Hi, i'm a new DM and am running a new adventure for my friends. in this adventure one of my players is playing a human who switched bodies with a fox (from some horrible experiment). The idea is that he is questing to aquire a new body and on his adventures he will get opportunities to "upgrade" from time to time until he finds a way to get a proper body (the upgrades can be like, becoming a bear or a hawk or maybe even a construct).
now, the idea is good and all, but i am having a hard time figuring out how to make a character sheet for him. i understand that he is supposed to be limited by his new form, but i want him to have the ability to progress in levels like the rest of the team, by gaining skills and feats (for the sake of him having fun).
if anyone has any idea as how to go about this, i would love to hear it! thanks for the help!
some additional information:
1) i assume that because he switched bodies, he would have the physical attributes of a fox and the mental attributes that he had before the switch. as would be the same with any other form he takes later.
2) we have yet to decide what class he would be because we don't know if he can have a class or how it would transfer from one form to another. we don't even know what class he would be if he were to one day find a new body.
thank you for your time!
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Well you can always advance him using the animal companion rules instead of class levels.
Also there wouldn't be any hindrances for him if he is a sorcerer, assuming he can talk, if not then he will need silent spell, which will suck but it can work.
Alternatively he could be a druid without spells until 6th level when he can take wild speech feat. Or maybe there is a druid archatype that drops spells for more companion stuff or wild shapes, not sure.
Personally I like the idea of a fox alchemist who has a hireling to brew his potions for him, interpreting what the fox needs and when.
Fox fighter could be cool, with weapon focus bite and other feats that focus on natural weapons, wearing a suit of full plate with a slide down visor amuses me.
A fox brawler or monk would be terrifying
As would a fox witch with a fox familiar.
he can talk freely. but can an animal actually gain class levels? say he was a rogue (sly fox kinda thing), could he be proficient with weapons? could he pick a lock? how do i advance him?
do i take the the base fox attributes, changethe the int and wis to fit the character, and then give him a class?
edit: also, lets say at level four he added an attribute point to dex. then one day he switches to the body of a bear. should i let him reallocate the point, or do i make him keep it?
i'm confused by my own musings. @_@
I would look up the physical stats for a fox and then allow him to build his character as though those stats were the standard scores of 10 you automatically receive (assuming point buy). He is physically weak, but dexterous, tiny and hard to hit. He does not have hands, but if you're allowing him to cast spells without hindrance that's not a big deal. It'll be difficult for him to carry any gear, but I suppose he could buy up strength a bit if he really wanted to.
I would be wary allowing him to change form into a combat equipped animal, however, when he changes form I would allow the standard physical stays of that form to simply replace his former scores, carrying over any applied bonuses (like the point from reaching level 4(
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You might want to have a look at this. Only problem with the standard monster advancement is that you would still end up with a character that has 2 int, and can't communicate, which doesn't really function as a PC. There's a couple of things you can do to fix that though.
Stat wise, you can either take the standard fox stats and apply the effects of the awaken spell to get mental stats that are acceptable for a PC. Or you could have custom racial stat modifiers for a fox, say -2 str, +2 dex, +2 wis and let the player build accordingly. Or you could even have them pick a race that they were beforehand, and only have their physical stats change, while their mental stats stay the same, similar to a reincarnate spell.
That still leaves a couple problems, they still can't speak, and have lost racial abilities equal to a PC class. You may want to just create a template, giving them abilities like being able to speak, and possibly a few other things like a +2 bonus on perception and a 1/day spell like ability, possibly speak with animals. You could maybe add 1 or 2 more things, but don't go overboard. Just remember that as a fox they are also getting low-light vision, scent and a 40 ft. movement speed.
As for how they interact with the world, that's up to you. There are lots of druids that walk around as a tiger all day, never opening doors or using potions or the like. If the player wants to be a spellcasting class you can easily allow them to take the natural spell feat to allow casting without spell components. As for things like picking locks, using weapons, or writing and such, I would likely go with what a hyper intelligent fox could do, which is to say not too much, but not too little. They likely wouldn't be able to pick locks and definitely couldn't hold a knife effectively, lacking the fine motor control for it, but could probably write an incredibly poorly written letter if necessary by picking the quill up in it's mouth and writing that way.
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but can an animal actually gain class levels?
Nope, not normally. They would have to be some kind of awakened animal in order to gain class levels. If he has the mental scores of a normal person then he's basically an awakened animal anyway. What lets you gain class levels is being smart enough to learn advanced skills and tactics (no, I do not want to start the debate about what advanced skills and tactics that animals have been observed to do in real life). Being sentient is basically that requirement which this character fulfills. He can take levels in whatever he wants but under the stipulation that certain things are just simply out of the capabilities of his animal body such as picking a lock or performing some combat maneuvers that state you have to be within certain size categories of the enemy.
