If it makes you feel any better, the last character i played ended being no greater than 2 point buy (I rolled a 4 for his Con, not sure how many points you "should" deduct from point buy once it gets that low) and that was with 4d6 drop the lowest. His highest stat pre racial bonus was a 13.Using Wonderstell's scale on page one.
STR: 6 I am a noodle-being.
DEX: 10 Pretty average.
CON: 9 I don't get sick often, but my endurance is crap.
INT: 12 Pretty intelligent. I'm garbage at math and logic puzzles though.
WIS: 12 One of my few redeeming traits.
CHA: 8 I look several years younger than I am, really skinny, pale, and I can't even maintain a proper conversation with my best friend (who I've known since 3rd grade) in a one-on-one situation. Tends to make social situations awkward.I seem to be a -3 point buy character.
That is why my group doesn't roll for our characters anymore! That's probably the unluckiest streak of rolls I've ever seen though.
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In regards to Intelligence, I believe it's based on the IQ scale (which isn't necessarily perfectly accurate in and of itself) but drops the last zero of the score, so IQ 100 = Int 10, IQ 180 = Int 18, etc.An IQ of 180 is a literal 1 in a million (well one in 3 million if using 16 standard deviations and 1 in 20 million if using 15 standard deviations instead), not a 1 in 216, so an 18 in Int is much better represented by an IQ of 140 (still very smart and easily able to do basically any job ever made except perhaps things that heavily involve quantum physics). Likewise, an Int of 3 is ~ an IQ of 60, and an Int of 7 (lowest point buy human) is 90 which is a normal ass everyday blue collar worker, not the blabbering idiot that everyone seems to play them as.
This assumes nobody ever puts the racial +2 in Int, which I'd assume many do (especially those who already have high rolled Int). Which throws the calculations off a bit, especially at the higher end. As does people very reasonably getting up to +2 from levels and +2 from age. That puts the Human max at 22 for younger people and 25 for the venerable.
Which needs to be taken into account. Call it a 1/4 chance of a +2 for any roll of 14+, and maybe another 1/10 chance of another +2 (from a combination of leveling and age), and the numbers start being more accurate.
But back to the basic point, yeah, Int 14 = IQ 140 is not very accurate at all.
For simplicity, I often figure that every +1 modifier is a standard deviation (15 points of IQ or so), with Int 10 being the baseline of 100 IQ, which makes an 18 a 160 IQ, a 20 a 175, a 22 a 190, and a 24 a 205. That has some accuracy disadvantages, but it is simple...
My group wanted to do a game based around this idea. Only in our case, you wouldn't assign stats for yourself but instead everyone at the table would.
The problem was, when looking at the list their are a few things that people could qualify later down the list but not qualify for some of the prior things. For example: In Strength it says at 14-15 "Visibly toned" but then later down the list for 18-19 "Can break wood with bare hands".
If I had to stat myself I'd say I would have...
Str:15
Dex:15
Con:14
Int:16/17
Wis:16
Cha:14
I think the only thing the people in my group were debating about was my INT score. Even though I'm good with both math and science, you would never get that vibe off of me during a game/know I'm a Chem major.
In regards to Intelligence, I believe it's based on the IQ scale (which isn't necessarily perfectly accurate in and of itself) but drops the last zero of the score, so IQ 100 = Int 10, IQ 180 = Int 18, etc.An IQ of 180 is a literal 1 in a million (well one in 3 million if using 16 standard deviations and 1 in 20 million if using 15 standard deviations instead), not a 1 in 216, so an 18 in Int is much better represented by an IQ of 140 (still very smart and easily able to do basically any job ever made except perhaps things that heavily involve quantum physics). Likewise, an Int of 3 is ~ an IQ of 60, and an Int of 7 (lowest point buy human) is 90 which is a normal ass everyday blue collar worker, not the blabbering idiot that everyone seems to play them as.This assumes nobody ever puts the racial +2 in Int, which I'd assume many do (especially those who already have high rolled Int). Which throws the calculations off a bit, especially at the higher end. As does people very reasonably getting up to +2 from levels and +2 from age. That puts the Human max at 22 for younger people and 25 for the venerable.
