take someone's advice based on unsound logic.
I'd take near autopass on saves vs 2 more levels of Bard spells. At level 5, not having Mirror Image or Heroism, is no real gimp especially considering I get them next level IMHO. Glitterdust is a great spell, but I got some scrolls for that..
People are claiming that Archaeologists luck is like a permanent save boost. However this is simply not true.
For one it's a swift action so activating it outside of combat in response to say a trap triggering isn't gonna happen.
...
I still agree that Dipping Paladin isn't worth your time however. Instead try a combat style that gets you multiple attacks per round to get the most out of heroism and Archaeologists luck.
I appreciate your thoughts, I'm trying to decide if a +1 bonus to pretty much everything (saves, attack, and hit) a few levels earlier through Luck and more bard spells, better than the massive save bonus, minor smite evil and lay on hands, access to better armor and all martial weapons, I get from Paladin.
I've died or been rendered useless through failed saves far more than caught s!*# out of luck over a missing spell.
e.
.... (+10 will at level 5 with 10 wisdom). In fact, with the delays to his bard and archaeologist abilities he won't really be ahead by much till level 6 or 7, and he will cripple his spellcasting in the meantime.
How am I +10 wis at level 5? You must be considering Luck as a constant bonus which I do not. I'm already level 5 so essentially next level I will be ahead by much
If you are going DEX based look into slashing grace for DEX to damage. Drop power attack (for now) and arcane strike and take weapon focus and slashing grace. This would get you +6 to damage with elven curve blade. Pick up power attack...
If slashing grace worked with the elven curve blade I would love this path (it's my favorite weapon) but it doesn't.
So it's either a Dex or STR based Bard Archaeologist -5 or a STR based Paladin-2/Archaeologist -3.
Trapfinding naturally lends itself to the DEX build, but there is nothing like wrecking shop with a trusty two-hander...or longsword
Yeah I think I'm going to raise Wis to 10 and Int down to 10 too. May even go trapper/ranger 1 and then just straight bard
I think that's a better option than what you were planning
Yeah. While traps are a real threat with this GM, they are not constant enough to warrant such focus. The Paladin dip does set me back spells wise but provide good saves, at some point it is overkill too.
The ranger/bars build makes me A much better buffer, better skill selection, and even the ever +1 attavk/damage for all untyped
May even go trapper/ranger 1 and then just straight bard
So, no arcane caster and no social ability in the group?
Pretty unwise, IMHO.@ Alex Mack: yes, half-orc is a race which offers more synergies with the archaeologist than human.
May even go trapper/ranger 1 and then just straight bardSo, no arcane caster and no social ability in the group?
Pretty unwise, IMHO.
How is a bard not filling both of those?
I meant Ranger (Trapper/Freebooter)-1/Bard-4 instead of the Archaeologist Bard
Given the nature of your party it seems that a full caster is the missing element :< (warpriest, monk have the front lines, alchemist does ranged dps). My suggestion is to run a summoner. Set the eidolon up as a trapper (2 EP spent for +8 to perception, disable device. The rest spent on making it sneaky? With a few cheap iouns and masterwork tools its quite easy to make a trapping beast. Last one I cranked out was sitting at +13 disable device, +15 perception at level 1). You can find magic traps, you just can't disable them via skill (15ft stick/readied actions does wonders) unless your GM is one of those "everything mutates into your character's specific weakness" types.
Summoner spell list is solid and fairly versatile. Not much else to say, crafting is still an option, you can be pretty much as effective as you otherwise would on the frontline if you want.
If you're deadset on Ranger 1/Bard X take a look at Freebooter Ranger. It stacks fully with trapper, is much better than one favored enemy selection, and stacks with everything (whoo untyped bonuses!)
Build your character 1 Bard/1 Ranger/X Bard.
Feats
1: Lingering Performance
3: Power Attack
5: Cleave/Furious Focus
7: Cornugon Smash (my suggestion)
If you want to really spike your perception score, go half elf instead of human. Grab skill focus (perception) for free. Helfs get Keen Senses (+2 Perception). Swap out multi talented for something shiny (I like Arcane Training because wizard wands are amazing, there's also Darkvision). The favored class bonus for Helf bards is fairly strong for this character (+1 round of performance a day). Quick math: Perception is at 5 (item)+3 (skill focus)+3 (class skill)+2 (racial)+6 (ranks) = +19 before stat bonus (or penalty).
Drop starting gold into Eyes of the Eagle, Masterwork Thieves Tools, Dusty Rose Ioun (cracked), Magenta Prism Ioun (Cracked) and a reach weapon. Load up on armor spikes, drop some ranks into intimidate and bam! You play a reach, double tap debuffer at 7.
Intimidate looks like 6 (ranks)+3 (class skill)+2 (masterwork tool or ioun) = +11 before bonus. This can be higher via traits/etc.
Summoners are not allowed. I did see the same hole as you but I'm really not a fan of seeker oracle or sorceror. I thought about trapper/freebooter into Druid or Animal Cleric (feather domain) but ultimately decided the group will have to be without a full caster.
I'm with the trapper/freebooter dip, now I'm weighing vanilla bard vs arcane duelist.
I meant Ranger (Trapper/Freebooter)-1/Bard-4 instead of the Archaeologist Bard
My bad... I tought you were going full ranger.
Apologies.
Trapper - ranger (1)/ vanilla bars - archer. Jesus that's so cliche and yet I'm probably going to do it....