Just in general, as a new GM, you really should try to keep things simple for yourself. I know you want to be the "cool GM" that lets your players do all kinds of wacky things but for your own personal sanity you probably want to keep them to pre-made races such as what is listed here under Core and "Other Paizo Races" while taking out any that you feel simply don't fit your campaign setting.
If you really want to make it work though I wouldn't personally go by what GypsyMischief suggests. While the physical stats of a fox aren't too bad as a baseline before tweaking, if those same rules stayed when he got the body of a bear (to use your example) then he would suddenly be much stronger stat-wise than anyone else in the party. I like his idea though of whatever ability score bonuses he gets (such as at level 4) can't be changed and carries over between forms. While you can certainly do an animal PC and make it work, letting him eventually change bodies permanently is just opening a massive can of worms in terms of how to keep him balanced. What's balanced in one form can be completely and utterly broken in another. Being a fox is already incredibly strong (much harder to hit him, incredible bonus to stealth, etc) with some absolutely monstrous builds floating around the forums revolving around being Tiny sized.
I would just simply say that if he wants to play an animal PC either make him just stay that single form until he gets a normal body (one of the races I linked to above) or just tell him it's going to be too difficult to make it work correctly and tell him to play a normal character.
I'd just have him look for someone to reincarnate him; in the meantime, I'd run his fox form the same way. An awakened fox can speak, so speech shouldn't be a problem.
You could treat him as under the effect of baleful polymorph. Maybe he was experimented on by a vivisectionist (alchemist) and thought he switched bodies, but actually got his changed.that would be an interesting boss fight. You'd treat him like he was under beast shape III and otherwise do a normal character. You could house rule for things like spellcasting.
Just wondering, what class(es) will your player be aiming for? As fun as My Self's scenario looks, it'd be good to have some idea where things are going. (And a monk or brawler might actually have problems, regarding flurry with natural weapons. And reach is an issue if you're tiny ... )
This is going to be a rather niche thing overall, though. And again, 'upgrading' to a bear is something druids have to wait quite a few levels for. Keep that in mind.
okay, first of all, thank you all for your advice! you guys are great! :D
second, from all of your suggestions i have drawn up this idea of how to build his character:
i will first ask him to make a non class character without applying skill points or feats yet. it will simply be base attributes same as any other player.
then, i would apply the form changes by changing all his non mental attributes to those of a fox and giving him all the perks and disadvantages involved.
after this, i would tell him to make a class. the restrictions would be nothing that requires you to be lawful as his animal instinct prevents him from that, nothing with inherent magical capabilities such as sorcerer because i doubt it has a magical bloodline.
the idea is that after he was turned in to a fox he began adventuring for a while before meeting the group, gaining a class on the way.
any feats and skill points he gets in one from will be transferred to another. any racial bonuses to skills or feats that he had before, would be changed to those of the new animal.
i will make it so that he will not be able to take on new forms if a druid of the appropriate level could not shapeshifft in to them (i made this rule up. i like this rule ^-^).
and i think thats it. something i'd like to clarify is that he will be able to speak.
this is my look at it, tell me if i am missing something. thanks! :D
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You really don't want a player to make a custom class for themselves. Trust me on this one. Even people who do that thing for a living and knows the game systems in and out commonly make huge mistakes in creating a class that get revised 20 times over through the general design process and playtesting. I would have him choose a class he wants to play and then maybe fiddle with one or two things with him until you're both satisfied with the result. Don't simply let him trade something out for something else though unless being in animal form really and truly breaks the class feature. Just really keep him away from classes that focus on two-weapon fighting like a Magus.
I assume he's completely on board with and knows about the animal thing so let him decide on a class that he feels he would be (mostly) playable and go from there. As for nothing that would cause inherent magical capabilities, keep in mind that a Kitsune, aka a fox person that can change in to the shape of a fox, is one of the most inherently magical races in the game. In my opinion Sorcerer is much better than Wizard in this case. Just keep him away from bloodlines that don't make sense. Dragon is pretty much out, but it wouldn't surprise me if some demonic (aka Aberrant) powers got mixed in with all the experimentation. It would make sense for the overall character mechanics since it's given free Eschew Materials, you don't have to deal with a spellbook, and other assorted things that just seem to mesh really well with being in animal form. You could easily handwave/explain the bloodline thing saying that he got his magical abilities infused within his soul or something instead of the body itself. Honestly, if you're letting a character play as a fox (and later other animals) and explaining it with story stuff, you can make most any bloodline work that doesn't involve an actual specific animal (such as dragon) or elemental (Deep Earth, Marid). Anything demonic/evil can be explained as a stain on your soul due to the dark magics used in the experiment, straight magical bloodlines can be explained by the fact that the experimentation was magical, and anything holy can be explained by divine forces blessing you at some point in life either before or after the switch. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Sorcerer is actually a good fit for him if he wanted to go that route.