Which needs to be taken into account. Call it a 1/4 chance of a +2 for any roll of 14+, and maybe another 1/10 chance of another +2 (from a combination of leveling and age), and the numbers start being more accurate.
But back to the basic point, yeah, Int 14 = IQ 140 is not very accurate at all.
For simplicity, I often figure that every +1 modifier is a standard deviation (15 points of IQ or so), with Int 10 being the baseline of 100 IQ, which...
I like that system a lot, although it hits a little low for low Int, putting a 3 somewhere around 48 and a 7 somewhere around 78. Having worked with special needs a fair bit in the past, I feel those are both about 7 points lower than I'd be comfortable with. After all, IQs under 70 only make up about 5% of the population. I'm fine with there being far more geniuses than there should be, but you just can't have a functional society if too much of the population doesn't have the cognitive reasoning necessary to support their lifestyle. It breaks verisimilitude too much for me, (Golarion communities are too complex for a 10% special needs population to thrive in) so I'd probably change it to 100 - 12 per -1 mod, although that's a whole lot less intuitive.
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After a little thought and reading some of the responses, I think my stats are;
Str:18 I can break wood bare handed and routinely lift 100+ pound objects all day.
Dex:12 I do need to dodge falling or flying objects sometimes at work
Con:14 I haul garbage, there is no smell that sickens me, 10 hour days are common and I rarely get sick.
Int: 10 pretty average, but I get a +2 to useless knowledge checks.
Wis: 12 little more street smart than book smart
Cha: 8 I freely admit I am a bit of an ass most of the time.
Alignment, somewhere between NG and N. I don't like picking sides as most of the time no one is on mine.
At 6' 4" 270 pounds and being a garbage man, I really don't fit the gamer stereotype at all. As short tempered as I am, I should be an orc lol
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I like that system a lot, although it hits a little low for low Int, putting a 3 somewhere around 48 and a 7 somewhere around 78. Having worked with special needs a fair bit in the past, I feel those are both about 7 points lower than I'd be comfortable with. After all, IQs under 70 only make up about 5% of the population. I'm fine with there being far more geniuses than there should be, but you just can't have a functional society if too much of the population doesn't have the cognitive reasoning necessary to support their lifestyle. It breaks verisimilitude too much for me, (Golarion communities are too complex for a 10% special needs population to thrive in) so I'd probably change it to 100 - 12 per -1 mod, although that's a whole lot less intuitive.
If it's specifically 'under 70' that you're talking about, the probabilities actually work out that way precisely, since only Int 5 or less is under 70 (Int 6 is an IQ of 70 precisely).
That said, I'd generally assume that a fair percentage of people with a truly low rolled Int would put their racial +2 into it to be functional. If half of people with rolled 6 or below do that, the probabilities just about work out even including 6 in the 'under 70' bracket (which is probably fair enough).
Combined with the assumption that 1 in 4 people or so with an Int 14+ use their racial +2 in Int, that means it's about 1 in 10 people with Int 7-12 will, but that seems workable to me. On a meta-level, the Human bonus is versatility, they're either better at something they were already impressive at than they should be, or less bad than they should be in an area of weakness.
That does leave, say, Gnomes or Dwarves with a fair number more special needs individuals than humans have, but they aren't human and operate somewhat differently. And even there, 6 is right at the border of IQ 70 and thus quite possibly functional, especially in a simpler society than ours.
My group wanted to do a game based around this idea. Only in our case, you wouldn't assign stats for yourself but instead everyone at the table would.
The problem was, when looking at the list their are a few things that people could qualify later down the list but not qualify for some of the prior things. For example: In Strength it says at 14-15 "Visibly toned" but then later down the list for 18-19 "Can break wood with bare hands".
If I had to stat myself I'd say I would have...
Str:15
Dex:15
Con:14
Int:16/17
Wis:16
Cha:14I think the only thing the people in my group were debating about was my INT score. Even though I'm good with both math and science, you would never get that vibe off of me during a game/know I'm a Chem major.
