Most of the shields you could imagine could be considered "light" shields. But if you really want to use a heavy shield then take the Quick Draw feat - you can sheathe your weapon as a move action, cast a spell as a standard action, and then draw your weapon again as a free action. Hopefully you can take a step back before sheathing so you don't get attacked for it.Is it worth spending a feat to do this? I'm not going to break my build am I?
Breaking your build by taking a feat that, at the very least, would be a rather nice feat even if you went for light shield? No, I don't think so. Clerics have spells and other class abilities, a single slightly sub-optimal feat isn't going to break anything.
Or did you have some very feat-intensive thing you wanted to do?
Adrian,
Earlier in this thread, there is discussion of the site http://www.d20pfsrd.com/. While it does have official Paizo information, it also has 3rd party information. So, if you are concerned about balance or go on to playing in official (Pathfinder Society) games, not all of it can be used. There are distinctions made on the site. For example, looking at Unchained Rogue, all of the Archetypes are currently from 3rd party material.
But I do like it better than the Paizo site for looking up the rules.
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Adrian,
Earlier in this thread, there is discussion of the site http://www.d20pfsrd.com/. While it does have official Paizo information, it also has 3rd party information. So, if you are concerned about balance or go on to playing in official (Pathfinder Society) games, not all of it can be used. There are distinctions made on the site. For example, looking at Unchained Rogue, all of the Archetypes are currently from 3rd party material.
But I do like it better than the Paizo site for looking up the rules.
Please, please, PLEASE, do NOT use D20PFSRD as a source for PFS games. Because the site went commercial, they wound up having to change the names of anything from Paizo that is NOT OGL, so many things from the newer books have names that WILL, not MAY, but WILL, cause most PFS GMs to look at you strangely, and, likely, cause your sources to get audited.
A better source for INFORMATION, not actual PFS legal rules, is the Archoves of Nethys, which is a non-commercial site, so they have the Paizo materials posted with the real names, show the sources, do not use unofficial information to "clarify" the rules, and mark items that are PFS legal with the Glyph of the Open Road.
From the Paizo PRD:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Free Actions
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity. Some common free actions are described below.
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If you are worried about having free hands as a cleric, there are other solutions. Most cleric spells only require a divine focus - your holy symbol. Same for channeling. Be default, this is in one hand (possibly with a shield) while the other hand has a weapon. Another option is something that gives you the holy symbol without tying up a hand.
My prefered option is this. Even without using the 'false flag' part, the fact that it's a holy symbol you don't have to hold, and gives a 1/day boost, is very nice. This also works, as does this.
This could also be an option using the neck slot, though some might disagree.
And this is an (expensive) option for a ring slot.
If you were a follower of Iomedae, there's even more options (she's the goddess of crusade vs (demons & undead)) - her holy symbol could be on a lot of things. Or there's a way to have every longsword you pick up count as a holy symbol. But I think Kiri-Jolith would be the Krynn equivalent there more than Paladine.
Many other deities have specific magic items that count, but none are great matches for Paladine.
There's a caveat to this though. While you can cast through the robes while wielding a sword and a heavy shield, this doesn't help with delivering a touch spell or things that need more than a divine focus. This is why my cleric of Sarenrae (Mishakal) typically doesn't even draw her scimitar, despite casting through the first robes I linked. Yes, you could get creative to head-but or knee someone to deliver the spell, but in my case her sword contribution is minimal anyways. And I've got spikes on the shield for better bashes and threatening. ;)
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BTW, if you are planning to do channeling to heal people (and harm undead) there's two items you really should get. The one most people know about is Phylactery of Positive channeling : adds +2d6 to your channels. Costs 11000. Problem is, it uses your headband slot, so you can't get a wisdom headband with it. Now, you're in a home game, so you might be able to combine them.
The item that's less well known is the Ring of Protected Life. It expands the radius of your channels by 5' (every bit helps) and you can select another bad guy out of your heals. Or you can blow it for 24 hours and channel as a swift action.
You do not have to give up your Wisdom and Charisma boosters to use the Phylactery of Positive Channeling. Just combine them for +50% price tag of one of them. After all, your Headband of Mental Prowess (Wisdom and Charisma) is also the result of the rule below.
Adding New Abilities
Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.
The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
You do not have to give up your Wisdom and Charisma boosters to use the Phylactery of Positive Channeling. Just combine them for +50% price tag of one of them. After all, your Headband of Mental Prowess (Wisdom and Charisma) is also the result of the rule below.
Adding New Abilities
Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.
The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
Which isn't allowed in PFS. Which is why he said in a home game you could combine them.
Clerics are fine at healing. You just don't have to build a character around it. This game is not a MMORPG where you need someone healing to keep up with concurrent damage taken from monsters or enemy players. This game has far higher value in killing the source of the damage first then after combat using a cure light wand to heal boo boos and broken bones.
