Bloodrager Arcane Archer (Rate it?)


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


How is this for a build idea?

Race: Human (+2 Dex)
Base Class: Urban Bloodrager

Why? Controlled Bloodrage. You get a straight +4 that you can distribute between Str, Dex and Con. As an archer you can bloodrage to push that dex up to really high levels.

Stats:

Str: 16 (For the +3 bow damage)
Dex: 14+2=16 (Because he is an archer, turns into 20 with controlled bloodrage)
Con: 14 (HP always nice, and helps with bloodrage)
Int: 10 (No penalties)
Wis: 10 (No penalties)
Cha: 14 (All the Charisma you need as a bloodrager, plus helps with your new class skill of diplomacy)

Bloodline: Celestial

Ok, I know that this one isn't that good. I hear you! The lvl1 ability is only for melee attacks. The lvl4 ability gives cold and acid resistance...nothing all that special. So why this? Well...

Arcane Archer

Requirements: BaB +6
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus

Now, as a human Bloodrager he starts with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at lvl 1. At lvl 3 he takes Rapid Shot (because why wouldn't you?). At lvl 5 you take Many Shot. Then at lvl 6, because he has the Celestial Bloodline, he takes Weapon Focus (unlocked because of that bloodline).

This means that at lvl 6, without dipping into any other class, the urban bloodrager has met all of the prestige class requirements. He has also gained his second attack!

So at lvl 7 he takes his first level of Arcane Archer. He has done so as a full BaB class, no multiclassing. All of his arrows now count as being magical...a huge saver of gold!

All together...

By lvl 7, he will be at +7/+2 when shooting from BaB. Bloodrage as a free action. So he now has Dex20 when shooting. That's a straight +5 to hit. Both Rapid Shot and Many Shot say that they work "When making a full-attack action with a bow." So that means, you make a full attack action and both activate. So the archer is now firing 3 arrows, and if the first lands then it hits twice. That is the potential for hitting the enemy 4 times in one round.

From there, dip once more into Urban Bloodrager for your 8th level. Why? Because at 7th level, the urban bloodrager has a lvl 1 and 2 spell. As an urban bloodrager gets adopted magic at that level, letting him pick that spell from the bard or magus spell lists. That really opens things up for you, especially as...

lvl 9 go back into Arcane Archer. You can now place those lvl 1 or 2 spells onto your arrows, and given that you have 3 classes worth of spells to pick from, you have a decent pick for this. Forget the bloodrager from here on out. Sure, 'conviction' from the celestial bloodline isn't bad, but the Arcane Archer class gives better perks.

At lvl 9, your arrows can hurt just about anything. Instead of being normal +1, you choose whether they do an extra 1d6 fire, electrical or frost damage. They're magical for the purpose of getting past damage reduction.

As far as I can tell, its hard to make a better archer than this. Even if you go straight fighter or ranger, you need to shell out alot of gold for those magical arrows. Also unlike those classes, you can cast "frigid touch" as your level 2 spell and fire it at the enemy.

Based on the language of the ability:

"Imbue Arrow (Su): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted."

The arrow itself still lands, so it does damage.

So 1d8 damage for the composite longbow. +3 from strength. +1d6 frost from the arrow's normal free enchantment. And the arrow can carry a spell on it, such as shocking grasp. So instead of it being range 'touch' it is now range 'arrow.' The attack does a further +5d6 cold damage.

All together... 1d8+3+1d6+5d6 damage. If it hits, then the enemy takes a further 1d8+3+1d6 damage due to many shot. 2 more attacks also come his way.

Oh yes...and the final plus of this? In Pathfinder Society you can now play an "Aasimar" without having to unlock it. ;)

So am I reading all of these rules right? And am I right in that an urban bloodrager built like this could make a damned nasty archer?

The Exchange

No you can't place a touch spell into an imbue arrow. It is only area spells.

SU abilities are also a standard action so using Imbue arrow is not possible while full attacking.

To create an aasimar, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation in PFS.

All this being accounted for it the class can still be a reasonable archer because they are a full bab character with some spells.

Sczarni

Ragoz wrote:


To create an aasimar, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation in PFS.