I think that would probably end my gaming group. Lol
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I've seen people stat themselves in a wide variety of games. Usually not to play, but just for fun. And usually not Pathfinder, but games more suited to playing normal people in the modern day.
The usual modus operandi is to have the person mostly do it themselves but subject to editorial oversight from the rest of the group (or everyone who's there, anyway). That tends to result in pretty good assessments of people in my experience.
In games that measure psychological traits (Unknown Armies leaps to mind), this can actually be enormously revealing of who people are. Or at least who they think they are.\
Of course, I'm a Psych student and have occasionally gotten my friends to do more or less proper psychological assessments for fun. So my motivations for that sort of thing may differ from others...
STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 8
INT: 16
WIS: 13
CHA: 12
I'm physically weak although not very much less so than most people - I can still do physical labor to an acceptable level for the average person. Depending on the projectile and my time spent practicing I can reliably hit my target.
As for the mental scores, I have an above-average ability for comprehension and retention of information. I can wrap my head around some pretty tough logical puzzles and problems, and I have a knack for tests in particular (in fact my studying strategy for the SAT and SAT wasn't to study the material, it was to study the test itself - it worked). While I'm pretty good at reading a situation and making logical choices, I most certainly didn't put any points into Perception because I overlook so many obvious things. Finally, although I dislike being in the spotlight or going to huge gatherings I can easily hold a conversation and make people laugh.
So, all things aside, I think I'm pretty average at around a 10-point buy. Sounds right.
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Wow, a lot of people here think very Highly about themselfs, I am indeed impressed. I would be more realistic to make it interesting.
Do you really think that, considering 10 as the average of human being, 12~13 CON makes you never sick?.
Do you guys understand what a 19~20 INT would be?.
Well, here goes nothing:
STR: 10. Average strenght of a Human being.
DEX: 11. Slightly better than average because i made competitive swiming when i was younger.
CON: 12. Similar to the above plus I have gained some weight.
INT: 13. Master degree in Electronic Engineering.
WIS: 12. I reflect a lot, it is in my nature.
CAR: 12. I try to do stuf diplomaticly, and 51% of the time it works.
Well, I blame your super higher Stats to the "No child left behind" thing.
Have some fun.
Regards!!
Am I supposed to stat myself or the flesh that is my prison? These are very different things.
Cool, that is a :
INT: 13
WIS: 14
CAR: 12In my book.
What.
STR 12, strong enough to be the 'slightly above average guy who helps you move'
DEX 11 long-time gamer, former tree climber. Never trip or fall randomly unless super drunk.
CON 14 basically don't sleep, can drink like an immortal and only get 'sick' to take days off work to play video games.
INT 14 yup, it might be higher, but I don't care. I do work in the I.T. field, and have attended multiple post-secondary educational facilities (even graduated one of them!)
WIS 10 nothing special here...
CHA 14 I'm a sleazy, convincing, adorable guy. :D Ask anyone!
Like most others on here, I would possibly argue my INT is higher, but I feel like that just gets people going... like, confrontational... *shrugs*
If I picked a class for myself, I would WANT to be a Cleric... but would likely wind up a Bard...
Do you really think that, considering 10 as the average of human being, 12~13 CON makes you never sick?.
Do you guys understand what a 19~20 INT would be?.
It's all a matter of scales. Mean, median, and mode.
I tend to think of 10 as like the mode of Pathfinder. Whereas 12-14 the values ascribed to them are very much around the mean of the human race in general. Very few people drop as low as 7, and even then there's those racial bonus stats flying around. With the abilities ascribed to 18+ stat points in some categories those are very achievable goals.
Lots of people have 20, or maybe even more, Int without being anything special. That's just a piece of how life works.
Do you really think that, considering 10 as the average of human being, 12~13 CON makes you never sick?.
Do you guys understand what a 19~20 INT would be?.It's all a matter of scales. Mean, median, and mode.
I tend to think of 10 as like the mode of Pathfinder. Whereas 12-14 the values ascribed to them are very much around the mean of the human race in general. Very few people drop as low as 7, and even then there's those racial bonus stats flying around. With the abilities ascribed to 18+ stat points in some categories those are very achievable goals.