The real value of "healing" in this game is in status removal. Yes, by all means use a cure spell as an emergency to keep a fellow player from dying but in almost all cases you are far better off doing something else. Clerics are great because they can not only remove status effects but they can effectively do other things.
My favorite type of cleric is the evangelist archetype. You get slightly less cleric spells and gain some bard abilities like inspire courage. I have one in a campaign I am playing and it is wonderful. He uses a spear for decent melee damage while also being a very good summoner. I am contributing in every fight with either melee damage, inspire courage or summoning. If needed I can cure or remove a status.
This is why people have suggested to you OP that clerics are not "good" at healing. It is the nature of how most d20 games operate.
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A cleric played as a healer is a complete and utter waste..... wands of CLW all round make a far better option
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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A cleric spending spell slots on cure X wounds is like a barbarian sheathing his greatsword and pulling out his backup longbow. There are times when it's appropriate/necessary, but outside those very specific circumstances, it's pretty silly and unhelpful to do.
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Playing a Sub-par Retroactive healer? Play a Life Oracle or Oradin
Cleric waste lots of Potential playing a sub par play style. Those spells are better put doing other things. Buffing, Mitigation, Control, Status Removal, Summoning, and Utility.
Remember Proactive play styles > Reactive Play styles tends to be the superior play in most games.
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Most of the shields you could imagine could be considered "light" shields. But if you really want to use a heavy shield then take the Quick Draw feat - you can sheathe your weapon as a move action, cast a spell as a standard action, and then draw your weapon again as a free action. Hopefully you can take a step back before sheathing so you don't get attacked for it.However, my obsession with aesthetics is so extreme that I'll almost certainly use a heavy shield, because I prefer the look, and incur the inconvenience of having to drop the shield or weapon in order to cast.
Most other players would use the light shield for the more favorable game mechanics.
Or just use a weapon cord to save a feat. Free action to drop & move action to grab.
I will echo what others habe said, in combat you shouldn't be healing most of the time. But out of combat clerics can handle healing with very minimal investment.
I tend to play self-buffing melee clerics, but the class is so versatile that you have plenty of good options.
Which isn't allowed in PFS. Which is why he said in a home game you could combine them.You do not have to give up your Wisdom and Charisma boosters to use the Phylactery of Positive Channeling. Just combine them for +50% price tag of one of them. After all, your Headband of Mental Prowess (Wisdom and Charisma) is also the result of the rule below.
Adding New Abilities
Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.
The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
I was responding to TheHealerYouAlwaysWanted with the actual rule for combining them. He did not appear to see or understand thistledown's comment about combining them. He also did not state he is playing in PFS.
I was reading this site
They emphasis quite a few times that Clerics are not healers, they recommend against using Healing as one of your domains, etc
Is this true?
I was hoping to make a rogue, that fell through on me, so I thought I might make a cleric who is a healer. From reading this article it seems that is not a wise decision.
Believe it or not I always find Kineticists to be the best healers in the game, mostly because Kinetic Healer has unlimited uses that places a Risk vs Reward system in place on the party instead of having a finite uses per day. You can also do a lot of other cool stuff, like actually fight.
Healing in Pathfinder is more or less considered to be optimal if it is done outside of combat. The only times you should be healing in battle is when someone is knocked unconscious or is dangerously low on HP. The reason for this, if the consensus on the paizo forums is any indicator, is that if you kill the enemy, it is not longer a threat and you can heal outside of combat.
There is a strong vein on the Forums that believe the Kineticist class to be a steaming pile of crap, but it is a class that does what it sets out to do, and really only the things it sets out to do, fairly well. You gain spammable abilities, and while this can be over-focused, it usually isn't as large of a problem as people make it out to be. You should have around 3 other people with you at all times.
Dangerously low on HP, yes. Unconscious, not unless the enemy is expected to ignore active opponents to kill inactive opponents or they're one turn from bleeding to death. Someone healed from unconscious is going to be dangerously low on HP and prone, which is in far more danger than someone out of the fight.
Except when they aren't ... Heal :)
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Except when they aren't ... Heal :)
Dangerously low on HP, yes. Unconscious, not unless the enemy is expected to ignore active opponents to kill inactive opponents or they're one turn from bleeding to death. Someone healed from unconscious is going to be dangerously low on HP and prone, which is in far more danger than someone out of the fight.
It's a good spell. No one is doubting that.
But what about the levels before you can actually cast it?
That's like saying "Don't worry, by level 20, you'll become immune to Mind-affecting effects!"
Or just use a weapon cord to save a feat. Free action to drop & move action to grab.Most of the shields you could imagine could be considered "light" shields. But if you really want to use a heavy shield then take the Quick Draw feat - you can sheathe your weapon as a move action, cast a spell as a standard action, and then draw your weapon again as a free action. Hopefully you can take a step back before sheathing so you don't get attacked for it.However, my obsession with aesthetics is so extreme that I'll almost certainly use a heavy shield, because I prefer the look, and incur the inconvenience of having to drop the shield or weapon in order to cast.
