Hello all.
I've been reading a lot and me and my party tried to build a Dwarvish Kingdom using a party of 5 dwarves and the rules from Ultimate Campaign. It was super challenging, daring, and we got emotionally bounded, but now that kingdom has grown and we felt like it's time to try something new (specially because people wanted to try other chars and leadership roles).
Thing is, the more I read, the least I wanted to play a high charisma character. I'll be the "ruler" and I'm really interested in playing a wizard (specially a human one). I'm aware elves have some mechanical benefits, but the main problem is: how to make an efficient ruler that has charisma as a dump stat? Talking to the GM brought no new ideas, so I come to you all for help.
Is there a way to make an Intelligent Ruler? Wouldn't a smart, strategistic mind be a better ruler than a "guy-we-all-like"? Can you also help me making an OP non-elven (hopefully, but not necessarily, human) wizard (archetypes, new spells, new feats, traits from Ultimate Campaign, etc). We'll be using "only" The Core Rulebook, The Advanced, The Ultimate Magic, The Ultimate Combat and the Ultimate Campaign. I'm aware of other books, but the GM feels it's better to limit to what he already read and knows. Honestly so do I.
Thank you all.
Just a thought; not sure if you have thought of it, or not.
You could just ask your GM if you could use your INT in place of your CHA.
Amongst a group of friends, I don't see such a thing causing an issue.
As for the construction of your OP character, I'm not really one for power building.
Can you take traits?
This trait (Clever Wordplay) allows you to make one charisma based skill intelligence based.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/clever-wordplay
Alternately, if your wizard would rather rule through crushing people's egos he could take Bruising Intellect.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bruising-intellect
They're both social traits so you can only take one or the other. I'll keep looking and post more traits if I find another similar one.
DrNegative, we talked to the GM about it, and we were trying to avoid "rule-bending" unless we ran out of options.
The Guy With A Face, brilliant! Clever Wordplay would be precisely what I need, but that isn't from one of the books I mentioned right? (or did I overlooked it somewhere?)
If you can talk the GM into one additional source, Quests and Campaigns has a trait that lets you use INT in place of CHA on Diplomacy and Bluff checks to convince people. Otherwise, it's a roleplaying challenge, really - what skills can you bring that would make you indispensable to kingdom leadership?
FWIW, it actually makes sense for a government to take on some high-INT leaders even if they are low-CHA - they're the planners and advisors, the ones making things run smoothly. Not everyone in government has to be the monarch, or even all that visible.
Ah, whoops. Sorry, forgot you were limited to certain books. :/
I got nothin then.
EDIT: Ask if you can use the trait (just the trait, not the whole book). I know you and your DM would rather avoid any more sources, but other than using spells to buff your charisma I don't think there's much you can do to improve your social skills.
I'd say "make an enchanter," but openly mind controlling people generally makes you lose allies pretty quickly.
Thanks for all the comments.
Avoron, About "powerful", I meant very, very high spell CD, save or die spells, dominate, and things that make the life for the DM just hard (and the party happy, since we usually have 2 DPS, I don't mind ultra high damage). I like the idea of having several spells, to prepare in advance, so "limiting" to a thematic (like fire or ice) would be the opposite.
Rennaivx, What "FWIW" means? And yes, I agree, smart people should rule, not "famous" people, maybe making a magocracy... still thinking, I'll talk to my team. And it was suggested that I'd be the Treasurer, instead of the Ruler, but I really wanted to be the Ruler (since I was the High Priest on the past one, and throughtfully disliked to roleplay it), so I dunno, the books just made so much worth regarding Charisma.
I like the idea of having several spells, to prepare in advance, so "limiting" to a thematic (like fire or ice) would be the opposite.
Well if you want to be a dps, the Advanced Player's Guide (which I think you can use) has the Admixture School. It modifies the evocation school powers. You can change any energy damage spell to fire, cold, electricity, or acid multiple times per day. Its always helpful to have the right energy type for the job when blasting.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo--- arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/evocation/admixture
What do you think you're missing out on where an intelligent person wouldn't be able to rule?
The rules say that Kingdoms traits (Stability, Economy and one more I just forgot) adds the Charisma of the ruler to them. It's what I'm looking for. The Ruler is the only leadership role that adds a stat to all Kingdom traits. That's the problem.
Honestly Getting the traits to use int for cha skills from other books should be an easier sell than bending the rules. Traits are pretty simple snippets of options and it gives you the character you want to build.
Now keep in mind a high int will get many skills points, and at later levels you may learn to be better at social skills that a high cha low int character as they may need to bounce their skills around, and you have have plenty.
Smart people should rule, but thats now things even in real life often are. We see charismatic idiots placed in charge all the time.
For power building your character well I generally group a casters in 3 types. Blaster, controller, utility. in combat Controllers I find are most power they have save or suck spells and end fights often in one spell. Second is utility, making your pouncing barbarian flying and hasted so he can kills things faster. Lastly is blasters, they do damage spells and can still be impressive, but have many limits.