Lots of people have 20, or maybe even more, Int without being anything special. That's just a piece of how life works.
Well, 20 int by the pathfinder standard would be "Genius" and "probably the smartest person many people know". So saying that lots of people have 20 int without being anything special may be stretching it.
Well, 20 int by the pathfinder standard would be "Genius" and "probably the smartest person many people know". So saying that lots of people have 20 int without being anything special may be stretching it.Do you really think that, considering 10 as the average of human being, 12~13 CON makes you never sick?.
Do you guys understand what a 19~20 INT would be?.It's all a matter of scales. Mean, median, and mode.
I tend to think of 10 as like the mode of Pathfinder. Whereas 12-14 the values ascribed to them are very much around the mean of the human race in general. Very few people drop as low as 7, and even then there's those racial bonus stats flying around. With the abilities ascribed to 18+ stat points in some categories those are very achievable goals.
Lots of people have 20, or maybe even more, Int without being anything special. That's just a piece of how life works.
Except there are a LOT of people in the world. Lots of people are geniuses without being recognized for it. Heck, even consider how many of the geniuses we recognize now as the greats mind of X were just some bloke. Or how many of the great female inventors have gone without recognition throughout the ages.
When you think realistically, the actual greatest mind of all time is not necessarily who we decide is such, but it could've been some poor teen that died too soon or someone in a third world country without the resources or training to use their intellect.
I just found this and thought it was super interesting, although the descriptions for the lower ends are probably a little more positive than I'd expect. These are all based on the descriptions provided by Wonderstell, but I feel like realistically I'd be lower numerically than they indicate.
Str: 12(I used to be probably at a 15-16 for my size, but I'm still pretty strong)
Dex: 17 or 18(TKD fighter and just naturally fast, I'm also a semi-pro gamer, so decent reflexes)
Constitution: 12(you don't do mma and tkd for the entirety of your life without being able to take a hit)
Wisdom: 9 or 10(I definitely think that I'm lower than this, but based on his description I'm around a 10, I'm just not good at reading people)
Charisma: 9 or 10(I can switch between being normal and being a super strong public speaker and debater when I need to be, but most of the time I'd say I'm around a 9 or 10)
Int is tough, because it's harder to measure. Based on his descriptions, I'm probably around a 19-20(maybe overestimating myself, but I entered college at 13 and have more than proved myself since at Berkeley, so I feel like that's relatively accurate given how young I still am) but that's a hard one to put on a numerical scale imo.
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Well, 20 int by the pathfinder standard would be "Genius" and "probably the smartest person many people know". So saying that lots of people have 20 int without being anything special may be stretching it.Do you really think that, considering 10 as the average of human being, 12~13 CON makes you never sick?.
Do you guys understand what a 19~20 INT would be?.It's all a matter of scales. Mean, median, and mode.
I tend to think of 10 as like the mode of Pathfinder. Whereas 12-14 the values ascribed to them are very much around the mean of the human race in general. Very few people drop as low as 7, and even then there's those racial bonus stats flying around. With the abilities ascribed to 18+ stat points in some categories those are very achievable goals.
Lots of people have 20, or maybe even more, Int without being anything special. That's just a piece of how life works.
Except there are a LOT of people in the world. Lots of people are geniuses without being recognized for it. Heck, even consider how many of the geniuses we recognize now as the greats mind of X were just some bloke. Or how many of the great female inventors have gone without recognition throughout the ages.
When you think realistically, the actual greatest mind of all time is not necessarily who we decide is such, but it could've been some poor teen that died too soon or someone in a third world country without the resources or training to use their intellect.
Interesting, I would like to make the following analogy.
So, in pathfinder with a 19 INT you can cast spell of the 9th level.These spells are the highest level of spells, yes more INT more bonus to spells and the saving throw is higher, however in order to "naturally" cast them, you need at least 19 INT.
Basically, if you have 19 INT as a wizard, you know you will be able to cast these "Crafting worlds" spells, of course, only if you ever meet the level (experience) and have the resources to do so.