Reading is a great skill to have. The character is a human with the Celestial bloodline.

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Manyshot requires BAB +6, so you can't take it at level 5. Save it for level 7 instead, and take Arcane Strike at level 5 for the damage boost. I'd also recommend dropping Charisma down to 13, and using the points to get Dex to 17, so you can have it at 18 starting at level 4.

Ditto everything Ragoz said as well.

The Exchange

Caïen wrote:
Ragoz wrote:


To create an aasimar, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation in PFS.
Reading is a great skill to have. The character is a human with the Celestial bloodline.

I saw it was a human. I just assumed he might want to make an actual aasimar at some point. It's not like clarifying something was harmful but thanks anyway.


Dotting for later


I once played a D&D 3.5 elf cleric with Dex 19 who dipped a level of wizard to become an arcane archer. I had fun imbuing arrows with divine area-of-effect spells that were never meant to be cast at range.

Nevertheless, the arcane archer "Spells per Day" class ability looks impressive for a wizard, sorcerer, witch, cleric, or oracle where spells are 80% of their effectiveness, but it is much less helpful on a bloodrager where spells are a mere 10% of their effectiveness. The bloodrager won't gain additional bloodrage nor bloodline abilities while taking levels of arcane archer. And the full BAB progression of the arcane archer is no improvement for the bloodrager. I presume you are designing this combination of classes for fun rather than for power.

Urban Bloodrager is the right archetype. However, your bloodrage might choose Strength for the +4 morale bonus from bloodrage occasionally. The urban bloodrager does fine in melee combat by boosting his Strength, to the surprise of enemies who slipped past the frontline to harass the archer. And that provides a time to use those 1st-level melee bloodline powers.

Celestial Bloodline is only one of three bloodlines that offer Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. Destined and Elemental are the other two.

Imbue Arrow imbues only area-of-effect spells. The bloodrager's 1st-level area-of-effect spells are Burning Hands, Color Spray, and Expeditious Excavation. Burning Hands and Color Spray have the caster as the point of origin, which is probably what Imbue Arrow means by "center." This means that the target hit by the arcane archer's arrow won't be inside the area of effect. That does not make them useless; instead, you can shoot one enemy and fry another at a distance, or shoot the ground in front of them. The 2nd-level spells Gust of Wind, Sonic Scream, and Tremor Blast have the same point-of-origin problem, but Glitterdust and Stone Call have a central point-of-origin compatible with Imbue Arrow's phrasing. Stone Call will be great for an archer, since it creates difficult terrain to slow opponents for another round of archery. Sonic Scream is weird: it creates its area of effect three times as a standard action, so that might not work with Imbue Arrow.

Imbuing arrows requires spellcasting, so it cannot be combined with full-attack feats such as Rapid Shot and Manyshot. Arcane Strike would be a better early investment. Bloodrager has caster level equal to class level, so Arcane Strike gives a +2 to damage by 5th level. With Arcane Strike and Deadly Aim for damage, it would be worthwhile to design your character with Str 14 and Dex 18 instead of 16 each.


Some really good points here, my thanks to you guys. I really like the idea of stone call with the arcane archer. That just sounds like a great archer trick.

Also, I am starting to see what you mean Mathmuse about the lack of power. In retrospect, cleric or oracle seems like a better choice. Definately something to consider...

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Also, the ability to make your arrows magical is not the gold saver you think, because you don't need magic arrows, only a magic bow. PRD: "Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon."


Huh...alright then. That makes a huge difference...


Actually, it looks like this would make for a nice Switch Hitter. You only need a Composite Bow (made for you're STR), and then you can spring for a magic melee weapon. You can Rage for STR if the terrain makes using you're Bow problematic (and Arcane Strike works for both melee and ranged).

Take Destined Bloodline and you have Destined Strike to boost you're melee attacks. Looks like it would be a really fun build.


I went with a bard Archeologist myself, adding a longbow from Heirloom weapon. While it was, admittedly, lower in BAB than this character, only by a couple points and that's offset by a larger amount of feats from rogue tricks and larger spell selection to choose from to add aoe, plus Fates favored and their "song". A tuned Bowstring became imperative though.

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