The one last thing I would caution against is him dumping his physical stats in order to pump his mental scores from anticipating his physical stats will be jostled around a lot. This is one of the problems that the Summoner (Synthesist Archetype) has that people really don't like. Make sure his "before transformation" character stat-build is a good fit for whatever class he's going to be taking after transforming. The other idea is to make him write a backstory on his character for what he did before he was transformed (were you a Warpriest before? Well then stat your character as if you were making a Warpriest). This can actually cause some really good character development since the player can have the internal and external struggle of continuing on with their life with these limitations that his new body gives him in life. After all, if you were a basic fighter beforehand, you're going to be very bitter and angry that you can't use your favorite longsword anymore, being forced to use "This damn toothpick" that you carry in your mouth. Or heck, if you used to be a rogue, you may find yourself really enjoying your new form after a time considering the benefits it can give you and maybe he'll decide to stay in his form as long as he can continue living with others that he trusts.
Other than that, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it.
I don't intend to let him have a custom class. I don't think so anyway.
I thought about what you said, and i think i'm gonna interview him. :p
i'll roleplay the alchemist that messed him up and ask him questions about who he is and what he does and build his character like that. i'll be like "there are six different numbers here. please choose one to represent each of these six attributes." or something like that. should be fun.
though i think i'd like him to not get a magical class at all. i think it will take some of the fun away from this character. but thats also up to him.
i think i got it now. any other ideas are appreciated. thank you all for helping. :)
As a fox, he'll have fox physical ability scores, but there will be a big problem if he's just a fox. Foxes don't have hands, so he won't be able to hold any weapons, and he can't pick locks or anything like that. If you want my opinion, to make him less absolutely underpowered, you could give him the body of an anthropomorphic fox (as the spell Anthropomorphic Animal). If he switched bodies through some kind of experiment, then there's no reason to believe that the experimenter didn't experiment on animals, so this player could be stuck in the body of an anthropomorphic fox. Their goal would still be to get to new bodies, but it would allow them to not be so weak compared to everyone else. And, as an added bonus, it fits perfectly with a vivisectionist experimenter, because they get access to Anthropomorphic Animal. Baleful Polymorph could still work, but it would be very debilitating.
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Just wondering, what class(es) will your player be aiming for? As fun as My Self's scenario looks, it'd be good to have some idea where things are going. (And a monk or brawler might actually have problems, regarding flurry with natural weapons. And reach is an issue if you're tiny ... )
This is going to be a rather niche thing overall, though. And again, 'upgrading' to a bear is something druids have to wait quite a few levels for. Keep that in mind.
I don't understand. A monk or brawler wouldn't have any issues. Or are you implying that animals can't have Unarmed Strikes? If you are you're going to have to back that up because there's nowhere in the rules that I've seen that anywhere near implies that..
My suggestion would be the same as MageHunter's. Have him use the polymorph rules. If you let him keep his own mental ability scores but have him use the physical ability scores of his animal body, it'll be too easy to abuse (look at synthesist summoner). Just have him keep his own ability scores modified as if he had been polymorphed--that'll keep him inline ability-wise with the rest of the team.
This character would be a standard PC under the effects of greater mind swap except used between a fox and himself. He'd have the fox's physical ability scores, but keeps his mental ability scores, class levels, and everything else.
I'd personally give him a standard array of ability scores to allocate to his mental scores and let him use class abilities as normal. I'd consider house ruling that he can cast spells and talk as a fox, but can't wield weapons.
Personally I like the idea of a fox alchemist who has a hireling to brew his potions for him, interpreting what the fox needs and when.
I just remembered that in occult adventures the Promethean alchemist gets a homonculous companion that can prepare extracts for you.
Instead of resetting his physical scores, since that sucks, apply Beast Shape II to him.
So he builds a human character, and then apply +4 size bonus to Dexterity, a -2 penalty to Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus. I recommend that you charge him a feat for this, as it is basically a stat buff. He could even build a strength based character.
When he upgrades, he would either pay in feats or gold.