Now, with what i am left is the capacity to naturally cast these spells. If we compare the type of Intelligence between these worlds, the more intelligence, the more things you can understand. So, what is our "9th level spells", do you think that Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves are?. I would say that, no, they are not, perhaps they are one of the most difficult topics in human science, but there are a lot of people who study them, is it natural for them to understand them?, I would say that no, at all, they dedicate a vast amount of time in order to have a clear idea of these topics. And many understand them, but even though i like these topic so much, they are are not our "Crafting worlds" type of thing.
Imho I would give these topics a 6th or 7th spell level, yes this is subjective, however Im saving 8th and 9th spell levels as things humanity has not yet faced, such as terraforming, black holes experimenting, sun energy levels and variations, and so on.
So what everyone is here saying, is that here, in the paizo forums everyone can "naturally" understand Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves and so on. So it is just a thing of picking up a book, some PhD thesis, and having some time off, and you can easily write essays about them?. Im not saying that you guys dont, i just dont believe it.
If you believe so, then you have more faith in humanity than i do hahaha :).
Anyway, great mental exercise,
Best regards!.-
So, in pathfinder with a 19 INT you can cast spell of the 9th level.
These spells are the highest level of spells, yes more INT more bonus to spells and the saving throw is higher, however in order to "naturally" cast them, you need at least 19 INT.
I would actually propose that your premise is false. To achieve understanding of any form requires exposure. In d20 games conceptually your character does a lot of research and training during adventures. They don't "naturally" know spells so much as learn more about discovered magic. In fact there are rules for creating spells that if you wished to play in a world without discovered magic I would suggest using for spells we view as typical.
In the real world we learn by exposure as well. A high intelligence is only needed to grasp concepts, not invent them. We often assume people today are smarter than the past. But, ancients did many amazing feats and plenty of people are unremarkable. We just have the advantage of a far more advanced record.
Also, none of us have Wizard levels IRL. :p That's kinda needed for spells.
Except there are a LOT of people in the world. Lots of people are geniuses without being recognized for it. Heck, even consider how many of the geniuses we recognize now as the greats mind of X were just some bloke. Or how many of the great female inventors have gone without recognition throughout the ages.When you think realistically, the actual greatest mind of all time is not necessarily who we decide is such, but it could've been some poor teen that died too soon or someone in a third world country without the resources or training to use their intellect.
Interesting, I would like to make the following analogy.
So, in pathfinder with a 19 INT you can cast spell of the 9th level.
These spells are the highest level of spells, yes more INT more bonus to spells and the saving throw is higher, however in order to "naturally" cast them, you need at least 19 INT.
Basically, if you have 19 INT as a wizard, you know you will be able to cast these "Crafting worlds" spells, of course, only if you ever meet the level (experience) and have the resources to do so.
It's not clear that 9th level spells really are the highest level of spells, but only the highest level of spells that are defined in the rules. The Epic Level Handbook, for example, provides rules for metamagicked spells of higher level, or even spells that are designed to be epic level.
But, sure, that's certainly an achievable but aspirational goal for most wizards.
Now, with what i am left is the capacity to naturally cast these spells. If we compare the type of Intelligence between these worlds, the more intelligence, the more things you can understand. So, what is our "9th level spells", do you think that Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves are?.
Goodness, no. Those can be learned by any physics major.
I would say that, no, they are not, perhaps they are one of the most difficult topics in human science,
Not even that. Relativity theory is a junior-level course at UC-Berkeley. Or at U. Washington. At U. Maryland, it's a sophomore-level course.
I would say that no, at all, they dedicate a vast amount of time in order to have a clear idea of these topics.
Not really. It takes less time and effort to master the subjects you mentioned than it does to read Chinese.
So what everyone is here saying, is that here, in the paizo forums everyone can "naturally" understand Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves and so on.
Yeah, basically. Assuming you pay attention in class.
So it is just a thing of picking up a book, some PhD thesis, and having some time off, and you can easily write essays about them?
Attending the lectures and doing the homework is also helpful.
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So, in pathfinder with a 19 INT you can cast spell of the 9th level.