Now you can have a mix, but if you want someone powerful you should pick one type to specialize in. What one would you like me to give advice on?
Finlanderboy, I believe it would be a Controller, quite what I'm looking for.
And yes, charismatic idiots everywhere!!! I will talk to the DM about the trait thing.
Thanks all for the great help.
Finlanderboy, I believe it would be a Controller, quite what I'm looking for.
And yes, charismatic idiots everywhere!!! I will talk to the DM about the trait thing.
Thanks all for the great help.
Controller, you want to work with conjuration. Those spells almost always ignore SR. SR is another way for them to avoid your spells. Aqeuous orb will suck up that golem and keep him at bay very easily. evocation and charms usually does nothing.
The teleportation school of Conj from the advanced players is awesome. The acid dart is a touch stronger cantrip limited amount of times a day. Shift will allow you to Bamf through cages, grapples(these normally will kill you) and such with ease.
Anything that raises your DC is the way to go. I would highly suggest 20 int off the bat. Spell Focus Conj. AT first level you have grease, it is great for low level and remains solid the whole game. At level 11 in pfs I greased the bow devil with a 25 dc that he needed to make twice and stopped him cold. Create pit, aqueous orb. These spells turn hard fights into easy one by removing a bad guy fromt he fight while your team offs those still up.
Now you may not want to completely dump cha, maybe an 11 or 12. The reason is. A dip in dual cursed oracle from ult magic will get you misforture. That allow you as an immediate action to force anyone including yourself to roll a d20 once a day. Your buddy rolls a 1 on a vital save, misfotrune him. The bad guy gets two nat 20s on the super grease above, misfortune one. SO your save or suck becomes very dangerous. Plus you get some versatility with cleric spells. You do not want to , just a very powerful option for save or suck.(you could get the deaf curse, and ALL your wizard spells are now silent, and tongues could easily be negated by your friends picking up one language)
If your DM lets you buy magical items a metamagic rod of persistence is awesome. For 8k it is like a bazooka for save or suck casters.
Opposed school necromancy I am not a fan of. You could also go divination As the only divination spell I EVER used is detect magic(especially if you plan to go oracle and then get oracle DM).
EXCELLENTE SUGGESTIONS Finlanderboy. Thank you!
We'll have an oracle on the team to do that for me, but brilliant anyway!
Thank you all, I highly appreciate it.
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The rules say that Kingdoms traits (Stability, Economy and one more I just forgot) adds the Charisma of the ruler to them. It's what I'm looking for. The Ruler is the only leadership role that adds a stat to all Kingdom traits. That's the problem.
Note that I believe you chose ONE of those each month to add CHA to. I don't think you can add CHA to all 3 on a given month.
"Benefit(s): Choose one kingdom attribute (Economy, Loyalty, or Stability). Add your Charisma modifier to this attribute. If your kingdom's Size is 26–100, choose a second kingdom attribute and add your Charisma modifier to it as well. If your kingdom's Size is 101 or more, choose a third kingdom attribute and add your Charisma modifier to it too."
Also, the ruler is not the only one who can do this. The spymaster also can do it with dex.
Edit: Also note that it is largely irrelevant in the overall scheme of things. Building one building will take the place of this bonus. It is mainly only relevant just when starting out, and you will want to choose it to benefit economy then.
FWIW=For What It's Worth. My textspeak is showing. ;)
Nennafir, as you said yourself, after a kingdom's Size is 101 or more, Ruler's Charisma is added to all 3 (look for the words AS WELL, and TOO), while the Spymaster only have the benefit to give to one trait at any given month.
Just to conclude how things went: The DM accepted using a modified Clever Wordplay, since Clever Wordplay trait affects a SKILL, not a particular use of Charisma per se. Therefore, instead of the actual use of Clever Wordplay (let's say, use Int instead of Cha for Diplomacy), I'll keep using my Charisma (10) for charisma-based skills, but will use Int to Kingdom-related rolls, when Charisma is called to.
Thank you all for your suggestions :D
I really appreciate it.
Glad everything worked out for you!
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Nennafir, as you said yourself, after a kingdom's Size is 101 or more, Ruler's Charisma is added to all 3 (look for the words AS WELL, and TOO), while the Spymaster only have the benefit to give to one trait at any given month.
Just to conclude how things went: The DM accepted using a modified Clever Wordplay, since Clever Wordplay trait affects a SKILL, not a particular use of Charisma per se. Therefore, instead of the actual use of Clever Wordplay (let's say, use Int instead of Cha for Diplomacy), I'll keep using my Charisma (10) for charisma-based skills, but will use Int to Kingdom-related rolls, when Charisma is called to.
Thank you all for your suggestions :D
I really appreciate it.
lol...That is what I get for not reading everything. Thanks!
Also, glad it worked out for you.