Most other players would use the light shield for the more favorable game mechanics.
That's true. The one advantage to Quick Draw is that you can go from casting to attacking instantly - so you can leave a weapon safely sheathed until the moment you need it.
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Another thing to consider are the Channel Foci from the Adventurer's Armory.
The cleric can use the focus as a holy symbol (whether activated or not), though if it is a worn item rather than a held item she must touch the item with a free hand.
Consecrated Weapon: Consecrated weapons may be of any type—swords, axes, masterwork, mithral, and even magical—and function appropriately. When activated, the cleric charges the weapon with positive or negative energy (as appropriate) so it deals extra damage when it hits a target. This functions like the Channel Smite feat, except the additional damage is equal to half the cleric’s channel energy damage (the target makes a Will save as normal, based on the cleric’s channel energy DC). The weapon remains charged with this energy until it successfully strikes a creature or 24 hours pass, whichever comes first. Creatures other than the cleric are able to use the charged weapon and this ability.
Sanctified Shield: A sanctified shield may be any type of shield (including bucklers, tower shields, and even magical shields). When activated, a sacred shield adds a +1 sacred (if positive energy) or profane (if negative energy) bonus to the wearer’s Armor Class. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the wearer is struck in combat, whichever comes first. Creatures other than the cleric are able to use the charged shield and this ability.
So, wielded, can be used as a holy symbol, in addition to getting a special ability.
Also, another thing to consider is the Channel Ray feat from the Ranged Tactics Toolbox,
Channel Ray
You can focus your channeled energy on a single target.
Prerequisite: Channel energy class feature.
Benefit: When you channel energy, you can project a ray from your holy symbol instead of creating a burst. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit an unwilling target; your target is then affected by the channeled energy as normal and receives a saving throw. You need not make an attack roll to affect a willing creature with the ray. The ray has a range of 30 feet per channel energy die, and its save DC is increased by 2.
Conductive weapon cant be used like Channel Smite since channels dont rely on melee or range touch to hit.
Can conductive weapon utilise more than 1 ability in the same round...eg a channel and a domain power?
It doesn't really say one way or the other, but I doubt a DM would allow more then one effect at once because it would be pretty over powered. The only thing that might somewhat speak to that question is that you can only use it once per round.
In that case channel smite + conductive weapon > channel ray + conductive weapon
It says specifically for channel smite that it is a swift action through any melee weapon, leaving you room for a domain power on top (ie the 1/round).
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For non-pfs, there's also the Reliquary option. Turns the weapon/armor into a holy symbol and counts as an altar for casting consecrate/desecrate.
You'd have to either take the feat or work out a cost for someone else to put it on the item though.
For PFS, the feat is banned. Strangely, having a Reliquary item is not banned, but there's no clear route to getting one.
On a side-note:
A healer may not seem to be very effective, but if he can keep his team playing at all times at full strength, he is much more valuable than another damage dealer.
The healer conundrum is that if you need one, he has to be good at it. As long as you don't need one, the infamous wand will do. Or any spell granting fast healing.
(I haven't played in a campaign yet, in which 1d8+1 heals carried the day, except low levels :))
The Healing domain is not very attractive, but it allows to use your domain spell slot for healing, since you cannot use those slots for spontaneous cure spells.
For a healing cleric I would rather pick a domain which plays with the rules, like forcing re-rolls. That can prevent more than you can heal with the slots (and being more fun).
That's correct. Also if you take quick channel you can channel as a move action:
IMO probably better to have Channel smite + Guided hand + conductive weapon
This now opens things up to more caster cleric types who have dumped STR but need a Plan B.
With a decent damage dealing favoured weapon or one that has decent reach, things could get very interesting!
WIS to hit... Weapon damage + channel damage + domain ability :))
The key is the 2 feat cost so the domain ability has to be good to make it worthwhile.
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Yes it can be very powerful if you build it right! My level 9 evil Warpriest uses a whip with a Dex build. I took Weapon Finesse (Dex to hit) + Agile Maneuvers (add Dex to CMB instead of Str) and then I spent money on Mithral Full Plate and Mithral Heavy shield so my AC is 25 and my saves are decent as well. I can do an ass load of damage at a 15 ft reach with my whip!
That's correct. Also if you take quick channel you can channel as a move action:IMO probably better to have Channel smite + Guided hand + conductive weapon
This now opens things up to more caster cleric types who have dumped STR but need a Plan B.
With a decent damage dealing favoured weapon or one that has decent reach, things could get very interesting!
WIS to hit... Weapon damage + channel damage + domain ability :))
The key is the 2 feat cost so the domain ability has to be good to make it worthwhile.
Weapon Finesse allows you to use Dex for CMB for finesseable weapons, like the whip.... Agile Maneuvers is for the Dex build using a non-Finesseable weapon.