These spells are the highest level of spells, yes more INT more bonus to spells and the saving throw is higher, however in order to "naturally" cast them, you need at least 19 INT.I would actually propose that your premise is false. To achieve understanding of any form requires exposure. In d20 games conceptually your character does a lot of research and training during adventures. They don't "naturally" know spells so much as learn more about discovered magic. In fact there are rules for creating spells that if you wished to play in a world without discovered magic I would suggest using for spells we view as typical.
In the real world we learn by exposure as well. A high intelligence is only needed to grasp concepts, not invent them. We often assume people today are smarter than the past. But, ancients did many amazing feats and plenty of people are unremarkable. We just have the advantage of a far more advanced record.
Also, none of us have Wizard levels IRL. :p That's kinda needed for spells.
What i mean with "naturally" know spells is that, with that INT score, they are able to cast the spells of that level, while without it, it is impossible without something enhancing it. So in the example, everyone should be able to master these topics, because they have a lot of intelligence.
I would say you need high Intelligence to invent concepts, you need INT to solve new problems, new problems can be considered potential "concepts".
And of course, this is a mental exercise, sadly no one has Wizard levels IRL, i think ...
Now, with what i am left is the capacity to naturally cast these spells. If we compare the type of Intelligence between these worlds, the more intelligence, the more things you can understand. So, what is our "9th level spells", do you think that Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves are?.Goodness, no. Those can be learned by any physics major.
Yeah, I know, replying to my own post. But this gets back to what I was saying earlier about IQ and intelligence.
Yes, physicists are generally very intelligent. They usually top out the league tables of majors-sorted-by-IQ. But the average IQ of a typical physics major is "only" around 13-135, well below the standard cutoff of 140 that most people use to represent "genius."
And anyone with a physics degree is supposed to have a basic understanding of those topics. The really high-level strange stuff -- the "9th level spells," if you will -- typically involve years of training beyond the basic B.S., and are as much a function of how much time you have to acquire the knowledge as raw intelligence.
Which is to say, any relatively competent physics Ph.D. is expected to be able to contribute new knowledge to the canon. That's a basic degree requirement. If you work long enough, you'll learn enough to be able to understand what everyone else has done, at which point you can start doing new stuff.
Which seems also to be true for wizards. If you work long enough (gain enough levels), you will be able to cast any spell in the book.
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Now, with what i am left is the capacity to naturally cast these spells. If we compare the type of Intelligence between these worlds, the more intelligence, the more things you can understand. So, what is our "9th level spells", do you think that Relativity, spring theory, wave theory, gravitatory waves are?.Goodness, no. Those can be learned by any physics major.
Yeah, I know, replying to my own post. But this gets back to what I was saying earlier about IQ and intelligence.
Yes, physicists are generally very intelligent. They usually top out the league tables of majors-sorted-by-IQ. But the average IQ of a typical physics major is "only" around 13-135, well below the standard cutoff of 140 that most people use to represent "genius."
And anyone with a physics degree is supposed to have a basic understanding of those topics. The really high-level strange stuff -- the "9th level spells," if you will -- typically involve years of training beyond the basic B.S., and are as much a function of how much time you have to acquire the knowledge as raw intelligence.
Which is to say, any relatively competent physics Ph.D. is expected to be able to contribute new knowledge to the canon. That's a basic degree requirement. If you work long enough, you'll learn enough to be able to understand what everyone else has done, at which point you can start doing new stuff.
Which seems also to be true for wizards. If you work long enough (gain enough levels), you will be able to cast any spell in the book.
I agree with you, though I would say going to a few classes of an interesting topic is different from mastering it.
You can improve your intelligence, i agree with that. The main issue i propose here, is that, aparently, everyone has improved their intelligence to the point of achieving what i have said before.
Also, there are different kind of intelligences, so yeah, you could have different intelligences, it is possible.
Based on the aformentioned scale, this is me:
STR 11
DEX 12
CON 11
INT 18
WIS 16
CHR 11
Oh wait, that was me at 18.. I'm 43 now.. so there are age modifiers.
STR 10
DEX 11 (i'd drop it down to 10 or 9 due to being overweight)
CON 10
INT 19
WIS 17
CHR 12
I'm also a 25 point build! (using the +2 bonus in my INT for being human) :)
You can improve your intelligence,
I didn't say anything about improving intelligence. I merely pointed out that you don't need once in a generation intelligence to do things that people outside the field regard with awe (like understanding special and general relativity).
You don't need to be a genius to be a physics major, and majoring in physics doesn't make you one. You don't need to be superhuman to cast 9th level spells, although you do need to be pretty damn bright. But most of what you need to be a physics major or a ninth-level spellcaster is simply enough experience with the material.
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You can improve your intelligence,I didn't say anything about improving intelligence. I merely pointed out that you don't need once in a generation intelligence to do things that people outside the field regard with awe (like understanding special and general relativity).
You don't need to be a genius to be a physics major, and majoring in physics doesn't make you one. You don't need to be superhuman to cast 9th level spells, although you do need to be pretty damn bright. But most of what you need to be a physics major or a ninth-level spellcaster is simply enough experience with the material.
Which, aparently, everyone can easily achieve. That is my point.
Also, is there any in-game Character in Golarion able to cast 9th level spell?.
You can improve your intelligence,I didn't say anything about improving intelligence. I merely pointed out that you don't need once in a generation intelligence to do things that people outside the field regard with awe (like understanding special and general relativity).
You don't need to be a genius to be a physics major, and majoring in physics doesn't make you one. You don't need to be superhuman to cast 9th level spells, although you do need to be pretty damn bright. But most of what you need to be a physics major or a ninth-level spellcaster is simply enough experience with the material.
Which, aparently, everyone can easily achieve. That is my point.
Also, is there any in-game Character in Golarion able to cast 9th level spell?.
Razmir says hi.
Also, in regard to the "everyone statting themselves up as high int is ridiculous" sentiment that's getting thrown around you have to remember that this hobby naturally gravitates towards people that are comfortable with number crunching, tactics and philosophical discussion on world building. The game caters to a high int crowd, so it should come as no surprise that most of the people are claiming to be high int. I'd actually be more dubious of the fact if more people were statting themselves as average or low int (although I do think there are probably a couple too many 18s floating around, but 14-16 should be pretty common as people continue to chime in). Likewise, based on the game stat for strength, 3 months of serious training is enough to bump you from a 7 to a 12. Since people generally have more spare time on earth than they do in Golarion, people are able to maintain great shape even if they're a desk jockey if they're willing to stick to a routine, so the number of 15+ strength people showing up isn't really surprising me either despite gaming not exactly being the most mobile of hobbies. The number of high dex people has been kind of surprising though.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Strength: 12
- In the national guard, do fine on pushups. Best I've done is 63 in two minutes. I can handle ruck marches. With that said, I'm nowhere near being swoll and am not a big person.
Dexterity: 10
- Very average when it comes to shooting. Not a natural, but not hopeless either. Can catch and throw, but not too well. Not clumsy, but not agile either. So...average?
Constitution: 12
- Get sick about as often as everyone else. Can't go for long distances without getting tired (hell, I seriously hate doing the Army's 2 mile run!). However, I have pushed through some serious pain before (ex: 10 mile march on an injured ankle, with the carried weight). So I'd say that's worth +1hp.
Intelligence: 14
- For my civilian job, I am a lawyer, specifically getting benefits for veterans. I've met many people who are much smarter than me, and I do need to study hard to remember details (do not ask me about specific cases or laws, because all of that was forgotten after taking the test that it was studied for). That said, I am a logical person and am good at what I do...if I do say so myself.
Wisdom: 12
- I'm capable of planning and makes reasoned decisions most of the time...I'd also like to think that I can at least sense when a person is upset. So 12 it is.
Charisma: 12
- I enjoy public speaking and do need to interact with clients without scaring them away. But "mildly interesting, usually knows what to say" just about fits me.
As a human with the point buy system...I come in under the 'low fantasy' subsection, as the +2 racial bonus for human would go in under intelligence for a 10pt buy. I'd guess that this means that I would need to have a spellcasting class.
For my class, I'd probably say something like this:
Fighter (1)
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms)
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Field Artillery...computers)
Wizard (1)
- lvl 0 (detect magic, read magic, message)
- lvl 1 (cultural adaptation...I am married to a foreigner and thus have had to do this)
Skills
- Profession Law (2)
* It's my trained profession
- Knowledge History (1)
* My undergrand
- Knowledge Local (1)
* Got to put that point somewhere and I suppose it works
- Spellcraft (1)
* Needed for all wizards
- Swim (1)
* Yes I know how to swim
- Survival (1)
* I really enjoyed learning land navigation
And thus makes the 10pt buy lvl 2 Grumbaki! Probably not coming to an adventuring party near you...
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It should be easy to justify any 25 point build if you come from a first world country (second world, probably, too). Good food, doctors and modern education really skew the curve.
You can argue that this is what gave the Azlanti the +2 across all stats.
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It should be easy to justify any 25 point build if you come from a first world country (second world, probably, too). Good food, doctors and modern education really skew the curve.
That depends, of course, on whether the averages are normalized or not.
Yes, people are on average stronger, healthier, and better educated today than they were 250 years ago. That might mean that the average has shifted from a 10 to a 12, or it might be that 12 is the new 10.
Plus consider how many desk jockies/nerds,cubical dwellers ride their bikes or walk to work. Hell my mom at 62 is competing in warrior dashes, she doesn't do real awesome, but she doesn't come in last. She works in a library and sits at a desk most of the day, but tries to do Zumba. She admits to not being good at it.
And education is a pretty big difference between the fantasy world and now. I took welding in high school, a skill not found in Golarion. For that matter I would imagine high school wood shop would make you a pretty solid carpenter in the game world.
Str: 16; I'm not toned at all, but for most of my life I've done manual labor jobs where I carried objects weighing 50-100lbs from one place to another.
Dex: 15; I'm not usually quick, nimble, nor do I have a great sense of balance, but I do pretty well at batting cages, and I've had to dodge or pull someone else to safety when something fell suddenly.
Con: 14; Long hours, hard work, and able to survive more times being hit by cars (while walking or cycling), without any more damage than some scratches and cuts, than I have fingers and toes.
Int: 12; I'm not great at complex puzzles or math beyond algebra, but I do enjoy trying to solve interesting problems and learning about new things.
Wis: 9; I usually act before I think, usually following my gut. Planning things out long term is something I struggle with (which is why I ask my Rogue buddy for help).
Cha: 6-10 strangers, 14-15 friends; I don't get social niceties or nuances, I don't see why people around me are so thin-skinned, and I'm very blunt, not caring what people think about me. Unless those people are the few I would call friends, then I become almost the complete opposite. (I depend on my Int and Wis heavy Rogue buddy in social situations as well.)
And education is a pretty big difference between the fantasy world and now. I took welding in high school, a skill not found in Golarion. For that matter I would imagine high school wood shop would make you a pretty solid carpenter in the game world.
High school wood shop isn't actually all that -- especially not compared with a typical seven year apprenticeship where you worked full-time for the master carpenter. Yes, modern carpenters are much more productive than medieval ones, but that's more a function of technology than of education (it's astonishing what you can do with a power saw, an orbital sander, and a nail gun -- or even with modern wood glue).
But one of the things I said upthread is that most people in the modern world should be modeled as Pathfinder "experts," in part because everyone has substantially more skill points as a result of better education. Anyone with a typical US high school education could be argued to have at least a point in Knowledge (engineering) [representing pure math up to algebra, which would have made you a mathematical genius in the 15th century], Athletics [representing that PE class everyone hated], and probably at least one other Knowledge, Craft, or Profession skill (e.g. geography, history, or something more vo-tech oriented).
But also remember that a single point in a skill, plus the take 10 rules, will make you a pretty solid <whatever> in Golarion. So one could also argue that a single skill point, in fact, represents a professional level of attainment that goes entirely above and beyond the typical secondary school curriculum. Maybe only the varsity athletes actually had a point in Athletics, or maybe only the people who went to college on athletic scholarships.